Interesting .The piccy of uncle sam with the hook in his mouth should be replaced with a broken down junkie with a t shirt saying 'The west " on it with a syringe of oil hanging out of his arm .Gen Y and I have no recollection of or knowledge of the 1973 oil crisis nor would they care .We are heading for a train wreck .
people scoff at me for having an electric motor on my bicycle ,I use it for just about all of my personal transport and I do all of the shopping for my cafe on it I fill my car up once a month .Who am i to lecture tho becuse even doing that my consumption of oil and everything else far outstrips that of the average Indian or chinese pperson (or african).I t seems the only motorised form of personal transport that most people approve of are 2 tonne SUV's that you even drive to the dunny in , that guzzle cheap fuel and clog roads and that if one ventures out on a bicycle one must look like cadel evans and travel in a pack and sipp coffee somewhere along the ride

Middle eastern wars aside oil is a finite resourse controlled by a few .The Chinese and Indians aspire to a western lifestyle and want more oil to fuel their desire .We are wasteful of it and treat it like there is no tomorrow and our whole economy depends on its regular and cheap supply .We are fools for kidding ourselves for so long that things would just go on forever as they have for the last 20 years.

FlySurfer said...

and that's with 20% ethanol
Australian Fresh orange juice @ $9
Lamb @ $50/kg
Pork @ $30/kg
Milk @ $5/ltr
FedEx/DHL/Aust Post will double their fees
Air travel cost and security will double
Bus/Train travel up 50%

Everything could easily double, if the West starts a war with Iran.

The Iranians have done nothing illegal.
The Israeli's want a war with Iran, because they want to be the only nuclear power in the middle east.
Israel has a very disproportionate influence on the west through media, political and economic interests.
The Israeli's and western secret service agents routinely murder Iranians, conduct cyber attacks, steal their money, cripple their infrastructure, sanction them, foment uprisings and give rebel groups arms... imagine the Indonesians giving RPG's to Aborigines, to kill Aus police officers.

When the US and CCCP had nuclear weapons they didn't and still don't dare fire at each other (MAD).

The Israeli's have nothing to fear, cos they're armed to the teeth.
The Iranians have been attached, invaded, had dictators imposed on them, and yet they haven't been an aggressor since the Persian empire (5th century).

Even in the worse case scenario and some how they manage to construct a Uranium fissile bomb, the yield would be low and they would have to be completely insane to use it as they would be assured complete destruction.
If the target was Israel or another middle east country... well they'd still be around.
Israel could have full diplomatic relations with all middle eastern countries if they respected their 1967 boarders.
The bottom line is the US wants oil contracts, and control over the Earth's energy and to preserve it's reserve currency status, Israel wants to be the only nuclear power so it can do whatever it wants.
Iran wants to develop so it can prove a better standard of living, be secure and the leading middle eastern country.

If the US/Israel get their war it's going to cost us, yes you too, a lot with no possible benefit.

How will it cost us? Everything that requires oil, will jump in price. The Iranians only have 1 card to play... and that's do everything possible to make the war too expensive.
The Russian's, and other oil exporting countries want this too, cos they sell oil.
Venezuela will most likely agree to limit oil exports to support Iran.
Nigeria is almost in civil war and cutting it's oil is easy.
Energy companies love it when oil goes up.
Sure the puppet governments of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain & Co. support the US, but their citizens don't, and this could start another uprising inflicting a double whammy on prices, even if Iran doesn't target their installations.
Not to mention all the injuries, suffering and death any conflict will inflict on a generally peaceful nation.

So if you really don't relish the thought of walking with your wind sport gear down to your spot, I would seriously be against any war.

Peace.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis#Immediate_economic_effects

I don't get what angle you are coming from...

@nobs: my angle is, it's a lose, lose situation with war. No war no lose.

Just like to cover a few of your points:

FlySurfer said...
Everything could easily double, if the West starts a war with Iran.

Who's doing all the sabre rattling?

FlySurfer said...
The Israeli's want a war with Iran, because they want to be the only nuclear power in the middle east.

Now where is Pakistan ...??

FlySurfer said...
Israel has a very disproportionate influence on the west through media, political and economic interests.

It's the ONLY democracy in the middle east. Could have something to do with it.

FlySurfer said...
The Israeli's and western secret service agents routinely murder Iranians, conduct cyber attacks, steal their money, cripple their infrastructure, sanction them, foment uprisings and give rebel groups arms...

Routinely??? There's no such thing as routine when an insane despot repeatedly avows the utter extermination of your country, and proceeds to develop nuclear weapons. There is masses of archaeological evidence placing the Jews firmly in Israel for >3,500yrs now.

FlySurfer said...
When the US and CCCP had nuclear weapons they didn't and still don't dare fire at each other (MAD).

What do you mean "when"?? You mean still!! And of course they didn't/don't. They might well have been an aggressive commie bunch, but not insane.

FlySurfer said...
The Israeli's have nothing to fear, cos they're armed to the teeth.

Their entire country isn't much bigger than about Coffs Harbour to Nowra and inland to about Lithgow at its widest, yet they exist with the constant threat from >270,000,000 muslims promising to wipe them off the map. Add to that the fact that the Obama(nation) has thrown them under the bus and they have daily rocket attackss specifically aimed at civilian areas. Remember, it's not paranoia when they really are trying to kill you.

FlySurfer said...
The Iranians have been attached attacked, invaded,

By Israel??

FlySurfer said...
... had dictators imposed on them,

What do you call I'madinnerjacket then?? Surely it's their place to change that. (cf Egypt, Syria and others)

FlySurfer said...
... and yet they haven't been an aggressor since the Persian empire (5th century).

Try telling that to the Iraqis. Read a little history; the Persian Empire was several hundred years BC!

FlySurfer said...
Even in the worse case scenario and some how they manage to construct a Uranium fissile bomb, the yield would be low and they would have to be completely insane to use it as they would be assured complete destruction.

These idiots are happy with complete destruction, and yes, they are insane!! I'madinnerjacket fully believes he's ushering in the muslim equivalent of Christ's 2nd coming. Martyrdom is just a shortcut to glory. You really haven't studied this topic very widely, have you?

FlySurfer said...
If the target was Israel or another middle east country... well they'd still be around.
Israel could have full diplomatic relations with all middle eastern countries if they respected their 1967 boarders.

Cor, this embarrassing - for you. Have you seen what their 1967 borders were? West Bank, Gaza! The 6 days war was a decisive, defensive action by Israel. Israel was bigger then than it is now. They keep conceding land in the vain hope of peace, but you seem to have missed the various muslim leaders' threats to wipe Israel off the map. Their neighbours don't want peace; they want Israel removed!

FlySurfer said...
The bottom line is the US wants oil contracts, and control over the Earth's energy and to preserve it's reserve currency status,

Hard to argue with the US intentions, but don't confuse that with Israel. The US sells current front line military equipment to many middle eastern (muslim) countries, but have, in recent years refused to honour agreements with Israel. Obama is particularly anti-Israel, and not backward in showing it.

FlySurfer said...
... Israel wants to be the only nuclear power so it can do whatever it wants.

"... Israel wants to be the only nuclear power so it can" live in peace. Apart from subversive actions which Israel has undertaken, they've not been the military aggressor in any of their conflicts with their neighbours. Sure, they've won decisely in most, and pushed the aggressors back to where they've come from.

FlySurfer said...
Iran wants to develop so it can prove a better standard of living, be secure and the leading middle eastern country.

Too naive a view to be worth answering.
I'm running out of puff here. I don't think I've read such an uneducated crock, ever!

FlySurfer said...
If the US/Israel get their war it's going to cost us, yes you too, a lot with no possible benefit.

Do you really think that Israel, on their tiny little pocket handkerchief piece of land, with their 7.5 million people want a nuclear stouche with hundreds of millions of nuclear armed muslims, who avow the complete extermination of Israel, and to whom death in war is glory???

You are nuts!!

FlySurfer said...
Sure the puppet governments of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain & Co. support the US, but their citizens don't,

Who writes this stuff for you? Clearly you don't have the imagination for to make up this crock for yourself. The Saudis are the major financiers of global terror. But even they are afraid of I'madinnerjacket ever getting his way. Most of the middle eastern countries are, coz even they recognize that he's a complete nut bag.

FlySurfer said...
Not to mention all the injuries, suffering and death any conflict will inflict on a generally peaceful nation.

Hopefully by "... generally peaceful nation." you mean Israel.
No links to websites or Youtube. It's all out there for anyone who actually wants to find it.

A quote from Blaise Pascal (Google him) to end. Knock youselves out on this one - I won't be back to this thread. (heavy sighs of relief heard all round)

There is sufficient light for those who desire to see,
and there is sufficient darkness for those of a contrary disposition.
- Blaise Pascal, Pensees 149

Little Jon said...

Pakistan is safe because they have wepons
There are plently of democracies in the middle east
A lot of the jews are from europe or america, not the middle east
My ancestors are from britain but that doesn't mean I own london
Rocket attacks are self defence and not terror
ireland finance global terror (IRA)
Obama is not anti israel, he is just not anit arab as his predecessors

Okay, what are they then? I did a google search on it just then, and the suggestion was that Israel was the only democracy.

I might have it wrong though. What are the others?

Now that dinsdale has add his psychotic fit, and gone back to his Kibbutz.

The issue at stake for us is not Israel, it's at best a huge increase in the cost of living and at worst WWIII... for the sake of

dinsdale said...
tiny little pocket handkerchief piece of land

Iran hasn't broken any UN laws.




PS: Sorry dinsdale, 5th Century BC

Flysurfer, how much of that land was acquired, and how much was actually purchased?

I think the Israeli's tried a novel approach in that they actually bought (some of) the land off of the Palestinian owners.

Some of my ex-colleagues were working in that region and were suggesting that a lot of the local Palestinians actually liked the Israelis for the work and resources they brought to that area. Whenever there was an incident, the border access would close, and the Palestinians would be denied work, which they weren't happy with.

It is indeed a complex situation, and not as clear cut as it might otherwise seem.

I have a book at home that was suggesting that at the time of Israels inception a lot of the neighbouring arab states did not like the Palestinians. I wonder how true that was.

AHH! this is great..... Flysurfer, the NWO, Jew hating, conspiracy theory nutter..... versus.....Dinsdale.....Champion god botherer and moozy basher........This is gunna be bigger than Nadal v Djokovic!!!

log man said...

AHH! this is great..... Flysurfer, the NWO, Jew hating, conspiracy theory nutter..... versus.....Dinsdale.....Champion god botherer and moozy basher........This is gunna be bigger than Nadal v Djokovic!!!

You really are a nong of the Nth degree Loggy. How the hell do you deduce that Flysurfer is a Jew Hater?

Zionism is an excrescence that is roundly and loudly criticised by a lot of Jews. Are they Jew Haters as well?

Your logic is infantile and your contribution uninformed.

I thought the impending war with Iran was all to do with the petrodollar theory and if the US don't get the Iranians selling oil for USD again soon the USD is going to turn to crap, which means its all over for the US of A.

There is a good reason Obama brought the troops home from Iraq, so they can go and die in Iran instead.

If my country was surrounded by this many US military bases I would be a bit suspicious.

Macroscien said...
Take a NZ as example that sent last military jet to the scrap yard. If not will be trailing Greece right now or even precede their financial catastrophe. Maybe Kiwi are defenseless but they don't have any enemies either (external at least) and that is the best policy.

sure, but who would want to invade and take over NZ

Jarryd

Palestinians are Palestinians when they do live there and Israelis are Israelis when they live there of just Jews if live anywhere else.
If they both immigrate to US or Australia for example they became simply Australians and problem solved.
Scrap that all borders and issue one UN World Passports for all as Europe did for there part at least.
That could be fun to look at the World without borders.
I wonder how population arrangements looks in one year after opening ALL BORDERS ???
If all Muslims immigrate immediately to hated US ? Africans runs to Europe, whites back to Africa, Kiwis swim to Australia,
For sure I would stay where I am right now

Macroscien said...

FormulaNova said...
<snippo>

It's sad to say, but spending on weapons and defences actually stimulates an economy and 'usually' gets little argument from the public at the time.

With all respect (without respect) this is absolute nonsense created by ruling sphere to keep public muzzled. Soviets went bankrupt whole empire over single Afghanistan war and now took only two small peripheral conflicts (I should not call this even war) to bankrupt biggest empire ever.
What, if their housing crisis and GFC that follows come from 2 million died soldiers since September 11 not 20 thousands if you believe conspiracy theory and there is reason for so many empty houses now...

I don't mind if you agree or not.

Unfortunately, history suggests that a war is a way to get an economy up and running, albeit not usually if you are the loser...

Dragging out an example of a communist economy is not a great argument. I thought we were talking about western/capitalistic economies, no? I don't think any 'ruling sphere' would try and convince the public using this argument though. it's not exactly a positive.

Ah, conspiracies... what you are left with when you remove common sense and logic.

(If I was into conspiracy theories, I would suggest that the "iluminati" would create conspiracy theories to keep the public occupied... )

Macroscien said...

FormulaNova said...

Macroscien said...

FormulaNova said...
<snippo>

I I thought we were talking about western/capitalistic economies, no?

for clarity
My second example referred to bankrupted US economy on recent two wars,
So proof is on both sides: communist or capitalist doesn't feeds on wars too well.
According to your economy theory US should be now twice as reach after defeated both Saddam and Bin Laden !
They did grab all OIL in Iraqis desert and GOLD hidden in Afghan caves.
What worse if your theory was right then with every incoming crisis simple receipt instead of flooding countries with money could be calling next war and all problems solved.
I just hate wars, guns and stupidity.

Yeah, I think we all hate wars, guns, and stupidity. Unfortunately we as a whole tend to want what someone else has.

I think the US economy is in trouble because of the GFC and stupid investments. Have you got a reference that says that it is these wars that have bankrupted them? I think the GFC doing it is pretty evident.

Where do you think that the money the US spends on these wars actually goes? Sure, they might spend a bit of money on things that are lost, but the majority of the expenditure probably goes on manufacturing industries in their own country.

I recall that the Americans were giving a lot of the jobs in rebuilding Kuwait to their own people, instead of trying to get the locals onside by employing them. The British were trying to get the locals to do the work in order to create a sense of ownership.

So, the Americans were really just giving the work back to themselves, so the turnover of these companies would have stimulated the economy.

There are obvious political problems with declaring wars, but they do stimulate the economy. I am definitely not in favor of wars, I am just arguing a point. Spending money, by giving out stimulus money is more effective, but for some reason people don't question a war, at least initially.

If you observe the public reaction from people here in Australia when stimulus money was 'thrown around'. It was seen by a lot of people as 'a bad thing', but it appears to have worked.

I don't want to be proof wrong by in my opinion time for conquer wars is over. Why to fight if you could buy everything in this free market economy ?
China could conquer whole Africa in one week if only wished to do so but instead they decided to buy it out for cash and shiny junk.
If US instead of spending trillion dollars on Arabs and oil wars spent its dollars on solar panels at 1$/Watt whole California desert could be covered with PV panels and oil rich countries becomes irrelevant.
That could be real irony. All Oil sheikhs starving like Somalia kings because nobody wants their dirty stinking hydrocarbons
If they still want to fight each other on Middle East - left them to own devices, not our problem anymore.
We could be drive electric cars for 50 years already instead of smoking guzzlers nobody look back.
At one aspect oil is still important. Oil is needed to run war games as I can't still imagine electric tanks that need recharging every 10 km and jet fighters running on solar panels 30 km/h.
Forget wars and oil becomes irrelevant ..

On picture above you could see how new generation electric bomber bends under heavy load carrying 100 MegaTon hydrogen bomb soon to be dropped on enemy.
In this new humanitarian wars enemy has a plenty warning to:
a) give up, b) build a bunker, c) emigrate whole country - as electric bomber travelling 35 km/h and up winds sometimes needs a few months to cross the ocean.