GypsyDrifter said...

Mr Dinnison said police chased the alleged offenders and four youths had been taken into custody.

This sounds serious. I bet they are sorry they did it now. I recon at the very least they will get some,.. ummm counselling,.. or even some home detention maybe.
Well no. That's a bit over the top. Maybe just some counselling will do first up and they could look at some home detention if they do it again.
In fact, what they will probably get is a social worker to talk to them and see if they have any unresolved issues that we can help them with.


This is the whole problem isn't it?
Naughty undisciplined children who were never taught that if you do something wrong there will be a real penalty, growing into naughty undisciplined adults who know there will be no real penalty when they do something wrong.

We can't expect anything better really while we listen to the jelly bellied bleatings of those who say that any form of physical discipline might "damage the poor child for the rest of their life" and all they need is a good talking to.

There are definitely some wacko's out and about.

But what the hell is with the 'allegedly' nonsense that reporters are obsessed with now?

allegedly threw a stake through a windscreen.. - it didn't sodding get there on it's own steam.

Do you think those youths got done for attempted murder or a stern letter home to their parents and no tv for a month?

We had a bunch of kids start a big fire on our street just recently which threatened a bunch of houses and a nursing home. How bored are they, or how bad is family life to do stuff like this for kicks?

Introduce guns into the equation and then the bashing becomes a shooting.. not my idea of a solution.

It's niave to think only the good guys will be packing a shooter. Or that shooting someone in self defence will always be looked upon that way in court.

We are extremely lucky to live in a society where guns are rare and not every peanut with a frequent flyer card can pick them up at Kmart.

Lets keep it that way.


BTW - I have actually been held up at gun point (literally staring down the barrel of a sawn off rifle) and that doesn't make me any keener to see them in the hands of 'good citizens'. The less out there the better.




EDIT: Can't agree on the smacking (yes i have spanked my kids - but can count on one hand the number of times). Yes more discilpine is needed tho.

What is missing is discipline AND positive examples from the parents of these little snots.

Spanking or not they grow up witnessing their own parents acting with little or no self discipline or respect for anyone/anything. They soon follow in those thongsteps.. Spanking is not going to change that one iota IMO.

I have seen plenty of the worst parents out there dishing out plenty of wallop but providing a pizz poor example in the way they treat others and live their life.

A welt goes down in minutes.

Watching your parent's behaviour lasts a life time.

you don't have to beat your child to discipline them.

funny that.

getfunky said...
They soon follow in those thongsteps..

Gold

I agree kids dont need to be beaten to be disciplined, but the fact is there are alot of youth out there with no discipline at all who need some direction in life that wont include property destruction or harming others and if they do then they need to be held accountable.

The Squirrel and The Grasshopper

THE REST OF THE WORLD VERSION


The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building and improving his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed. The shivering grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.


THE END
________________________________________

AND NOW, THE AUSTRALIAN VERSION

The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed.

A social worker finds the shivering grasshopper, calls a press conference and demands to know why the squirrel should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate, like the grasshopper, are cold and starving.

The ABC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper; with cuts to a video of the squirrel in his comfortable warm home with a table laden with food.

The Australian press informs people that they should be ashamed that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so while others have plenty.

The Labour Party, Greenpeace, Animal Rights and The Grasshopper Housing Commission of Australia demonstrate in front of the squirrel's house.

The ABC, interrupting a cultural festival special from St Kilda with breaking news, broadcasts a multi cultural choir singing 'We Shall Overcome'.

Bill Shorten rants in an interview with Laurie Oakes that the squirrel got rich off the backs of grasshoppers, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the squirrel to make him pay his 'fair share' and increases the charge for squirrels to enter Melbourne city centre.

In response to pressure from the media, the Government drafts the Economic Equity and Grasshopper Anti Discrimination Act, retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The squirrel's taxes are reassessed. He is taken to court and fined for failing to hire grasshoppers as builders,
for the work he was doing on his home, and an additional fine for contempt when he told the court the grasshopper did not want to work.

The grasshopper is provided with a Housing Commission house, financial aid to furnish it and an account with a local taxi firm to ensure he can be socially mobile. The squirrel's food is seized and re-distributed to the more needy members of society - in this case the grasshopper.

Without enough money to buy more food, to pay the fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, the squirrel has to downsize and start building a new home.

The local authority takes over his old home and utilises it as a temporary home for asylum seeking cats who had hijacked a plane to get to Australia as they had to share their country of origin with mice.

On arrival they tried to blow up the airport because of Australians' apparent love of dogs.

The cats had been arrested for the international offence of hijacking and attempted bombing but were immediately released because the police fed them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in custody.

Initial moves to make then return them to their own country were abandoned because it was feared they would face death by the mice.

The cats devise and start a scam to obtain money from people's credit cards.

A “60 Minutes” special shows the grasshopper finishing up the last of the squirrel's food, though spring is still months away, while the Housing Commission house he is in, crumbles around him because he hasn't bothered to maintain it. He is shown to be taking drugs.

Inadequate government funding is blamed for the grasshopper's drug 'Illness'.

The cats seek recompense in the Australian courts for their treatment since arrival in Australia.

The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old dog during a burglary to get money for his drugs habit. He is imprisoned but released immediately because he has been in custody for a few weeks. He is placed in the care of the probation service to monitor and supervise him.

Within a few weeks he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.

A commission of enquiry, that will eventually cost $10 million and state the obvious, is set up.

Additional money is put into funding a drug rehabilitation scheme for grasshoppers.

Legal aid for lawyers representing asylum seekers is increased.

The asylum seeking cats are praised by the government for enriching Australia's multicultural diversity and dogs are criticised by the government for failing to befriend the cats.

The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose.

The usual sections of the press blame it on the obvious failure of government to address the root causes of despair arising from social inequity and his traumatic experience of prison.

They call for the resignation of a minister.

The cats are paid $1 million each because their rights were infringed when the government failed to inform them there were mice in Australia.

The squirrel, the dogs and the victims of the hijacking, the bombing, the burglaries and robberies have to pay an additional percentage on their credit cards to cover losses, their taxes are increased to pay for law and order, and they are told that they will have to work beyond 65 because of a shortfall in government funds.



THE END
From ggfs thread

All good and well
But the parents have already stuffed up!
So what do we do with the freaking idiots out there that are trying to kill us now..?


What kicks to the head,
Star picket through a window,
Bashing a person up with their own walking stick
until it breaks.
Is That Not attempted murder!?

To me it is.....

What has this to do with guns / violence / law & order etc...
Well everything and nothing - what a message
http://www.wxpnews.com/VG9SO6/101207-Global-Development

or the posted link (if it works??)

www.addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250&winname=addthis&pub=flixxy&source=max-250&lng=en&s=gmail&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flixxy.com%2F200-countries-200-years-4-minutes.htm&title=200%20Countries%2C%20200%20Years%2C%204%20Minutes&ate=AT-flixxy/-/-/4d0075272afab2fc/1/4d00752aeb1a2441&uid=4d00752aeb1a2441&email_vars=CustomVariable%3DStatistics%2520come%2520to%2520life%2520when%2520Swedish%2520academic%2520superstar%2520Hans%2520Rosling%2520graphically%2520illustrates%2520global%2520development%2520over%2520the%2520last%2520200%2520years.&ui_cobrand=Flixxy.com&CXNID=2000001.5215456080540439074NXC&tt=0

Wow - what 200 years has seen.
Still the bottom of the chart is represented by ignorance/violence and poverty.

So it is not a long bow to draw to say We are in a transition time. A country (possibly China) will get fed up with liberal -ism - where the advances represented by the film clip are getting threatened (ie the majority are effected).

... and instigate a technical policing solution - the guilty until you prove you are innocent approach - you use technology to prove it was not you.

Then the opportunity of anonimity a city can provide to do anything to anyone with a fair chance of staying anonimous will rapidly disappear.

In the mean time - ahh the vexed issue of court rulings and community expectations......

I think our approach will change to a degree when 1) you fight - someone requires any service then you pay - for ambulance, police, hospital or do boot camp time of equivalent value. Then you get to go to court.

The police (firemen, ambo's etc) have a right to not be threatened with a fight or assault every time they go to work on the streets. Assault service crew - Do boot camp time then get to go to courts. (I recall a doco (Perth I think) where a policeman called to stop a fight outside a pub was king hit permanently injured (mobility issues / brain damage) and the man how did it was let off and the doco' showed the footage of who did it. I was in a state of disbelief and the community pays for this act of malicious bastardry).

A technical solution will pop-up. Soon I hope - in the mean time why do I feel the court rulings are often giving the community the bird??

One word "Mandurah"....bogans will always fight or cause trouble its in there blood....

GypsyDrifter said...

Do I say this in jest ? Maybe not!
I hate feeling vulnerable and it's only getting worse.

is it getting worse...?

There's two bad stories and they are bad.. but bad things happened in the past too. As soon as people say it's getting worse, then the natural inclination is to get rid of whatever you're doing now and replace it with

a) some hippy solution involving no punishment and lots of talking

or

b) some neo con solution that involves everyone having a gun all the time and being able to shoot people for littering

There's a massive assumption that crime has always, is currently and will always get worse...

ginger pom said...

GypsyDrifter said...

Do I say this in jest ? Maybe not!
I hate feeling vulnerable and it's only getting worse.

is it getting worse...?

There's two bad stories and they are bad.. but bad things happened in the past too. As soon as people say it's getting worse, then the natural inclination is to get rid of whatever you're doing now and replace it with

a) some hippy solution involving no punishment and lots of talking

or

b) some neo con solution that involves everyone having a gun all the time and being able to shoot people for littering

There's a massive assumption that crime has always, is currently and will always get worse...

yes its getting worse much worse

getfunky said...

Introduce guns into the equation and then the bashing becomes a shooting.. not my idea of a solution.

It's niave to think only the good guys will be packing a shooter.

GF not always true.

An American county / town / something about 20yrs ago made it mandatory to have a firearm and do a defensive course. BUT if you had a criminal record above a certain level you could not have a gun.
Unlawful possession of a gun gave you a massive prison sentence straight up (unlike here where a drug dealer can have a loaded pistol and get about $500 fine.)


Serious crime dropped 90-something percent overnight as none of the crooks were game to do anything cos they'd get shot by the nice people. Most of them left town.

Interesting experiment anyway

getfunky said...

Introduce guns into the equation and then the bashing becomes a shooting.. not my idea of a solution.

Depends on who gets shot.

choco said...

18 years of age 2 years compulsory military service.....this is where they will learn discipline and respect.

The generals want nothing to do with the misfits and useless underclass in Australian society.

Solutions.....

If adults are committing crimes then I think Australia has a reasonably good criminal justice system. Of course we read about some idiot bashing a pregnant woman to death and then getting a slap on the wrist because his mother let him drink Jim Bean and smoke pot when he was 3 years old and as a result he has the mental age of a 1 year old when it comes to killing people. Politicians introduce mandatory sentencing laws and three strikes and your out. Then we hear about a bloke getting 5 years in gaol for stealing a banana from Coles.

If kids are doing this then what do you do? Clearly parents should take some responsibility. If the parents can't take responsibility because they are useless or the kids are out of control then remove the kids from the parents and place them in appropriate care. Australia has been down that road before and look where it got us 40 years later?

I don't know what I'd do if I or someone I cared for was badly hurt or killed by someone and then the criminal received what I thought was an inappropriate punishment but I'd be tempted to take the law into my own hands.