Fez, why bother trying to be helpful and convince those who just think it their given right to argue a point and just bullsh!t their way around the subject. Great you have highlighted, but some just cant resist being clever with an answer to your points raised
I wouldn't ever want to be involved in an accident and have some of the comments placed on this, or other forums thrown back at me

Gorgo said..
I

Personally I don't give a **** about right of way rules. They are entirely irrelevant for the type of craft we are on and the type of riding we do (and I do know the rules. I have a number of boating licences that say I do.) They work fine for boats in channels and commercial boating. They sort of work for yachts in races (but not really when you see a tacking duel.

What matters more than any stupid rule is simply avoiding everybody else and not ruining people's day. It's not hard to do.

What a strange statement.

When you have 30 craft going in and out at a beach, and people try to go upwind, their paths of travel will intersect sometimes. Knowing that port (here it is those heading out) are the ones who change their course a little to avoid those on starboard means we DON'T have the last minute "oh **** gotta avoid that guy" ................and maybe they both turn the same way and whack!

That's why knowing this one simple rule is important. You need the rule to avoid ruining people's day. Imagine if we drove on the left or right of the road (whatever u feel like) and the rule was "try to avoid hitting people" - it would not work. That's why we have the port gives way to starboard one.

Fez said..
I agree Mineral1,
Not worth bothering anymore with some of the immature responses from some.
At least I brought to their attention and hope the message is taken on board.
It was interesting to see how widespread the lack of knowledge is.
Cheers

It was never going to end well.

Poleys vs kiters is the oldest recurrent theme on this site.

You started 2 identical threads, one in poleys section, 1 in kiters section.

Then you're mightily surprised that in each thread the home team has a go at the other.

Meanwhile the issue has been flogged to death over the last 10 years but you're just discovering it and 'bringing it to everyone's attention'.

Meanwhile the people reading these threads are not the selfish idiots causing issues to begin with - those guys just do it, don't spend hours on forums reading about it.

Next time either talk to them on the beach, or go-pro it so we can see whether you weren't just freaking out and taking 'evasive action' when you could have passed fine. Kiters pass pretty close and don't clash lines 99% of the time, without proof who knows the real situation?

Mark _australia said..

... and the rule was "try to avoid hitting people" - it would not work.

Most of Asia does just fine with that rule.

Fez said..
I posted the same thread in windsurfing section so those that don't know rules could be informed of the rules as well. Your comments here seem to be the majority of the rift between windsurfing and kites if you bother to read any of it properly.
"but you're just discovering it". Idiotic comment
"Meanwhile the people reading these threads are not the selfish idiots causing issues to begin with - those guys just do it, don't spend hours on forums reading about it."
What a hypocritical comment indeed. 4253 posts take a good hard look at yourself.
No respect.

Oh damn, Dave! He totally went to the post count smack down! That's stone cold right there!

Mark _australia said..
....

When you have 30 craft going in and out at a beach, and people try to go upwind, their paths of travel will intersect sometimes. Knowing that port (here it is those heading out) are the ones who change their course a little to avoid those on starboard means we DON'T have the last minute "oh **** gotta avoid that guy" ................and maybe they both turn the same way and whack!

....

The whole port/starboard thing is entirely meaningless. The rule is more simply put as "Turn right". If turning right means turning upwind then chances are you won't be able to turn at all. That's ok because the rider going the other way should turn right and downwind and all is good.

Problem is there is another rule which supersedes that one, where you both hold your course to avoid having a collision.

So you're blasting along, going to pass close to each other and you've both miscalculated and misinterpreted the situation then you're well and truly ****ed. The skilled guy on the raceboard is holding his course. The less skilled guy on the twintip is turning downwind and cutting across the path of the other guy. Meanwhile windsurfer boy has finally got on the plane and is blasting through at a full speed at the beach because he can't gybe and wants to crash into the shallow water.

None of the above takes into account the effect of variations in power and lulls and variations in performance and maneuverability and skill. You get a lull in a boat and you just sit there. You get a lull on a sailboard and you get a wet bum. You get a lull on a kiteboard and it can be all of the above, or you're fighting to keep your kite in the air, or fighting to avoid bonking somebody downwind with your kite or numerous other things. Conversely, the lull stops the sailboard but the kiter keeps on planing by as though nothing has happened.

It is far better to project your course and plan your actions well in advance of conflict. Personally I prefer to use my superior speed and power and maneuverability to get out of the way and not get into those positions in the first place. Shouldn't everybody do that?

Certainly learn the rules. But don't expect them to do anything particularly useful. They would be better to be called guidelines.

You know that no yacht is going to give way to a sailboard or a kiter, they shouldn't have to. Why are you riding in a place where you have to call right of way? Why are you ever within several line lengths of a yacht in the first place?

What is more annoying is the hypocrisy of the rules crowd. You guys pretend that there are a set of rules that actually apply in all cases and that you all obey them rigorously.

All of this begs the obvious question, why are you guys all riding in such close proximity of each other at speeds that increase the risk of collision? Why follow a rider all the way to the beach and act all surprised that they turn and actually make the turn and want to ride back out again? Or follow close behind them and act surprised that they turn to head back in again? Oh. I forgot. You're on windsurfers. You can't turn.

Fez
420's worlds 1981
470's Goodwill games
18'ft skiff world champs 1996 2000
Italian Olympic Sailing Coach 1996 2000
AIS Coach
Sydney Hobarts

I think he knows what he's talkimg about

flyingcab said..

Where you are the "home team" and all the other kiters actually agree with Fez...

All of them eh? Not the impression I'm getting. As stated in my first reply, it's rude to be rude and it should be dealt with on the beach at the time. The rest is preaching to the converted.

No
I learnt to windsurf with Fez a long time ago. Wooden boom soft sails.

The Kite guys should use the strip in front of Carters Island, the Windsurfers used to use this before the tree line became too tall for Windsurfers but still fine ( perfect for Kites ). And it doesnt matter if the tide is high or low. If it wasnt for the trees we would all be there, much flatter water and much, much longer runs. The only reason we moved up to Pelican Point is because of the tree height. Honestly Carters Island is perfect. Problem solved !! Now lets get back to the life !!

Ricardo1709 said..
Im a bit surprised this has turned in to a contentious issue port and starboard tacks are really basic to understand and usually you'll know if you have the room to pass on whatever tack you're on but if its going to be too close for comfort then yeah port gives way to starboard,if someone doesn't take the right option avoid them and ask them if they are aware of what they did or didn't do and give them the heads up-pretty basic issue to resolve instead of the poley v teabag crap.

spot on.

Ricardo1709 said..
Im a bit surprised this has turned in to a contentious issue port and starboard tacks are really basic to understand and usually you'll know if you have the room to pass on whatever tack you're on but if its going to be too close for comfort then yeah port gives way to starboard,if someone doesn't take the right option avoid them and ask them if they are aware of what they did or didn't do and give them the heads up-pretty basic issue to resolve instead of the poley v teabag crap.

Totally agree with Ricardo and Fez! I come from a sailing back ground and done some windsurfing, now loving to kite as much as possible. Basic port and starboard rules (which should be known by all water craft users) help take away the "rabbit in the headlight" situation two people coming together and neither knowing who should give way. However In many situations common sense should prevail.eg. Keep clear of a guy on a wave, in a area known for speed runs, if someone is out of control or obvious beginner it just makes sense to give them more room as they are going to find it harder to change course.

At sailing nationals you'll often get 100 boats around a start line before a race, before the starting sequence, people use a lot of common sense and not strictly follow (or enforce) the rules as guys might be taking a pee off the boat, eating lunch etc and your not going to call Starboard on the guy when you can see he is not ready to change course! But at the same time, if would be rare to see someone on Port tack just cruising about not looking for other boats, because in all the chaos there are basic rules to follow! Just like Kiting, in general common sense is key as we are not generally racing, but the end of the day some basic rules are there to keep us safe and have fun!

And if you do hit someone without following these basic rules, your at fault regards of pleading ignorance just like the road laws!

But did you really need to take action or were you being paranoid? Or bloody-mindedly sticking to the rules?

I kite at pelican pt.and have heard enough of the **** kiters making bad moves and pole dancers aiming at kiters.do we need an accident before we grow up.repect all water users

Any how, there is value in Fez's original comments and I am now practicing the correct right of way.