puppetonastring said...

Your 'developed design' No 1 is pretty impressive IMO.

Definitely a much better proposal, very surprised that KA did not take it forward as an option to be voted on

Perhaps a poll should be held on SB and brought to KA's attention

@ Kiterboy
Sixteen different people, 17 including myself have responded to this thread. AKSA/KA membership is a couple of thousand or so. Some of these comments have come from non-members.

Since when has Seabreeze been the official voice of AKSA/KA? If you're a member, have you actually contacted AKSA/KA to express your concern or have you just had a whinge here?

Members were advised via email of the process, but none of the designs have been chosen yet.

Kiterboy,

you're missing my point. In an organisation of a couple of thousand kiters, 17 people have commented here.

For the sake of this conversation, let's say AKSA/KA has 2000 members (personally I think it's more, but that's just a gut feeling).

Whilst over 1200 crew have viewed/read this thread, as a percentage of the potential AKSA/KA membership, what figure does the 17 voices who have expressed their disappointment at the process here on SB, actually mean?

By my way of thinking, there are only 16 contributors on SB who aren't happy.

HBBear said...
Kiterboy,

you're missing my point. In an organisation of a couple of thousand kiters, 17 people have commented here.

For the sake of this conversation, let's say AKSA/KA has 2000 members (personally I think it's more, but that's just a gut feeling).

Whilst over 1200 crew have viewed/read this thread, as a percentage of the potential AKSA/KA membership, what figure does the 17 voices who have expressed their disappointment at the process here on SB, actually mean?

By my way of thinking, there are only 16 contributors on SB who aren't happy.

To answer your question, IMO the percentage of potential AKSA/KA membership who have expressed their disappointment at the process that KA has chosen can be worked out as follows:

It is a proven fact that for every customer that complains there are at least 26 unhappy customers who will not bother to complain.

Using this theory there is at least 416 people who are unhappy about the process that KA used (16 in this forum x 26). And don't forget the other forum regarding this subject “Kiteboarding Australia needs a Logo!” Did you count them too? And I bet most other viewers who have not voiced their disappointment do not feel as passionately about the logo choice of our national sporting body and possibly have no view either way otherwise there would have been more support for KA regarding its choice. You could measure KA support regarding this subject in a similar way.

You estimate there to be 2,000 members. This means that this forum has indicated that potentially 21% of its member base are unhappy and IMO most of the others are either unaware or have no view either way. Personally I think that the member base would be closer to 1,000 members.

Please do not take us in the wrong way. We all appreciate the work done by KA's Board but I think that in this instance they have made a mistake with a very important decision that concerns many kiteboarders and KA has done little to rectify this mistake. This message has been clearly expressed by a significant percentage.

JOYRIDER said...
whats with all the colours and multi layering, shadowed, shaded BS.

a real logo is something that will print black and white and can be made into a simple screen or sticker for its members to wear or put on their car, board or other object.


enough of the colours and flashy fonts.
design something simple.

I disagree. Some simple logos work well but what about well known logos that are not so simple. They still print stickers, put them on caps, uniforms etc and they work well.

HBBear said...

tazza101 said...

HBBear said...
Kiterboy,

you're missing my point. In an organisation of a couple of thousand kiters, 17 people have commented here.

For the sake of this conversation, let's say AKSA/KA has 2000 members (personally I think it's more, but that's just a gut feeling).

Whilst over 1200 crew have viewed/read this thread, as a percentage of the potential AKSA/KA membership, what figure does the 17 voices who have expressed their disappointment at the process here on SB, actually mean?

By my way of thinking, there are only 16 contributors on SB who aren't happy.

To answer your question, IMO the percentage of potential AKSA/KA membership who have expressed their disappointment at the process that KA has chosen can be worked out as follows:

It is a proven fact that for every customer that complains there are at least 26 unhappy customers who will not bother to complain.

Using this theory there is at least 416 people who are unhappy about the process that KA used (16 in this forum x 26). And don't forget the other forum regarding this subject “Kiteboarding Australia needs a Logo!” Did you count them too? And I bet most other viewers who have not voiced their disappointment do not feel as passionately about the logo choice of our national sporting body and possibly have no view either way otherwise there would have been more support for KA regarding its choice. You could measure KA support regarding this subject in a similar way.

You estimate there to be 2,000 members. This means that this forum has indicated that potentially 21% of its member base are unhappy and IMO most of the others are either unaware or have no view either way. Personally I think that the member base would be closer to 1,000 members.

Please do not take us in the wrong way. We all appreciate the work done by KA's Board but I think that in this instance they have made a mistake with a very important decision that concerns many kiteboarders and KA has done little to rectify this mistake. This message has been clearly expressed by a significant percentage.

Tazza,
In one sentence you say it's a "proven fact" there is a 26:1 ratio of unhappy punters to each one who actually complains.

Is this "proven fact" an urban myth or what? If you can show us where this idea comes from, I'll take it as a reasonable comment, but it does sound like one of those "theories" we've all heard before - you know, the ones that start "they say..." (and we all wonder who is "they"?)

If you go back to the other post, that was started by a shop/school owner, & SB sponsor, NOT by AKSA/KA. That thread has had 30 people comment on it - perhaps we've got 46 kiters unhappy.

We all know that SB has a tendency to fall into a bitch fight - honestly not trying to start one here FWIW - just think that if crew are seriously upset, this isn't the place to express serious anxiety/concern. Of the 46 'concerned' kiters, how many have honestly & seriously contacted AKSA/KA about those concerns?

IMO, given the tendency for SB to become a bitch fight, deep down, who could take comments posted here (about anything) as "serious" debate?

It's based on proven research and while the ratio of 26:1 may change a little over time and vary in different demographic evironments, it is commonly taught by universities/TAFEs, many other learning institutes and even internal training programs used by companies when covering the customer service side of management. I think that one of the more recent studies was conducted by TARP - a company that specialising in assisting companies and organisations to become more profitable and efficient by improving customer service. BTW TARP is used by many of the world's leading corporations.

It is also taught in other countries that have similar societies to Australia. Here's proof from the University of Florida

edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hr005

Scroll down to the “Handling Customer Complaints” paragraph. It's about halfway down the page.

Is this reasonable enough to take my comment seriously?

kiterboy said...
HB Bear
You're saying an open forum for kiteboarding is not the place to discuss issues affecting kiteboarders??

I dont think he saying that kiterboy.
IMO this forum is a great place for kiters to express their opinion, get feedback, generate differing opinions etc etc. You cant get that wider view by sending a personal email to the KA board. I think the message behind Humphreys posts are to do MORE than just discuss the issue here.
From my experience on the AKSA & WAKSA c'tees I can assure you that a couple of vocal voices on SB does not effect policy making decisions very much at all. C'tee members watch & listen but; as someone else says; its a very small minority of possible members that use the forum and its often the extreme & the 'knock-it-whatever-it-is" types. (with all due respect - love you all)
If you want to play your part in the decision making of your KSA & ultimately KA but dont have the time or commitment to jump aboard the c'tee then do it by email direct. It is ALWAYs appreciated & ALWAYS ranks way higher in c'tee discussions. SB bun-fights are taken as far more removed from any valid decision making process.

It is a shame one of the state reps hasnt responded here with some background detail of this issue BUT pls remember that these volunteers put in an unbelievable no. of hours and they only have so many to play with. I know I often found it difficult to reply to SB posts even when I wanted to. But as a priority, very often, it just didnt get it up. And I wasnt squeezing in time between a full time job, growing family etc.

The response I received when I queried the board (eMail direct) re the 7 day open period for submissions was that this is the policy of 99Designs. The board did, specifically, query this one aspect - thinking like most here that it was too short - but were advised by 99Designs that in their experience it produced the most & best responses when limited to this time frame??? Sounds more like commercial expediency to me??? but if you take the 99Designs path then you have to accept their expertise.

astrostan said...
Why don't they just pay the ****cers (experts) at 99 designs to come up with a few logos that the committee can discuss and choose a design from?

ummm - I think thats what they are doing ?????

I have to agree with getting a professional designer in. You get what you pay for.

I was in the design industry for 12 years worked many things.

The real problem is the hit and miss nature of "putting it out there" to 99 designs and similar websites. Everyone has a mate or a cousin who knows how to do graphics or use photoshop or illustrator.

The real issue arises when these guys try do do something more substantial and with more meaning. You really need to think about all of the variables when designing. Its just not a pretty thing on paper...

Maybe Laurie should run a comp... Designers come out of the wood work for a new kite or board.. I sure did...