How slack was the mini fifth when you rode it?

Yeh I lose myself all the time...ha ha ha

Nah the red safety line then....why I ask is when I rode my new kites it was real slack relative to the front lines. As I got near 20 or so sessions the red safety line is now taught as the front lines have stretched ....giving progressively a better bottom end and closer to the tuning I would normally have. Hence why I didn't adjust the back lines.

107kg, Christ, yeh 15 knots on a SB for sure, you are a big boy!! You'd fly a lot of wings to the edge of the window quickly with that weight, reckon you might want a more grunty kite that sits back a little more, like an evo in the north range anyhow...or a lithuim in the Airush range...if you get my drift, no pun intended. Or definetly play around with shortening those back lines a bit to keep it in the right part of the window...

weight and style of kite is something really underestimated and not talked about enough I reckon. Hence why light guys can't take the evo or the lithuim etc very high as they can't get the thing to the edge quick enough to spill air. Its like putting a tractor engine on a scooter.

Robert,

I have the 2011 rebel which is as you say not the best for DWers, After my one session on the 12m dice it's way way better than the rebel for waves and DWers which is 70-80% of my riding. I feel it doesn't have the bottom end the 2011 rebel had but that's ok as long as I can get 15 knots out of it I am happy. I think I will get better bottom end out of a wider board than the 6" wam as well.

Hoping the 10m will be my Perth 18-22 knot kite, similar to the 9m rebel which I used 90% of the time over the last three years

For me the Dice are at the top of my list, want to try a 2014 reo to see if it compares or has the power to pull my chunky arse around.

If you want better low end get the park. Iv rode my dice a few more times an it's definitely lacking in the low end department. There is definely a gutless feel but I'm hoping more time on the kite will change my technique from the parks an get some better low end

Well I have ridden the 8,9,11 and 12.

One thing is apparent is that the wings characteristics remains constant throughout the sizes, which was something I wanted to make sure for similar reasons you talk about.

Also what is apparent is the kite to me performs best on 22m lines and as a 4 line set up, loses a lot of low end on the fifth line setup, more grunty on 4.

Also the factory setting I think purposely so, allows the front lines to stretch over time giving a better low end the more you ride it (see above).

Sweet size? That depends. For me I love the 8m in the surf as you can fang it around corners and ride aggressively down the line etc as per most kites in the smaller sizes. But I'm only 75kg, the 80 to 85k guys are on 9m for this.

The 12 is doable in the surf, but you gotta hold back a little and becomes more a park and ride sort of surfing kite.

For boost and float my fav is the 11m. 12m takes a little more edging and technique and the larger wing pulls you more downwind (one thing is apparent I reckon there is a 1.5m gap between the 11 and the 12, the 12 looks a lot larger in the sky next to each other).

The 11 still allows vertical lift off but gives you that canopy for float and hangtime.

But that goes for all the kites I have had. My fav was the 11m edge for this, the 10m edge was good but not the same. My 11 rebel was the best for jumping.

So the sweet kite is the one that suites your purpose.

Lack of low end observations I don't concur with, although I'm not doubting the observations made as how you see it, is how you see it, but all I can say is my comparison is with an edge, which will kill most kites low end per size if used correctly and I can't see a problem at all. There is a knack to it. Once you get dialed in it flies upwind to your mark.

I have seen some remarkable things by an 85kg rider on a 12m on a 134 NHP low end wise (not the most efficient board), but he is a damn good rider.

Yeh Park, Dice, or the airush Wave would be the kites I'd be doing a comparison demo with.

But you know the other day (and not related to the dice) I was out at Avalon with two other blokes. One on a 12m lithuim and an airush cypher, one on a 10m BWS Noise and a Laluz TT and me on a 150 Mako and my zephyr (yes I was lit of my tits) all on different gear, all having an absolute blast. I watched with envy as the cypher guy (robbie) can ride toeside both ways due to his wind surfing background and was killing it...man wish I was goofy! Great guys, great wind, great surf...all good.

All the gear works well in the hands that suite it. Try heaps of kites, that's what I did. Even though I get a lot of flack I say stick it up your ass, because how do you know until you have tried different stuff?

Yeh I don't believe that, even the best front lines will stretch. But maybe they will have a certain stretch before they stop so you don't have to keep adjusting like the old lines. On the 2012 bar I was tuning after every 5 rides or so to keep that 5th line a little slack when full powered.

In regards to the red safety line - Eppo check if it's twisted itself. We had a guy here last season who rides Evo's on the Quad Control bar and he was forever doing loops & spins in one direction. His red safety line had twisted and twisted itself so much that it was now loaded instead of his front lines.
I would be my bottom dollar that your new lines haven't stretched that much, that quickly. If they have you've either got a dud set or you're doing something wrong!

Drew

If it's the safety line, just take the ring off of the end, pull it through the iron heart and run it through your hands from where it attaches to the front lines. It'll pull most of the twists out and you can just put it back in.

Or just start spinning the other way.

I quite like this kite in 4 line mode when unhooking. You gotta go with this kite for a while and dial it in. Feels a little squishier than the Vegas but its more than up for the job.

Just try it!

I had a quick spin on an 8 mt dice in ankle biting waves yesterday. I must say, this is a very nice kite. Super smooth, easy to loop, and plenty of low end. Generates speed pretty damn quick, shuts down when you want it to. Waves were way too small to feel the drift qualities, so I can't comment on that. The kite was set up in 5 line mode, I think if I had a kite like this I would run it as a 4 line for simplicity. I would put this kite down as a winner. Still love my Trx's, but this kite is VERY good.

Falling to the side? Explain?

You won't be disappointing bud. Flew them up north recently. I've been flying rebels for 4 years now so I'm very familiar with north.

I don't know about the other sizes however the 9mtr took me all of 2 minutes to dial in. Very easy to fly. I did however feel the power was a touch less to a comparable sized rebel but then again it wasn't honking so I didn't get to test it out under nuking conditions. Could be a different story up in the higher wind ranges.

If I hadn't just bought new rebels I wouldn't hesitate scoring a couple :)

Okay ta terry.

Great to here. It will never jump like the edge though, one aspect I miss. But you can't have it all and it jumps good enough to not be too bothered.

Well a little...lol

Consider a zephyr for your light wind kite hey, it has some similar charactistics to the dice, don't ask me why, but it sits in the same part of the window giving you that constant feedback. That is the principle reason I went the dice, would have rather stayed totally with ozone, but....

light wind kites are designed as such, just scaling up a kite and making it bigger in my mind doesn't always work. And as rob from ozone explained the other way to, hence no plans on smaller zephyrs, which I understand.

Shame, if he could do it, I'd buy the zephyr smaller zephyr sizes today!! Out today on the flat, crew on 12m (dices actually) and myself and my bro on the zephyr powered to the tits but having a ball. One guy on the 12m dice was throwing down some awesome dark slides and fully powered back roll back loops...sweet to watch.

Ah that makes sense now. Sweet. Yep for ultra light winds the edge/ dyno and aspect are A1. I get ya now on the evo kite. Cool.

Must say I am exploring the unhooking paradigm of the zephyr right now and its a blast. Although I probably look as stupid as I feel. Ultimately my aim is to unhook the dice in the waves, as lets face it it makes so much sense when you think about centre of gravity, body positioning etc. I'm not after wake style trickery (s bend will be all thanks to blind maybe at a pinch) too old, too slow and two kids! But it does give you also an appreciation for what those guys do and what incredible riders they all are.

Two styles impress the hell out of me

1. Full blown wake style leave nothing at the door kiting

2. Arial work on SBs strapless...wow!

That's another thing the 13m edge lacks unless you are a super duper immortal rider. Yeh the looping (i presume you mean mega looping, downloops and all that jazz no probs) on the edge as well, its possible but don't get it wrong as I have done and given my lower intestine a free purge. Bowels squeaky clean....