Just "bear off" a little.

which kite??

Assume it's below the bar depower? The trick with jam cleats is to take the tension in the rope and then pull it upwards. If you still struggle you can double it back away from yourself but still need to keep tension on the rope. Also worn jam cleats are always harder to uncleat and the carbon ones they use on kites do wear significantly.

I have Airush kites with thr Ronsan cleats and I love them, never have any issue adjusting while on the move.

If well powered sometimes it is necessary to raise the kite towards 12 o'clock to take some pressure off the lines, or just push the bar away momentarily while you adjust the depower leash.


If using below bar cleat, maybe you are riding too powered up in the first place ?

unless you're adjusting it too often sitting down in probably the best option - leaving you too pull the depower line with one hand above the cleat and the line below the cleat with the other.

I recent had a "fun" self rescue after adjusting the depower, I pulled the rope using it's loop and the knot attaching the loop to the rope gave way. I was left holding the loop in one hand the bar in the other and watched a the rest of the bits and pieces being flung around, as the line had just been released from the cleat.

So best not to adjust under load!

Hi Adrenal

I've ridden a few different kite brands (no affiliation to any). The F-One Bandit 3 depower is the best i've used, a simple above the bar system with one rope, pull on it and cleat it off to shorten front lines, pull on it and let it out to power up. No colour coded straps so you can do it with your eyes closed. It never sticks and is at a good height to adjust on the fly. The rope is a bit thicker than most below the bar sytems and the cleat a little larger. It seems sturdy. The centre line is PU covered and after 18 months appears to have suffered no wear. The only thing i'd change is the quick release on the chicken loop which is a velcro loop. The only time i've really had to pull it for safety as the kite looped off down the beach after a line snapped, I had to tug on it two or three times before it let go. Maybe I should have checked it more often (or ever)

Are Bandit 4 bars the same as the 3 does anyone know?

Hi Adrenal,

The Core, North and Ozone trim systems are all above the bar and I can adjust up or down easily whilst remaining powered and on the fly. I don't need to ease off or even slow down.

Below the bar trim systems are notoriously difficult to use and many you have to let the bar go, use two hands and then make adjustments. It's a flawed concept IMHO because the angle you need to pull at doesn't allow much leverage and the rope goes through a 90 degree turn usually without a roller which adds significant friction even when depowered.

Try some other kites to see if they have characteristics you like. You can also change some bars to suit the kite you like.

Cheers,

DM

I put a pulley on one of my older kites that I bought from a boating store and this worked well.
Everyone seems nervous to modify their kites but - if it works you wont swear everytime that happens.

I had the same problem, the above the bar depower cleat was giving me the royal shts, replaced it with one of those buckle things with two handles -- pull one handle to power up, pull the other handle to depower.

Easy as pie to do on the run now

adrenal said...

Nebbian,
'Buckle things with two handles'? Think I've seen them but can't remember on which kite
Tell me more! What brand? Where to get?

Refer to 1.40min on following video:

Hey Adrenal,

I just chucked this together for you real quick and included a couple of other bits for amusement cause it was on the same clip.

Day was light wind (10-12knots). Kite is Core Riot XR LW (Light Wind), board is Cardboard Tempo 135 custom. Excuse the hurried production, it was rushed together.




DM

adrenal said...

AKSonline said...

Hi Adrenal,

The Core, North and Ozone trim systems are all above the bar and I can adjust up or down easily whilst remaining powered and on the fly. I don't need to ease off or even slow down.

Below the bar trim systems are notoriously difficult to use and many you have to let the bar go, use two hands and then make adjustments. It's a flawed concept IMHO because the angle you need to pull at doesn't allow much leverage and the rope goes through a 90 degree turn usually without a roller which adds significant friction even when depowered.

Try some other kites to see if they have characteristics you like. You can also change some bars to suit the kite you like.

Cheers,

DM

DM,
Missed your post. What you say accords with my experience. I'll have a closer look at the above bar systems. Thanks for that.

Rad Lad, thanks for posting the vid. Does anyone know if the double handle center line depower thing can be bought separately?

What Darren said, and his experience perfectly mirrors mine. I prefer above the bar trimming systems, but prefer cleats, not straps. The plastic buckles used by all brands are not a part thats designed for the loads imposed by a powered up kite and there is a history of breakages of these buckles.
Yachts use cleats to adjust ropes under load, they never use plastic buckles as far as I know??

Below the bar trimming is a flawed concept, something that is reflected in the 2011 bar test in the latest issue of KBM. Its just not a sound ergonomic design. Sure people will attest to it working ok for them and I think you can get used to anything, but some things just work better than others, and above the bar trimming like the Ozone or North cleat system is by far the easiest to use.

You do need to understand how a cleat works and how to adjust it under load, basically you need to pull down in line with the load then let it out to lengthen or "power up" the front lines, and to "depower" or shorten the front lines you just pull down in line with the load and the cleat will "bite" and hold the line automatically.

Ozone use a special line designed to bite into the cleat without damage to the trim line, grey amsteel gets damaged in cleats easily and should not be used as such.

ezza said...

Hi Adrenal

I've ridden a few different kite brands (no affiliation to any). The F-One Bandit 3 depower is the best i've used, a simple above the bar system with one rope, pull on it and cleat it off to shorten front lines, pull on it and let it out to power up. No colour coded straps so you can do it with your eyes closed. It never sticks and is at a good height to adjust on the fly. The rope is a bit thicker than most below the bar sytems and the cleat a little larger. It seems sturdy. The centre line is PU covered and after 18 months appears to have suffered no wear. The only thing i'd change is the quick release on the chicken loop which is a velcro loop. The only time i've really had to pull it for safety as the kite looped off down the beach after a line snapped, I had to tug on it two or three times before it let go. Maybe I should have checked it more often (or ever)

Are Bandit 4 bars the same as the 3 does anyone know?

G'day Ezza , yes the bandit 4 bar and lines are the pretty much the same as the bandit 3 , main diffrence being the airlite aluminium bar rather than the carbon bar and the plastic knobs on the chicken loop release & the end of the depower strop rather than the webbing that the 3 had. I'm not a fan of these because i have seen the knob rip off along the stiching without releasing the loop. Depower cleat , lines same as the 3. !!!! just a note keep an eye on the line leaders where they attach to the bar, the carbon bar wears them very quickly !!!! I have upgraded to the airlite bar on my b3 and use the b3 loop on the b4 to solve these problems.

axis said...

Hi Adrenal,

I have been riding below the bar depower since the end of '06. Not sure what you ride but if the set up is like the Slingy below the bar depower, do not have the rope out all the way - it is a b!tch to pull in while riding and you need 2 hands.

Ride with it pulled in a bit like in the below pic (well maybe a touch more). Then it is easy - you may need to bear off slightly but it works fine. No issues in any wind and never felt the need to go back to an above the bar depower.

I usually set my front lines on the longest knot and the back on the shortest to compensate for having this pulled in a bit.

Hope this helps.

I'm surprised Axis is happy with this bar. When contemplating kite purchase a year or two ago, the ride I had on the slingshot was ruined by a bad bar experience. The line would get jammed in the cleat. Pulling it down to activate it requirede enough force to take the load off the chicken loop. Combined with the pathetic donkey dick, it resulted in accidently unhooking about 1 k out to sea. While it wouldn't have been that much of a problem, the dodgy attachment of the safety to my harness snaped, I lost the kite and had a VERY long swim. After my previous joys with a Link, I just can't see myself going for anything made by slingshot again. (Not to suggest all SLingshots are bad - they clearly aren't or so many people wouldn't be riding them. I just can't see myself riding them again.)

Of the depowers I have used, the good ones have been North, Ozone and Eclipse - all above the bar
The bad have been Slingshot (below the bar) and Genetrix (above the bar but using two different bizarre strap systems which were hard to tell apart and seemed to jam all the time).
I won't even talk about some of the bad systems on my old C-kites from early last decade. Times have moved on, and boy am I glad about that

bandit3 said...

ezza said...

Hi Adrenal

I've ridden a few different kite brands (no affiliation to any). The F-One Bandit 3 depower is the best i've used, a simple above the bar system with one rope, pull on it and cleat it off to shorten front lines, pull on it and let it out to power up. No colour coded straps so you can do it with your eyes closed. It never sticks and is at a good height to adjust on the fly. The rope is a bit thicker than most below the bar sytems and the cleat a little larger. It seems sturdy. The centre line is PU covered and after 18 months appears to have suffered no wear. The only thing i'd change is the quick release on the chicken loop which is a velcro loop. The only time i've really had to pull it for safety as the kite looped off down the beach after a line snapped, I had to tug on it two or three times before it let go. Maybe I should have checked it more often (or ever)

Are Bandit 4 bars the same as the 3 does anyone know?

G'day Ezza , yes the bandit 4 bar and lines are the pretty much the same as the bandit 3 , main diffrence being the airlite aluminium bar rather than the carbon bar and the plastic knobs on the chicken loop release & the end of the depower strop rather than the webbing that the 3 had. I'm not a fan of these because i have seen the knob rip off along the stiching without releasing the loop. Depower cleat , lines same as the 3. !!!! just a note keep an eye on the line leaders where they attach to the bar, the carbon bar wears them very quickly !!!! I have upgraded to the airlite bar on my b3 and use the b3 loop on the b4 to solve these problems.

Good point Bandit3 about the line leaders. I replaced those a few months ago on this bar. It was pretty simple with rope bought from a marine supply store but something to watch out for. Apart from that it's a great bar :)