Lessons Learnt on self launch in blasting winds ..

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Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
2 Nov 2012 11:52am
Plummet said...

i don't like the anchor idea. there is potential for it to get torn out of the ground. then you have a powered kite draging a pointy spear down the beach at high speed.



Wombat holds 500kg's of upward pull. They use it for 4x4 recovery, tethering planes in storm conditions etc. so the likelihood of it being pulled out the ground is pretty low to zero. It's not a dog anchor. I'm guess is that the strap/chickenloop would give way before the wombat did but the backup is to have a second strap tethered to the leash so if the strap breaks, it gets leashed.

"Strength:Holds up to 1200kg depending on model selection, soil condition and installation technique."
Hunter S
Hunter S
WA
516 posts
WA, 516 posts
2 Nov 2012 9:52am
Saffer said...
Plummet said...

i don't like the anchor idea. there is potential for it to get torn out of the ground. then you have a powered kite draging a pointy spear down the beach at high speed.



Wombat holds 500kg's of upward pull. They use it for 4x4 recovery, tethering planes in storm conditions etc. so the likelihood of it being pulled out the ground is pretty low to zero. It's not a dog anchor. I'm guess is that the strap/chickenloop would give way before the wombat did but the backup is to have a second strap tethered to the leash so if the strap breaks, it gets leashed.

"Strength:Holds up to 1200kg depending on model selection, soil condition and installation technique."


I think the key words are; "depending on model selection, soil condition and installation technique."
eppo
eppo
WA
9792 posts
WA, 9792 posts
2 Nov 2012 10:15am
I'm all for someone using it before they comment. Hence I question whether Paul 1 has actually tethered in high winds?

So has someone used the wombat?

Also as for insurance, are you saying that if you cause a death spiral and you are attached to the kite you have more claim to insurance than if connected to a tether system. Either way you may be farqed as I see it? I suppose the insurance would state 'normal' usage, so you may just be right here.
sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
2 Nov 2012 1:40pm
Somehow the 500kg is a strange statement, drill it into a soft dry sand sand dune and it could pop at 25kg, drill it into wet hard packed sand and 500kg may be valid but you are still hoping you hold everytime you hook into it.

Getting dragged on hot launch is a great experience, makes you respect the kite , keeps you on your toes for every future attempts, reminds you why there is a safety and how to use it.

Saffer said...
Plummet said...

i don't like the anchor idea. there is potential for it to get torn out of the ground. then you have a powered kite draging a pointy spear down the beach at high speed.



Wombat holds 500kg's of upward pull. They use it for 4x4 recovery, tethering planes in storm conditions etc. so the likelihood of it being pulled out the ground is pretty low to zero. It's not a dog anchor. I'm guess is that the strap/chickenloop would give way before the wombat did but the backup is to have a second strap tethered to the leash so if the strap breaks, it gets leashed.

"Strength:Holds up to 1200kg depending on model selection, soil condition and installation technique."


Paul1
Paul1
QLD
1011 posts
QLD, 1011 posts
2 Nov 2012 5:03pm
eppo said...
Dear me paul1, so you are suggesting it is best to have the death spiralling kite attached to yourself as the fixed point? I think we may need to work through your logic here although it seems logic and your argument have nothing to do with each other.

And yes I do highly rate wishy, the guys a damn madman and someone who goes out in nuking winds regardless of the nature of this post.

I do see merit in your argument from the perspective one needs to learn to self launch even in high winds.

I'm saying that tethering is a safer option. If the kite wants to death spiral as you say, Id rather it be tethered to a fixed object rather than myself. By tethering also you can minimise the chance of bridals etc catching and causing the death spiral in the first place.

I'm intrigued to find out where you have any room whatsoever in developing a decent point of view from here. Go on, what ya thinking now mate? Lol



I think you fancy yourself a bit too much mate, you try to belittle people, when clearly, you are far from the legend you think you are. My personal choice is to self launch/land as I reckon it is a lot safer and a skill that should be learnt by all newbies including yourself. I self launched/ landed in 30-35 knot winds today on the Goldy with zero dramas. Launching / landing in 35 knots is no different to doing it in 15 knots if you have the correct size kite. A kite manned by someone who knows what they are doing, is safer than having a kite attached to an anchor point/strap that you have zero control over that can break at any moment, but hey, live in your delusional Eppoworld and I hope you don't get cleaned up by a runaway tethered kite in the not too distant future.
eppo
eppo
WA
9792 posts
WA, 9792 posts
2 Nov 2012 4:45pm
at least I'm constructive and my comments aim to help. You seem to just bag whatever someone says. One could easily apply your judgement of me to yourself seeing as though you are the expert at self launching and everyone else's method is wrong. I personally see sense in both methods and think at least my argument is balanced. Just wondering what it feels like to come across as lacking the ability to analyse and think. Only you must know that feeling I presume.

so all newbies and the poor fella all by himself at horrocks next time it's at 35 knots just self launch. Forget everything everyone has said cause Paul must know what he's talking about. It's obvious just follow his carefully laid out argument it's a marvel to witness.
Katz
Katz
VIC
131 posts
VIC, 131 posts
2 Nov 2012 8:10pm
Hey I'm with Eppo on this one.

The basic question is how to get a kite launched single handed in a strong wind. And if the advice is use a tethered launch (with lots of good advice in the thread how to do it properly) and make sure you can self launch as well, well f'cd if I can see the problem with that.

Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
2 Nov 2012 8:18pm
sebol said...
Somehow the 500kg is a strange statement, drill it into a soft dry sand sand dune and it could pop at 25kg, drill it into wet hard packed sand and 500kg may be valid but you are still hoping you hold everytime you hook into it.

Getting dragged on hot launch is a great experience, makes you respect the kite , keeps you on your toes for every future attempts, reminds you why there is a safety and how to use it.

Saffer said...
Plummet said...

i don't like the anchor idea. there is potential for it to get torn out of the ground. then you have a powered kite draging a pointy spear down the beach at high speed.



Wombat holds 500kg's of upward pull. They use it for 4x4 recovery, tethering planes in storm conditions etc. so the likelihood of it being pulled out the ground is pretty low to zero. It's not a dog anchor. I'm guess is that the strap/chickenloop would give way before the wombat did but the backup is to have a second strap tethered to the leash so if the strap breaks, it gets leashed.

"Strength:Holds up to 1200kg depending on model selection, soil condition and installation technique."





Every method has its pros and cons. I've seen someone do the conventional self launch, have a line hook around a wing and get catapulted before they could pull their QR.

Realistically the only safe launching and landing is assisted, anything else imposes some risk which can be mitigated in a number of ways. Some can also relate to the kite itself. As an example, I'm happier self launching and landing my Rebels using the conventional method, perhaps because of the 5th line vs the tethered method I used to use with my Rev2's.

These days I don't often kite alone so self launching or landing is not required.
pirrad
pirrad
SA
850 posts
SA, 850 posts
2 Nov 2012 8:08pm
sandrhino said...
I would imagine that if in the event that some bystander was injured by an out of control kite having used the this meathod of launch you could well be considered negligent. No one is in control of the kite for 15 to 20 secs while you run back to the car or whatever and take control, seriously doubt your insurance is going to cover you.
learn to self launch and land properly by an instructor bud. Rhino is a pain in the ass but he is right, been an instructor in Brisbane for 5 years.

Cheers guys, weekend is here and the winds up!




Self launched and landed older style c kites for years and only started using tethered launch last year with bow kite,my opinion is that it is far more controlled, lines set at 90 deg. to wind,only a fiew steps to roll and set kite, return to bar and hook in, several steps down wind and kite goes straight up.
Unless you are going to let the kite drag/slide there is more area required and foot work needed to self launch.
IMO.
eppo
eppo
WA
9792 posts
WA, 9792 posts
2 Nov 2012 6:37pm
No you are all wrong. Wtf are you thinking!! You need to self launch it is THE ONLY WAY!

Christ give me a break. I know a lot of experienced guys who don't post on this forum, because of situations like this and its a crying shame cause these are the guys people should be hearing from. Also a lot of them are retailers and run kite schools so they need to be careful not to piss people off for obvious reasons. Again these are the guys we want to hear from. I'm always learning off these guys even after 13 seasons.

Me, I don't give a toss what people say. I also rarely lose an argument its a disease I have.

I'm sure Paul is a great guy, these are only words so I mean no offence personally. I'm sure if I was in sunny Queensland we'd have a beer and a laugh about it.
Weta
Weta
WA
893 posts
WA, 893 posts
2 Nov 2012 9:34pm
Having lived on the Goldie for 5 years; Noosa for 1 summer and WA for 20 years i think the wind at 35 knots in WA is alot stronger than the humid wind in Qld at 35 knots. Shoot me down Queenslanders but a cranking seabreeze in WA has to be experienced to appreciate where i'm coming from.

For me personally i am comfortable self launching & landing until the winds really cranking. I have never tried a static launch so cant comment but would definitely be looking at it as an option if i was in Dave the original posters situation.
Wisha
Wisha
SA
255 posts
SA, 255 posts
5 Nov 2012 1:26am
Lets go a hybrid system??

...set-up, tether kite, run down and hold kite in launch position to check lines and bridle. If all looks good, return kite to the ground in prep for a drag launch (though it wont drag, as you know exactly where to put it as you held it up on the window to check the lines).

Return to the fixed object, un-tether bar, but connect your harness instead. 'Drift launch' kite, untether self ??

1. No down time running back to kite (seems to be the issue of the 'drifters').
2. If **** goes bad, you aint going anywhere, plus you got a chance to check lines and know the exact angle to stop kite dragging (issue for the 'tetherer').
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
5 Nov 2012 11:41am
with the amount of people who are too far upwind when you launch their kite I can see why a tethered launch is popular.
seriously though as long as it works for you it's all good.
I even saw our local priest using his own method of self launching the other day. He puts sand behind the middle of the leading edge (4 strut kite)with the kite on it's back and launches like the old c kite style. It works but everyone down wind gets covered in sand.(yes I know he should be downwind of them)
eppo
eppo
WA
9792 posts
WA, 9792 posts
5 Nov 2012 3:55pm
Damn thats a new one. Never seen that. Sprayed by holy sand can't be a bad thing. Lol
KiteBilly
KiteBilly
VIC
90 posts
VIC, 90 posts
5 Nov 2012 7:24pm
I've often thought that the launch is kite surfings weakest point, easy to do on a wide open beach in a stable breeze, can be frickern scary on a narrow beach with beach goers around, kids, obstacles etc....

In A bar downwind set up......What if.....you could somehow walk the bar all the way up to the kite...... launch the kite yourself with the kite straight down wind from you and maybe slightly off to one side out of the power window, steering and power lines run back through the bar, you control the kite buy tilting the bar forward to slow the rate of launch and back towards you to increase the rate.....letting the lines flow, just like feeding a winch on a boat......then the chicken loop hits the bar and you hook in. depower would have to be below the bar....

Dunno...but surely it could be refined by the manufacturers.
fingerbone
fingerbone
NSW
921 posts
NSW, 921 posts
5 Nov 2012 8:27pm
Looks like this topic really needs someone who has used the ( wombat )
KiteBilly
KiteBilly
VIC
90 posts
VIC, 90 posts
5 Nov 2012 10:50pm
yep got that a wombat would do the same thing but would be hard to train/carry/feed and carry back to the car....did i skim the wombat post part...let me know.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
5 Nov 2012 8:13pm
seems an easy one to me, if you want to feel safer and dont want to risk damaging your kite then a tethered launch is the way to go, if its nuking then use a bit of sand on your wing tip as a bit of added security whilst walking back to kite , a wombat is fine with horizontal pull but vertical would be a bit iffy,not sure what people class a blasting wind ,but what we get here i and the locals wouldnt dream of self launch and land
dave......
dave......
WA
2119 posts
WA, 2119 posts
5 Nov 2012 8:15pm
At 35 knots, real solid wind not gusts, Im on my 5m 2007 Waroo, I check my safety and self launch without the donkey dick in. Use the right kite for the right wind conditions and theres no increase in danger. self launches are getting the angle right, and can be safer than someone who doesnt know how to assist.

Many kitesurfers dont understand how to launch perfectly with an assist, so a tether to an object that wont move may be an option in strong winds to increase their safety.

Love the SH%^ fight....... Eppo, relax dude....


eppo
eppo
WA
9792 posts
WA, 9792 posts
5 Nov 2012 9:23pm
I'm cool, I'm cool. Just didn't like his attitude Dave saying self launch is the only way. It is not. But I do agree that everyone needs to learn to self launch in lighter winds first. I use both so see advantages to both. The wombat, mm don't know about that one. Do you carry this as well as your electric pump down the beach????
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
6 Nov 2012 7:46am
on a side note.

I have a special bar/line set for extreme conditions. it only comes out 28+ knots. Last thing I want is a breakage in those high winds.

I also have crispy kites for those winds too.
brooksy
brooksy
WA
498 posts
WA, 498 posts
7 Nov 2012 1:03pm
If I see another dimwit self-launch or land on a packed beach or even a beach with a few people walking past I think I'll cut their lines.

Don't care if you kill yourself but if you injure another bystander we all get punished by bans, insurance premiums and licensing. Amazed how often I see this!
pirrad
pirrad
SA
850 posts
SA, 850 posts
7 Nov 2012 8:01pm
brooksy said...
If I see another dimwit self-launch or land on a packed beach or even a beach with a few people walking past I think I'll cut their lines.
stupid comment

Don't care if you kill yourself but if you injure another bystander we all get punished by bans, insurance premiums and licensing. Amazed how often I see this!
point taken

Answer; i'll continue to tether,self land/launch as i allways have rather than try and educate someone to assist me who knows nothing about it, the amount of times i've assisted someone else who has a assistant that nows nothing about what there doing sh!ts me to tears..........cant sit and watch, have to offer some guidance and wish the f they werent on my local.

waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
7 Nov 2012 8:54pm
eppo said...
I'm cool, I'm cool. Just The wombat, mm don't know about that one. Do you carry this as well as your electric pump down the beach????


lol.
eppo
eppo
WA
9792 posts
WA, 9792 posts
7 Nov 2012 9:28pm
Didn't see ya out today pete, wind kicked in a bit towards the end?
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