People new how to instruct once.

The thumbs for Kitehard's last post and pfr's post, give a clear picture of what the kite communitiy thinks about AKS suggestions.

Hi everyone,

Now that I have your attention! Thanks for all the helpful comments and posts.

Just a little off topic, but the kiteschool was there long before 95% of kiters currently using the beach and is also the reason most of those kiters are there now. But anyway...

Seeing as I have your attention, my proposal is we do not cordon off the area, it is never our intention to do so. We are part of the crew too, but I did want to highlight the fact that there is a problem which needs to be addressed.

The fact that Pinnaroo is a newbie beach (no surf, wide sandy beach and clean wind) and no one is considerate of the newbies or instructors has pushed things to the point where there has now been an accident where someone has been injured.

Some things need to change and we all need to be on the same team to achieve the outcome which works for all of us.

Here is what I am asking local kiters for:-

1/ Roll your lines when you come in and move your kite to the area in front of the dunes if you aren't using it for more than 10 minutes. Most days, the whole beach is covered with kites from the dunes to the water line.

2/ Don't leave your boards on the beach. Move them up with your kites.

3/ Don't launch your kite with a student or instructor in your wind window

4/ Don't ride your kite with a newbie in your wind window.

5/ Have a little respect for newbies and give them some space.

6/ Don't setup in a newbies wind window. We start everyday before anyone is at the beach and continually have to move up or down the beach to keep our wind window clear of people. This is eventually impossible and leads to avoidable incidences like yesterday.

7/ If you see something about to go wrong, word up the offender. I can't do it alone. If everyone pitches in and doesn't leave it to someone else, we can change behaviours.

8/ Try riding through the flags at Mullas and see if anyone yells at you. We need the same at Pinnaroo for people doing the wrong thing.

9/ We have never wanted anything other than harmony with the local beach users. There are only two or maybe three guys from the original crew who were there before the school that still use Pinna's and they seem to get it, why doesn't everyone else? All the rest are there because of the school.

10/ Have some respect for the learners. We have lots of ladies learning now too and they all deserve a break so cut them some slack. As I said in my last post, the kites are blood red warning colours so keep clear of them.

So many people complain of newbies clobbering them with kites over their lines. This is only happening because you are inside their wind windows. Think about it!

A little help from everrone would be greatly appreciated. We're doing all we can to make it better and more enjoyable for all users. How about you all pitch in and do your bit too. We would appreciate the help.

Cheers,

KH

Just my 2 cents, I would have thought (regardless of who was there first) that it should be up to the business to do it's best efforts to not inconvenience the general public, not up to the general public to do their best to not inconvenience your business. Whilst asking people to mutually work together to have a safe beach is not unreasonable, some of your recommendations seem to rely a lot on the public avoiding causing you trouble rather than the other way around.

^^ Just a reminder there's also a jetski zone there plus a bit of a wind shadow (and no one to watch you pull your big tricks except the odd kid / family)
AAARGHH!! We've run out of space!!

Kitehard, I think your DNAs are more a 'Strawberry Sorbet' red don't you? ... LOL!!

Gstar said...

wavehogger said...

...I have to say that at least at Pinarroo we have a controlled environment which is nonexistant at Scarborough.

Elaborate please! I've kited Scarborough for 8 years and find your statement confusing!

I find this confusing as well?? I kite both spots daily (wind permitting) and Scarborough definitely doesn't seem as crazy as Pinna's on its day. (I do think Pinna's gets over populated which contributes to crazy)

tailz8 said...

Spacemonkey,

Thats like building a housing development next to an international airport thats been around for 20 years, then when people move in they complain about the noise...

I see your point however, the kiteschool never owned the beach and the public always did a bit different IMO.

nebbian said...

Gstar said...

Here's your solution. Gets my vote anyway.

Not sure I agree with this, where you want to put the kite school is where the windsurfers launch and land from. I do both, and I'm a lot happier being around learner kiters when kiting than when windsurfing.

Perhaps this is what Kitehard is intending?

Nebbian has a point but perhaps the area should look more like this with the capable kiters staying upwind and the begginers getting the entrance to the beach!



This would still allow the better riders to hog the shoreline and bust-a-move for their kite-bi@ches (south of the missing fence) but give a wide berth to the learners. And lets remember the experienced guys are quite capable of going upwind as far as Hillary's Harbour without any drama.

And like some of the other post'ers added i do kite here also so this does affect me.

Kitehard said...

dave...... said...

Instructing 10m upwind of others with any learner is crazy, especially if they were there first. This super qualified instructor should have known better.

Hi Dave,

Wave hogger was incorrect with his information. As exciting and sensational as his story sounds, it is not entirely correct. I would kindly ask that if you weren't there, to refrain from making your comments as you are working off heresay, and 2nd hand information.

Kind regards,

KH

What was the distance then Darren? I completed my IKO with you in 2005-2006. I heard from a number of sources it was about 10m tops 15m. The instructor made the student launch too close period! Try all the damage control you want. 6m kite brought it through the window in around 20 knots and got lifted.... Let me guess around 15m tops 20. Re-read your IKO book, what's the downwind safety zone.

OK I edited my original post to a general statement, but someone still got injured and was this through best and safest practice?

+ one on toddws new graphic. ^^^^

mattyjee said...

Pinnaroo is a pretty **** place to kite anyway. I think that the only reason people tend to group there is because of the schools existance. If the school moved, then by the next 5 years that place would be full of people too...

I must admit to only ever kiting there once, it wasn't very pleasurable till everyone had pissed off and we started racing (Well sort of, if you can call 4 a race)

Anyway during my visit I found it was similar atmosphere to other locations with schools. I think the attraction for newbies that have been through the lesson process is they feel a sense of security if they venture back to where they learnt.This mentality is the back lash from the big free lesson with every purchase push which started up a few years back, those free lessons soon turned into "yeah come down mate we'll keep an eye out for ya".

The result is alot of fresh kiters at the same location, which in turn are launching each other probably trying to not inconvenance the advanced riders. Due to lack of experience and other circumstances their probably not doing the launchers checks. If I'm launching an unknown, I will always check their lines arn't crossed the bar is extended and held on the correct angle for launch.If they don't know what way to walk and expect me to move around with the kite, that's when it raises alarm bells. I believe the launcher can prevent a lot of the incidents that happen.

I think Darren and his team have handled this pretty well. The protocol's followed would be similar to what you would get at a mining company after an injury. It might be an over reaction intially, but as the school and locals work through it I'm sure there will be a compromise to suit everyone. It's great some locals both poley's and kiters are being proactive with the arial graphics. I don't agree with cordoning off the beach and water physically with cones, but segregation and maybe a movable free standing sign placed either end of lesson area lesson explaining potential hazards to the public would be appropriate.

Just my observations and opinions guy's, not intended to offend but more give idea's good luck.

Gstar said...

I see your point but, switch the 2 kite zones around so the school is north of the point and downwind of experienced kiters. Learners are going to drift downwind all the time and it would be prudent to let the guys/girls that can stay upwind have the upwind spot. Don't you agree?

I do agree that learners will drift downwind, it's just that windsurfers often don't understand that they will hit lines if they go upwind of a downed kite. I'd rather run over some lines on my kiteboard (with 2cm fins) than run over some lines with my windsurfer (25cm fin, it will snag the lines and cause major problems).

I also drew the zones based on my experience of what actually happens at Pinaroo -- you don't see too many experienced kiters walking all the way up to the point, they all launch at the end of the path.
It's the newbies who walk up to the point.

As it's my local I'm concerned with making it work properly for everyone...

Hi Guys,

AKS has carried out a review on our processes internally and come up with some new ways of operating to improve the safety of our students and reduce the potential for accidents, but it needs to maybe go a step further.

I propose a meeting with concerned kiters from Pinnaroo to come and have a chat with us this afternoon after kiting to see if we can come up with some changes to make the beach safer. Unfortunately, wind direction, beach layout and council designated zones make moving the school impossible. If there was a way to move the school to a more appropriate location, we would have done that long ago.

We will provide a few coldies and hopefully if there is some action that we can take, we'll be able to make the beach safer which has been our intention since day dot.

We finish work at 6pm so if you want to just have an informal chat come see me anytime I'm not busy, or wait until about 6.15 when the school trailer should be a bit quieter and we can have an orderly meeting.

Cheers,

KH

Hi All,

I kite semi regularly at Pinaroo - more when I was beginning.

AKS IMHO run a really tight school & I would recommend them always. Darren is great. Will always help. Gives good (very very often free) advice on technique. Lend a bit of line when your bridle breaks!

The suggestions the AKS move are silly. Pinnas is a good learning spot.

The main problem at pinnas are that there are quite a few Beginner - nearly intermediates kiters who fancy themselves excellent. They kite too close to the newbies & give them a scare and then they do their half a#$d moves to show off in close. In an accident between newbie & intermediate kiter the fault is always the guys with the better skills. He/she should have stayed clear.

Pinnas is a learners beach. You wouldn't really want to kite there for any other reason. It's not flat (the knee breaking chop is famous) & there are no waves. It is actually a bit of a crap spot to kite.

I think that some cones on the beach seem like a good idea. Not for hard & fast enforcing of allowable locations, but to indicate the learning area. Downwind for newbies, up wind for those who can stay there. I personally sail up near the horse/dog beach anyway. The wind is better up there - no disruption from other kites. But I agree no one should ever ever think they own the beach.

Also to those making comments from QLD & NSW - WTF??? You guys have seemingly no idea of local conditions. The suggestion that AKS go North shows why you should stick to your own pond. The wind gets really squirrelly north near the ski area for some reason. I've been trapped out there as I'm sure most who've sailed there have experienced. You can't see this on GOOGLE MAPS!


Sad to hear that AKS had a bad incident. Hope the guys are ok.

Stay cool Darren. My guess is most of the negative posts on here are people who haven't seen you guys operate.

Maybe kite boarding should just be banned completely - that would be much safer...