Ok its time to solve the problem of feral animal infestation in Australia, Seabreeze style.. Or this could just be an editorial.. It's a long read, I've kept the long words to a minimum and I haven't mentioned dinsdales crazy religion once. Or just scroll down and look at the pictures...

We have tried shooting them for 200 years and it's failed. It is impossible to get rid of the feral animals without waging bio warfare. They are here to stay. I am about to propose an unpopular approach, bring in more ferals!. Let me explain..

Every ecosystem needs predators. They eat herbivores, which would otherwise overpopulate and starve. Different size predators for different size prey. Wolves eat bison, foxes eat rabbits and so on. Large carnivores are partial to eating smaller carnivores as well. For example, when wolves were introduced back into Yellowstone, they reduced the coyote population and returned the ecological balance. The small mammals who were hunted by the coyote, came back when the wolf did..

Now what are the native Australian predators??

50 thousand years ago there were massive kangaroos and wombats on steroids, and other big mammals roamed the outback, And there were equally impressive predators.





Then it all changed, on 'Real Australia Day' 40000 years ago the Aboriginals came and ruined the party. The aboriginals no doubt wiped out most of the Mega faun. The romantic idea that aboriginals lived peacefully with the land is a myth. They stripped it almost bare. The only animals left were the ones to elusive to be eaten.

All the big plant eaters were gone, and the vegetation became over grown. So the aboriginals began 'firestick farming' which dramatically changed the flora.. Rainforest made way for fire loving eucalypts, and the climate dried as a result..

-Dingo gets dropped off in a canoe- fills the void left by the thylacine.

Fast forward to just before Australia was 'rediscovered' by europeans. The aboriginals have now been the apex predator for 40000 years, they are entrenched in the ecosystem, all the natives are adapted to humans.

White man came and told the aborigines they weren't allowed to live off the land anymore, and their land was given to farmers, who began their own environmental blitzkrieg.

To have something to shoot at, farmers introduced foxes and rabbits, which suddenly entered an environment void of predators, and full of local mammals unprepared for the cunning placental predators.

Joining the foxes and rabbits were also the camel, deer, pig, goat, buffalo, cat, dog, catdog, rats and horse.

There is one thing notable exception in that list, no apex predators. Humans don't like apex predators..

So now the top predators are the fox and cat, dingo, feral dog, goanna and the wedgy.. Hardly a replacement for the aboriginals, or the 'Old Firm'.... Foxes are too small to eat any big animals, cats likewise, dingoes are too rare and feral dogs are just too stupid to catch anything accept domesticated sheep and the odd drunk..

We have replaced the big herbivores. Not the big predators.

Foxes and cats, which have no competition at all are seen as pests. And they are, but the answer is not to kill them all, thats next to impossible. The answer I believe is to return the ecological balance. Unfortunately we cannot return to an ecosystem with humans as top dog. And we can't bring back the old firm of predators cause they are extinct..

The natural Australian environment disappeared 40,000 years ago.


So what's the solution? we cannot get rid of all the foxes, just like the dingo they are here to stay. And even if we could remove the fox what will replace it? nothing?..


Here are the predators australia had before the Aboriginals displaced them. We killed the last one top right because a few farmers lost some chickens, who is to doubt we wouldn't have killed the rest..


First one is a no brainer, we should reintroduce the Tasmanian devil.. The native fox..
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And we could reintroduce the Komodo Dragon, very similar to the extinct Megalania, and they already eat buffalo.


What Australian predator is keeping the camels from taking over?


How about bringing in the wolf? I reckon the feral dog and fox problem would disappear pretty quick. Along with some lambs.


If we won't bring in apex predators, we can't get angry at animals becoming feral, they are feral because of the ecological unbalance between predator and prey.

We can't get rid of the ferals, but we can match them.. Tim Flannery agrees with me, he even goes so far as to sugest elephants!.. Unfortunately the Greens, Liberals, Labour and Scientologists would all me against my epic plan.

...Sasquatch, that's your answer!!!

What about introducing coyotes ? Then we would have an "ACME" preditor ?....

Direct archaeological evidence for the hunting of the megafauna by Aboriginal hunters has long been contentious.
as suggested, modification of the landscape by humans was more likely the main cause of these extinctions.
The view of Aboriginal people as 'apex predators' is an interesting one. ethnographic accounts of Aboriginal life at the point of contact, in many cases, showed that whilst hunting was definitely a part of subsistence practices, the bulk of food stuffs was collected by women and children on a daily basis.
Aboriginal hunting became more efficient and arguably more prominent when they had access to rifles.
as for introducing 'Apex Predators' - didnt we introduce the Cane Toad (predator) to get rid of the Sugar Cane beatle (prey)? Also, wouldn't we just be repeating the same problems as those that introduced other 'feral' species. How would you stop introduced predators from killing native wildlife? what happens when the meat supply is gone?

Ados said...

Direct archaeological evidence for the hunting of the megafauna by Aboriginal hunters has long been contentious.
as suggested, modification of the landscape by humans was more likely the main cause of these extinctions.

Well never know for sure of the exact cause, but they all disappeared as soon as we arrived. Its a pretty consistant trend world wide that wherever Humans arrive, all the big stuff dies. Except africa where the big animals evolved alongside Humans.

It's also very politically incorrect to blame the Aborigines for displacing the Mega fauna. I think they should say 'SORRY'

Ados said...
The view of Aboriginal people as 'apex predators' is an interesting one. ethnographic accounts of Aboriginal life at the point of contact, in many cases, showed that whilst hunting was definitely a part of subsistence practices, the bulk of food stuffs was collected by women and children on a daily basis.

Good point, I have always imagined Aboriginals were only eating Witchetty grubs cause they had eaten everything else!. Kinda like the Mauri eating each other because they had eaten all the Moa..

Ados said...
Aboriginal hunting became more efficient and arguably more prominent when they had access to rifles.

How about when they hunt Dugongs in a 60hp tinny..

Ados said...
as for introducing 'Apex Predators' - didnt we introduce the Cane Toad (predator) to get rid of the Sugar Cane beatle (prey)? Also, wouldn't we just be repeating the same problems as those that introduced other 'feral' species. How would you stop introduced predators from killing native wildlife? what happens when the meat supply is gone?

The cane toad was a disaster, and not very thought out cause it didn't eat the beetles. But frogs become pests faster than slow breeding Predators like wolves and Komodos.

Introduced predators are already eating native wild life. Apparently Bilbys can only survive where there is a prominent Dingo population to suppress the Fox and cat. I doubt a Bilby would get the attention of a Tiger when there are plenty of fat pigs to eat.

There might be some colateral damage, Kangaroos might get hit hard, but there are to many of them also. What happens when the meat supply is gone? Well we are pretty good at shooting big carnivores. They are easier to control than Cane Toads..

barn said...

doggie said...

Barn = 8==D

Doggie I don't understand what that means. Why don't you write your thoughts in words.

You will work it out.

Im not getting dragged into your stupid theory barn.

Fox - BANG!

barn said...

doggie said...

barn said...

doggie said...

Barn = 8==D

Doggie I don't understand what that means. Why don't you write your thoughts in words.

You will work it out.

Im not getting dragged into your stupid theory barn.

Fox - BANG!

How did you get to 6459 posts without getting dragged into stupid theories.

By going (.).) boobs

One good thing about having large top predators is they should be fairly easy to control, compared to smaller predators. However I tend to think almost every time a new species is introduced into Australia, if it can find an environmental niche to suvive in, then it will and thus begin the problems with it.

Perhaps it would be better to make the pest species a resource, such as making money out of camel meat or camphor laurel wood. That way if people want to make a living out and about then they can by going around and killing them. At the same time make it illegal to grow these animals or plants.

If someone could earn say $300 a day collecting a noxious plant or animal the ferals could be kept under control.

You would not be paid to shoot foxes. You would be paid for each fox you shot. Paying people to shoot foxes sounds like something the federal government would think up, afterall its not their money they are spending. You'd be paid because the dead fox is worth something.

my solution for ferals will not go down to well,but,,
we get the illagal boat people who wish to stay here to spend 2 years out in the sticks,
(i mean they have done it so tough already ),during this time they can only catch kill and eat feral animals,(mmmm camel steaks),,after 2 years having reduced the ferals by a fair bit they can then stay in country. win ,win
less ferals and they have sort of earnt the right to stay.
when i was younger we had slug guns and never had any indian minors or butcher birds here,bring back slug guns
on a serious note,
we should be allowed to breed and keep as pets native animals,with fewer restrictions,
yeah i know this will cause debate,

DUDE said...

my solution for ferals will not go down to well,but,,
we get the illagal boat people who wish to stay here to spend 2 years out in the sticks,
(i mean they have done it so tough already ),during this time they can only catch kill and eat feral animals,(mmmm camel steaks),,after 2 years having reduced the ferals by a fair bit they can then stay in country.

Yes good idea but.............. mmmmmmmmmm no, send them back. Can you picture a few sheet head running after camels with blunt knives trying to get halal meat?????

Ados said...


During the height of the fox fur trade in the mid 80's, fox shooters were getting up to $25 for a good pelt. My guess its decline has meant an increase in fox numbers since then.

As a teen (with gun in hand) during the 80s in country Vic, my brother & I used to shoot quite a few foxes. We made good pocket money selling the pelts & more when 'foxlotto' was about, from memory we got $20 for every fox, plus the pelt bounty...sometimes we'd shoot 20-30 in a weekend at the beginning of lambing season! The most I got was $240 for 3 pelts...which was more than my dad made in a week. My brother & I used the small amount of money to help out our parents who were doing it tough at the time.

As for Barn's comment about culling foxes not working, it did work. The numbers of foxes decreased weekly until it became difficult to find one toward the end of lambing season.

The reason fox numbers have risen is more due to the costs and regulations involved in shooting nowadays. The anti-fur campaign slowed it down considerably, fox pelt prices dropped, and the gov't dropped their fox culling schemes. Apart from all of that, we still shot foxes (at our own expense) to reduce the amount of lamb kills.

When my brother, myself & mates (all of similar ages) left the area for work back in the early 90's, fox numbers came back 10fold, due to the fact we weren't out every Friday & saturday night shooting. A few farmers that originally didn't allow us on their property (which we respected) called and asked us to come back every couple of weeks and would pay us to clean up a few foxes...unfortunately, I let my licence lapse, so not a shooter anymore.

The problem with shooting foxes and selling the pelts, is you now get an environment which has lost a predator. And you can't keep it up, it's not financially viable to shoot ferals australia wide. The other problem is you get lots of old ladies wearing dead foxes on their head!.

And we need a solution that does not require human participation. You can imagine looking after the environment will be the first thing neglected when the economy collapses. (maybe then we will get the Human hunter gatherers back)

What we need is not to get rid of the foxes, we need the fox to stay cause if fills an ecological niche, what we need is the next ecological niche filled.

Imagine if you killed every big predator in Africa and introduced the Red fox. You would have an ecological disaster which would not be solved by just shooting all the foxes.

Points raised about not being able to introduce apex predators cause they will eat cow is a valid one. This is the main reason why it wont work, because of the farmers.

The other reason is people believe the Australian environment is 'natural', which is wrong. It has been the exploited backyard of humans for 400000 years, and its consequentially missing a few animals.

---

If we left everything untouched, in a few hundred thousand years foxes will speciate and some will evolve to become wolf size. Unless dogs beat them to it. The cats will evolve into leopard like 'big cats' and they will eat all the excess pigs. Native snakes will develop immunity to cane toads, and the balance will be restored... Nature always finds a way- I'm just hoping to speed it along.

I'd like to say I photo shopped that, but its a real animal!

doggie said...



From my last post in this thread, Im sure you didnt read it -

"Imported species such as rabbits, cane toads and foxes have never been stopped, and the march of the fire ants will not be halted unless a new major effort starts now."

Yep I read it. We cant stop the rabbits? Calicivirus nearly did it, until the farmers introduced it to the mainland before it was ready. Myxomatosis before that. Problem was, when we killed the rabbits the foxes and cats started eating the natives.

Fire Ants are nasty, another pest that is here to stay. They will probably spread as far as they like. I think the only way to stop them would be funding the Science and find a Fire Ant specific pathogen.

The difference is cane toads and foxes and fire ants reproduce faster than we can shoot them. Big predators cannot reproduce quickly.

barn said...

doggie said...



From my last post in this thread, Im sure you didnt read it -

"Imported species such as rabbits, cane toads and foxes have never been stopped, and the march of the fire ants will not be halted unless a new major effort starts now."

Yep I read it. We cant stop the rabbits? Calicivirus nearly did it, until the farmers introduced it to the mainland before it was ready. Myxomatosis before that. Problem was, when we killed the rabbits the foxes and cats started eating the natives.

Fire Ants are nasty, another pest that is here to stay. They will probably spread as far as they like. I think the only way to stop them would be funding the Science and find a Fire Ant specific pathogen.

The difference is cane toads and foxes and fire ants reproduce faster than we can shoot them. Big predators cannot reproduce quickly.

Sorry Im not going to argue with this dribble thats what you think barn, just run with that. I dont really care.

Diver said...

Glad this pig (introduced) won't be reproducing...

Nice pic. Is this you Diver?. If so how many do you reckon you get a year?, how long did it take you to get that one? How much money to you think it would have cost in fuel, equipment maintenance and time?. What on earth did you do with it? I read a story that a local zoo around here gets given deer by hunters to feed the resident Big Cats.. Maybe they should let the Cats catch their own deer?

I read a stat that there are 25million feral pigs. At a guess I'd say shooting, has an impact but it's clearly not getting enough.

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Sorry for the drivel doggie. Whats your solution to controlling ferals? Ignore foxes for a minute, what about the Camel? They have no predators. We have tried shooting them, it seems a bit futile. Is that the answer? anual Australia wide culls?. Who is gunna pay for it?