So, Israel is trying to restore democracy to Palestine?
I wonder if you could setup a controlling party, lead by Palestinians, but controlled/over-ruled by Israel if needed, that made them manage their own affairs? In other words, try and restore some structure, but keeping Hamas away by building the infrastructure?
I guess like the Americans and others have found, if the enemy is blending into the local population it is impossible to win. Throw religion into that mix and it just stays a mess.
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..psychojoe said..
Hamas is a democratically elected party. Elected with policys like, 'we'll get them Jews'. Not everybody voted for them. Some of them are innocent.
More accurately 90% of them are innocent and didn't vote for Hamas.
In January 2006 the Palestinian territories held their last parliamentary elections.
Hamas won by a slim majority (44% to 41%) to the Fatah party - who recognize Israel's right to exist and support negotiations for a two-state solution.
As neither Hamas or Fatah wanted to share power, fighting broke out between the two groups. Hamas began murdering Fatah members and drove the remaining members to the West Bank. Hamas then took total control of the Gaza Strip.
Surprise surprise, Hamas' rule of Gaza is not what Palestinians voted for back in 2006. The median age of Gazans is 18, half of the Gazan population weren't even born when the election took place.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)
www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict
So it sounds to me like there has been 18 years of brutal dictatorship by Hamas against the will of the people? Certainly thier funnelling of massive amounts of aid money into war against Isreal instead of helping the people suggests so.
If this is true why hasn't the UN condemned this and intervened knowing full well the goal of Hamas was outright destruction of and war with Isreal and also having no qualms with how many of its own civilians were killed in the process. Why is the UN not entering this war against Hamas to liberate the people of Palestine?
The UN won't even label Hamas a terrorist organisation, even after the massacre of 1500 civilians, let alone thier stated objectives to kill all Jewish people. The UN didn't even condemn Hamas after the October massacre, just expressed concern. Yet Isreal's response to defend themselves was condemned....
Either Hamas is a legitimate authority of Palestine and therefore consequences of its actions fall on all of Palestine, or it is not and the international community should be helping to remove it and liberate Palestine from terrorists.
Either Hamas is condemned and removed by the international community or they simply stand aside and let Isreal remove them by any means possible. In fact what is happening is the international community is aiding Hamas financially. Make no mistake the UN and the international community has just as much blood on thier hands by refusing to address the cause of the issue as Isreal does in defending itself.
Select to expand quoteParadox said..myscreenname said..psychojoe said..
Hamas is a democratically elected party. Elected with policys like, 'we'll get them Jews'. Not everybody voted for them. Some of them are innocent.
More accurately 90% of them are innocent and didn't vote for Hamas.
In January 2006 the Palestinian territories held their last parliamentary elections.
Hamas won by a slim majority (44% to 41%) to the Fatah party - who recognize Israel's right to exist and support negotiations for a two-state solution.
As neither Hamas or Fatah wanted to share power, fighting broke out between the two groups. Hamas began murdering Fatah members and drove the remaining members to the West Bank. Hamas then took total control of the Gaza Strip.
Surprise surprise, Hamas' rule of Gaza is not what Palestinians voted for back in 2006. The median age of Gazans is 18, half of the Gazan population weren't even born when the election took place.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)
www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict
So it sounds to me like there has been 18 years of brutal dictatorship by Hamas against the will of the people? Certainly thier funnelling of massive amounts of aid money into war against Isreal instead of helping the people suggests so.
If this is true why hasn't the UN condemned this and intervened knowing full well the goal of Hamas was outright destruction of and war with Isreal and also having no qualms with how many of its own civilians were killed in the process. Why is the UN not entering this war against Hamas to liberate the people of Palestine?
The UN won't even label Hamas a terrorist organisation, even after the massacre of 1500 civilians, let alone thier stated objectives to kill all Jewish people. The UN didn't even condemn Hamas after the October massacre, just expressed concern. Yet Isreal's response to defend themselves was condemned....
Either Hamas is a legitimate authority of Palestine and therefore consequences of its actions fall on all of Palestine, or it is not and the international community should be helping to remove it and liberate Palestine from terrorists.
Either Hamas is condemned and removed by the international community or they simply stand aside and let Isreal remove them by any means possible. In fact what is happening is the international community is aiding Hamas financially. Make no mistake the UN and the international community has just as much blood on thier hands by refusing to address the cause of the issue as Isreal does in defending itself.
The UN, the EU, the IMF, World Bank, IPCC, Eurovison etc etc are all crooked, I don't agree with everything Japie says but I agree with him on this one.
Select to expand quotecammd said..japie said..cammd said..japie said..
At the beginning of the First World War there were 550k arabs in Palestine and 80k Jews.
And zero conflict.
The British gave their support to the Zionist goal of creating a Jewish homeland in return for convincing the Yanks to join the first world.
Good luck trying to convince the arabs that they should share their homeland with a crowd of Eastern Europeans who have used constant aggression in order to hang onto what is not theirs.
Jews are indigenous to Israel
If you are inferring that that gives them a claim to Palestine the claim is tenuous at its best.
What is a Jew? You can, and many have over the centuries, converted to Judaism. The converted are then classified as Jews. Khazars ring a bell? Do they have a legitimate claim on Palestine? Because they surely are not indigenous to Palestine.
Palestinians are also indigenous to Palestine. ( Israel was never a feature on the map until recently). Until relatively recently they were in the majority.
Early Christians were also indigenous to Palestine. Does that mean Christians have a legitimate claim on Palestine?
The fact is that the British government made an illegal commitment with a political entity, Zionists, supporting the Zionists goal to establish a Jewish state in Palestine in exchange for convincing the Yanks to join the First World War.
Which understandably got up the nose of the Germans, who were well and truly in control prior to the American involvement, and ultimately resulted in the Holocaust.
Another point to consider is that there is a substantial number of Jews who are highly critical of Zionism and that there always have been.
You ought to take into consideration what some of them have to say before committing yourself to supporting what can only be described as utterly disgusting behaviour.
I don't know why you keep bringing up the Zionism and the Germans, is it some sort of justification for the holocaust. Are you saying the jews brought it on themselves. What point are you trying to make.
The reason is because you cannot fully understand the situation in Israel if you do not take Nazi persecution of Jews into consideration.
After the treaty of Versailles there was scant enthusiasm by European Jews to emigrate to "The Holy Land". Understandably. Why would you leave a culture you'd been brought up in to head off to an alien foreign land?
Benjamin Freedman elucidates the situation at the time very clearly. He is not the only one incidentally. Everyone who queries or criticises the narrative is labelled anti semitic. There are transcripts online.
A shipload of effort was put into "encouraging" Jews to migrate. Not only from Germany. Many left the USSR in the fifties. Ironical really as they'd played a disproportionate role in establishing communism and were beginning to feel the consequences.
So basically unless you have a fundamental knowledge of the history of Israel you cannot begin to understand the current situation.
archive.org/details/transcript-speech-of-benjamin-freedman-willard-hotel-washington-dc-1961_202312/mode/1up?view=theater
Select to expand quotejapie said..cammd said..japie said..cammd said..japie said..
At the beginning of the First World War there were 550k arabs in Palestine and 80k Jews.
And zero conflict.
The British gave their support to the Zionist goal of creating a Jewish homeland in return for convincing the Yanks to join the first world.
Good luck trying to convince the arabs that they should share their homeland with a crowd of Eastern Europeans who have used constant aggression in order to hang onto what is not theirs.
Jews are indigenous to Israel
If you are inferring that that gives them a claim to Palestine the claim is tenuous at its best.
What is a Jew? You can, and many have over the centuries, converted to Judaism. The converted are then classified as Jews. Khazars ring a bell? Do they have a legitimate claim on Palestine? Because they surely are not indigenous to Palestine.
Palestinians are also indigenous to Palestine. ( Israel was never a feature on the map until recently). Until relatively recently they were in the majority.
Early Christians were also indigenous to Palestine. Does that mean Christians have a legitimate claim on Palestine?
The fact is that the British government made an illegal commitment with a political entity, Zionists, supporting the Zionists goal to establish a Jewish state in Palestine in exchange for convincing the Yanks to join the First World War.
Which understandably got up the nose of the Germans, who were well and truly in control prior to the American involvement, and ultimately resulted in the Holocaust.
Another point to consider is that there is a substantial number of Jews who are highly critical of Zionism and that there always have been.
You ought to take into consideration what some of them have to say before committing yourself to supporting what can only be described as utterly disgusting behaviour.
I don't know why you keep bringing up the Zionism and the Germans, is it some sort of justification for the holocaust. Are you saying the jews brought it on themselves. What point are you trying to make.
The reason is because you cannot fully understand the situation in Israel if you do not take Nazi persecution of Jews into consideration.
After the treaty of Versailles there was scant enthusiasm by European Jews to emigrate to "The Holy Land". Understandably. Why would you leave a culture you'd been brought up in to head off to an alien foreign land?
Benjamin Freedman elucidates the situation at the time very clearly. He is not the only one incidentally. Everyone who queries or criticises the narrative is labelled anti semitic. There are transcripts online.
A shipload of effort was put into "encouraging" Jews to migrate. Not only from Germany. Many left the USSR in the fifties. Ironical really as they'd played a disproportionate role in establishing communism and were beginning to feel the consequences.
So basically unless you have a fundamental knowledge of the history of Israel you cannot begin to understand the current situation.
archive.org/details/transcript-speech-of-benjamin-freedman-willard-hotel-washington-dc-1961_202312/mode/1up?view=theater
I cannot begin to understand the current situation without Benjamin Freedman's insights......hmmmm
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
I'm not clear on this Benjamin Freedman you place so much credence in
A couple quotes from his speech in no particular order
Now, for anyone to say that - I don't like to use the word 'anti-Semitism' because it's meaningless, but it means something to you still, so I'll have to use it - the only reason that there was any feeling in Germany against Jews was that they were responsible: number one, for World War One; number two, for this world-wide boycott, and number three - did I say for World War One, they were responsible? For the boycott - and also for World War II, because after this thing got out of hand, it was absolutely necessary for the Jews and Germany to lock horns in a war to see which one was going to survive.
The Jews of the world, the Zionists and their co-religionists everywhere, are determined that they are going to again use the United States to help them permanently retain Palestine as their foothold for their world government.
Now what happened? The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars.
Now, they were phallic worshippers, which is filthy. I don't want to go into the details of that now. It was their religion the way it was the religion of many other Pagans or Barbarians elsewhere in the world.
I think your Benjamin Freedman is a nutter, an anti semitic holocaust denying nutbag and that's being kind. I didn't read the whole speech but I think just those three paragraphs is enough to get the gist.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Phallic worshipping Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century are working to take over the world and what happened on Oct 7th is a part of the master plan
cammd said.....Jews are indigenous to Israel
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
White blue eyed fair skin people living in the middle east are clearly not indigenous to the area.
Do you believe the official account of what happened on 911 regarding WTC 7 and the twin towers?
Select to expand quotecammd said.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Phallic worshipping Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century are working to take over the world and what happened on Oct 7th is a part of the master plan
Can't rule it out.
Remember how the southern states were stolen from the Mexicans?
Select to expand quotecammd said..japie said..cammd said..japie said..cammd said..japie said..
At the beginning of the First World War there were 550k arabs in Palestine and 80k Jews.
And zero conflict.
The British gave their support to the Zionist goal of creating a Jewish homeland in return for convincing the Yanks to join the first world.
Good luck trying to convince the arabs that they should share their homeland with a crowd of Eastern Europeans who have used constant aggression in order to hang onto what is not theirs.
Jews are indigenous to Israel
If you are inferring that that gives them a claim to Palestine the claim is tenuous at its best.
What is a Jew? You can, and many have over the centuries, converted to Judaism. The converted are then classified as Jews. Khazars ring a bell? Do they have a legitimate claim on Palestine? Because they surely are not indigenous to Palestine.
Palestinians are also indigenous to Palestine. ( Israel was never a feature on the map until recently). Until relatively recently they were in the majority.
Early Christians were also indigenous to Palestine. Does that mean Christians have a legitimate claim on Palestine?
The fact is that the British government made an illegal commitment with a political entity, Zionists, supporting the Zionists goal to establish a Jewish state in Palestine in exchange for convincing the Yanks to join the First World War.
Which understandably got up the nose of the Germans, who were well and truly in control prior to the American involvement, and ultimately resulted in the Holocaust.
Another point to consider is that there is a substantial number of Jews who are highly critical of Zionism and that there always have been.
You ought to take into consideration what some of them have to say before committing yourself to supporting what can only be described as utterly disgusting behaviour.
I don't know why you keep bringing up the Zionism and the Germans, is it some sort of justification for the holocaust. Are you saying the jews brought it on themselves. What point are you trying to make.
The reason is because you cannot fully understand the situation in Israel if you do not take Nazi persecution of Jews into consideration.
After the treaty of Versailles there was scant enthusiasm by European Jews to emigrate to "The Holy Land". Understandably. Why would you leave a culture you'd been brought up in to head off to an alien foreign land?
Benjamin Freedman elucidates the situation at the time very clearly. He is not the only one incidentally. Everyone who queries or criticises the narrative is labelled anti semitic. There are transcripts online.
A shipload of effort was put into "encouraging" Jews to migrate. Not only from Germany. Many left the USSR in the fifties. Ironical really as they'd played a disproportionate role in establishing communism and were beginning to feel the consequences.
So basically unless you have a fundamental knowledge of the history of Israel you cannot begin to understand the current situation.
archive.org/details/transcript-speech-of-benjamin-freedman-willard-hotel-washington-dc-1961_202312/mode/1up?view=theater
I cannot begin to understand the current situation without Benjamin Freedman's insights......hmmmm
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
I'm not clear on this Benjamin Freedman you place so much credence in
A couple quotes from his speech in no particular order
Now, for anyone to say that - I don't like to use the word 'anti-Semitism' because it's meaningless, but it means something to you still, so I'll have to use it - the only reason that there was any feeling in Germany against Jews was that they were responsible: number one, for World War One; number two, for this world-wide boycott, and number three - did I say for World War One, they were responsible? For the boycott - and also for World War II, because after this thing got out of hand, it was absolutely necessary for the Jews and Germany to lock horns in a war to see which one was going to survive.
The Jews of the world, the Zionists and their co-religionists everywhere, are determined that they are going to again use the United States to help them permanently retain Palestine as their foothold for their world government.
Now what happened? The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world's population of those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars.
Now, they were phallic worshippers, which is filthy. I don't want to go into the details of that now. It was their religion the way it was the religion of many other Pagans or Barbarians elsewhere in the world.
I think your Benjamin Freedman is a nutter, an anti semitic holocaust denying nutbag and that's being kind. I didn't read the whole speech but I think just those three paragraphs is enough to get the gist.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Phallic worshipping Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century are working to take over the world and what happened on Oct 7th is a part of the master plan
You are exactly right. Thanks for putting me on the correct path.
While you're at it could you please set me right as far as Norman Finkelstein goes.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
cammd said.....Jews are indigenous to Israel
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
White blue eyed fair skin people living in the middle east are clearly not indigenous to the area.
Do you believe the official account of what happened on 911 regarding WTC 7 and the twin towers?
"What were blue eyed people doing in Northern Israel 6,500 years ago?
A large-scale genetic study of the ancient population of Peqi'in revealed that the Chalcolithic culture in the region developed by waves of migration from Anatolia and the Zagros mountains about 6500 years ago. This study was carried out by an international team of researchers led by Dr. Hila May and Prof. Israel Hershkovitz from the Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Dr. Dina Shalem from the Institute for Galilean Archaeology Kinneret College and the Israel Antiquities Authority, and ?adaoin Harney and Prof. David Reich of Harvard University.
Published in Ecology & Evolution
Aug 20, 2018"
communities.springernature.com/posts/what-were-blue-eyed-people-doing-in-northern-israel-6-500-years-ago
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
cammd said.....Jews are indigenous to Israel
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
White blue eyed fair skin people living in the middle east are clearly not indigenous to the area.
Do you believe the official account of what happened on 911 regarding WTC 7 and the twin towers?
Sorry Pete I never participated in the 911 thread, it was 200 pages in by the time I saw it and that was just to difficult to catch up.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..cammd said.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Phallic worshipping Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century are working to take over the world and what happened on Oct 7th is a part of the master plan
Can't rule it out.
Remember how the southern states were stolen from the Mexicans?
wasn't ruling it out, I was just putting it in nutshell for clarification.
Select to expand quotecammd said..Pcdefender said..
cammd said.....Jews are indigenous to Israel
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
White blue eyed fair skin people living in the middle east are clearly not indigenous to the area.
Do you believe the official account of what happened on 911 regarding WTC 7 and the twin towers?
Sorry Pete I never participated in the 911 thread, it was 200 pages in by the time I saw it and that was just to difficult to catch up.
ok but what is your take on 911?
Do you believe the three towers collapsed due to planes or due to controlled charges?
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..cammd said..Pcdefender said..
cammd said.....Jews are indigenous to Israel
I'm pretty clear on what happened October 7th.
White blue eyed fair skin people living in the middle east are clearly not indigenous to the area.
Do you believe the official account of what happened on 911 regarding WTC 7 and the twin towers?
Sorry Pete I never participated in the 911 thread, it was 200 pages in by the time I saw it and that was just to difficult to catch up.
ok but what is your take on 911?
Do you believe the three towers collapsed due to planes or due to controlled charges?
Oh dear.
Don't you like the discussion on this thread?
You're going to get this one shut down
Really?
What is the point then of having a discussion if you are not able to discuss certain points?
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
Really?
What is the point then of having a discussion if you are not able to discuss certain points?
What is the point of a discussion when the person initiating it is known to not want to argue logic and just produces memes and dodgy references?
9/11 has been done to death here and no one has changed anyone's mind.
It is interesting that CTers think that EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. Not just one.
I mean, if the earth really is flat, and they have lied to us about that, who cares about Israel? Clearly if they can hide a flat earth, then they can do what ever they want.
You may as well relax and enjoy the weather. There is nothing you can do about anything apparently.
With such a defeatist and condescending attitude i suggest you stick to your tv viewing and windsurfing, happy in your little bubble that everything is right and rosy.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
And give our skies back to nature
Blue green Algea rules
And you bacteria stay in your lane.
Trilobites deserved everything they got.
Select to expand quotehardpole said..Pcdefender said..
And give our skies back to nature
Blue green Algea rules
And you bacteria stay in your lane.
Perhaps you have a point as closed mindedness seems to be for the most part, for life.
The likes of FN should also stick to his lanes - mainstream newspapers, radio, tv and trusted online sites only that regurgitate official narratives to the letter.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil." Isaiah 5:20
"The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice." - Proverbs 12:15-25
Select to expand quotedecrepit said..
I'm not sure biblical quotes count as discussion.
I am not sure their scientism counts as a true religion as it seems to for many.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein.
Select to expand quoteremery said..
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein.
Einstein wouldn't tie his shoe laces because he didn't want to waste the brain power, he thought it was finite. As a genius, he was brilliant. As a neuroscientist, he was nothing.
Select to expand quotejapie said..
While you're at it could you please set me right as far as Norman Finkelstein goes.
here you go, Norman Finkelstein can set you right himself. He admits the even he doesn't want to see an end to the conflict.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..hardpole said..Pcdefender said..
And give our skies back to nature
Blue green Algea rules
And you bacteria stay in your lane.
Perhaps you have a point as closed mindedness seems to be for the most part, for life.
The likes of FN should also stick to his lanes - mainstream newspapers, radio, tv and trusted online sites only that regurgitate official narratives to the letter.
Ha! Your narratives are just full of plot holes
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Einstein wouldn't tie his shoe laces because he didn't want to waste the brain power, he thought it was finite. As a genius, he was brilliant. As a neuroscientist, he was nothing.
"Overall, the researchers found that Einstein's corpus callosum was thicker in most parts than both the elderly and younger comparison groups. This suggests that Einstein had more extensive neural connections between the left and right hemispheres in his brain. The researchers concluded that Einstein's intellectual gifts may have involved more coordinated communication between the two hemispheres."
solportal.ibe-unesco.org/articles/neuroplasticity-how-the-brain-changes-with-learning/
Einstein would have been ashamed of the genocide Israel is committing against the children of Gaza
