Political correctness gone mad

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FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
8 Dec 2009 7:02am
cisco said...

The myth of aboriginal occupation of Australia for 40 thousand years just does not stack up. The fact that the oldest skeletal remains of the Asian Dog (dingo) have been dated at 10 thousand years and as Australia has geologically been proven not to have been part of the Asian land mass (Sunda Straits etc), indicates that the people living in Australia in 1770 were the declining remains of a once sophisticated maritime culture.



Are you sure about this? This sounds like a linking of a few facts to create more than it is.

Why do you assume that aboriginals always had Dingos?

Australia is really close to Asia as far as sea travel goes. Surely you don't think it's that hard to sail a boat between the islands and get to Asia from Australia? I think even I could do it.

I sound like a broken record, but read 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' if you want to read a realistic interpretation of how and where aboriginal settlement came from.

Sort of bringing it back on topic, I am surprised how some people identify with only part of their heritage. Jump back a few generations and you have a lot of people that make up where you come from; how can you identify with just one of them?

In Australia it is common to not really know where your close ancestors came from, yet in some cultures it is easy to know where your ancestors came from, back quite a few generations.

Even if you described yourself as 'African', what race in Africa are you from. Apparently there were/are a few different races of people native to Africa.
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2570 posts
NSW, 2570 posts
8 Dec 2009 10:10am
i want some red thumbs. i feel left out.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
8 Dec 2009 11:29am
FormulaNova said...
[br

Why do you assume that aboriginals always had Dingos?

I believe it has been proven and is generally accepted history but that and I may be incorrect on that.

Australia is really close to Asia as far as sea travel goes. Surely you don't think it's that hard to sail a boat between the islands and get to Asia from Australia? I think even I could do it.

If it is just a matter of paddling/sailing to the next island that you can see, yes it is fairly easy and is achievable by primitive people.

Once the destination is "over the horizon" abstract thought is required as well as an understanding of the heavenly bodies and our place among them.

"We the Navigators" by Dr David Lewis illustrates this concept well.


I sound like a broken record, but read 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' if you want to read a realistic interpretation of how and where aboriginal settlement came from.

Sounds interesting. Can you give us author and publisher?


poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
8 Dec 2009 10:15am
The world becomes a better place when you accept people for being people rather than a stereotypical race.



EDIT Oh and before i go.....If Australians are so proud of being Australian and this is considered the pinnacle of multi cultural integration when are they gonna vote to be Independent.

LOL

Most countries have a civil war, unrest mass killings in order to gain independence.
Australia put it to the vote and say um er nah we like being part of the UK.
God save the queen eh?
Herry
Herry
130 posts
130 posts
8 Dec 2009 10:33am
Even Arnotts changed the name of their Golliwog biscuits to Scallywags, but they still look like Golliwogs to me.

A gift store located in Jervis Bay, NSW, actually sell Golliwogs.
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
8 Dec 2009 11:06am
We still have coon cheese tho - so redknecks everywhere can relax with very ordinary cheese platters.


There also used to be cigarette styled lollies called Phags (had to change the spelling due to SB filtering but it was actually with an 'F') complete with red burning looking end sold to kids. Yeh, really smart.

Times change and we climbed down from the trees and all bought spunky plasma screens. Fek orf back up the tree and throw your tuurds around if you prefer the old ways.

Suprised no-one has suggested that it's all part of the way Muslims/Asians/anyone who isn't lilly white with leaning for white power, are taking over this country.. give it an hour or so.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
8 Dec 2009 11:37am
cisco said...

FormulaNova said...
[br

Why do you assume that aboriginals always had Dingos?

I believe it has been proven and is generally accepted history but that and I may be incorrect on that.

Australia is really close to Asia as far as sea travel goes. Surely you don't think it's that hard to sail a boat between the islands and get to Asia from Australia? I think even I could do it.

If it is just a matter of paddling/sailing to the next island that you can see, yes it is fairly easy and is achievable by primitive people.

Once the destination is "over the horizon" abstract thought is required as well as an understanding of the heavenly bodies and our place among them.

"We the Navigators" by Dr David Lewis illustrates this concept well.


I sound like a broken record, but read 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' if you want to read a realistic interpretation of how and where aboriginal settlement came from.

Sounds interesting. Can you give us author and publisher?





The author is Jared Diamond. It covers his thoughts on why certain people survived well and expanded across the globe and others didn't. It really has no relation to any 'race' as such, more luck of where you happen to have been born and the resources at your disposal.

Do youself a favor and read the book and don't bother with the TV series of the same name.

www.pbs.org/gunsgermssteel/

It is well constructured and argues why his interpretation seems correct to him.

It is not just dealing with Australia, but covers anywhere modern human has gone.

I think it is surprising at how good ancient sailors were. Without modern navigation aids, they did just fine and spread all through the pacific at the very least. I think when all you have is the stars to navigate by, you become very good at it.

I don't understand your reference to 'abstract thought' though as I suspect this ability has been present in humans for a long long time, and not a particularly recent change. 100's of thousands of years? Longer?

I think he is originally a Linguistics professor and uses changes and derivations in languages, as well as other information, to help him work out where a group of people could have moved from and to.

I found it very interesting why Australia only had a very small population (100,000?), yet New Guinea had millions at the same time. How does that work?


Herry
Herry
130 posts
130 posts
8 Dec 2009 1:48pm
Yeah, the PHags are now called FADS.

Elroy Jetson
Elroy Jetson
WA
706 posts
WA, 706 posts
8 Dec 2009 9:07pm
This is the internet. You can not possibly expect someone to google the book name, find out which local library stocks it and then actually leave the house and drive down the road to get it!

Iview had all three episodes of "Guns, germs and steel". But only the 2nd and 3rd are still available to watch.

It can be watched in chunks on youtube

In a nutshell it is: "A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years"



cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
8 Dec 2009 11:40pm
FormulaNova said...

I think it is surprising at how good ancient sailors were. Without modern navigation aids, they did just fine and spread all through the pacific at the very least. I think when all you have is the stars to navigate by, you become very good at it.

Not just the stars. Observation of sea birds, marine life, flotsam, wind and wave patterns and directions and cloud formations.

I don't understand your reference to 'abstract thought' though as I suspect this ability has been present in humans for a long long time, and not a particularly recent change. 100's of thousands of years? Longer?

Absolutely true, abstract thought is one of the things that differentiates man from animals as does the concept of future. What I am trying to say is that until a people or race develops the capacity for abstract thought, it will not be able to travel beyond the shores of the land on which it lives and could be referred to as being tribal and primitive.

I found it very interesting why Australia only had a very small population (100,000?), yet New Guinea had millions at the same time. How does that work?

If I try to answer that I might dig myself a hole that I can't get out of.



paddymac
paddymac
WA
943 posts
WA, 943 posts
8 Dec 2009 9:43pm
FormulaNova said...
I think it is surprising at how good ancient sailors were. Without modern navigation aids, they did just fine and spread all through the pacific at the very least. I think when all you have is the stars to navigate by, you become very good at it.

I was fascianted by stories I heard on a sailing trip to New Zealand about Polynesian navigation. Vast distances with very rudimentary knowledge - nothing systematic. Check out Wikipedia - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation

Wow, talk about off topic !!

Tolerance and a sense of humor Dalai Lama style!
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
9 Dec 2009 6:13am
cisco said...

I think it is surprising at how good ancient sailors were. Without modern navigation aids, they did just fine and spread all through the pacific at the very least. I think when all you have is the stars to navigate by, you become very good at it.

Not just the stars. Observation of sea birds, marine life, flotsam, wind and wave patterns and directions and cloud formations.



Yeah, I started to read up on that book as it seems interesting. I might try and find a copy. Following different types of sea birds is quite a clever way of working out how far away land might be.


I don't understand your reference to 'abstract thought' though as I suspect this ability has been present in humans for a long long time, and not a particularly recent change. 100's of thousands of years? Longer?

Absolutely true, abstract thought is one of the things that differentiates man from animals as does the concept of future. What I am trying to say is that until a people or race develops the capacity for abstract thought, it will not be able to travel beyond the shores of the land on which it lives and could be referred to as being tribal and primitive.



Yes, that's what I thought you meant. Abstract thought does exist in any and every culture/tribe/people you can think of. It does not develop in a people or race, it is already there. Describing something using language is an example of abstract thought.


I found it very interesting why Australia only had a very small population (100,000?), yet New Guinea had millions at the same time. How does that work?

If I try to answer that I might dig myself a hole that I can't get out of.



I know the answer, well at least the answer that Guns Germs and Steel suggests. I can guess what you are thinking, and you are probably wrong. Read Jared's book and see if you still agree.

Just for a minute, assume that the people in both places are exactly the same, and go from there. What are the differences between the two islands?



FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
9 Dec 2009 6:21am
Elroy Jetson said...

This is the internet. You can not possibly expect someone to google the book name, find out which local library stocks it and then actually leave the house and drive down the road to get it!



Yeah, I think I still exist in the last century and like to read. My version of what you said above is to find an online bookstore and order it, and read it when it arrives.

I think you often get a lot more detail in reading a book than they present on a video. Like almost any Stephen King book, the book is way better than the movie.

In this particular case, the book is quite detailed, and I have only seen one episode of the series. The series is interesting, but nowhere near the same detail. If you wanted to specifically look at the settlement of Australia versus New Guinea, the book is the way to go.



Iview had all three episodes of "Guns, germs and steel". But only the 2nd and 3rd are still available to watch.

It can be watched in chunks on youtube

In a nutshell it is: "A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years"



Cheers.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
9 Dec 2009 9:34am
Greenroom said...

I had one of these when I was a kid.




^^^ Just last week bought 2 'gollywog' (and yes, that's what they call them still...or at least do on Ebay) knitting patterns for elderly next-door neighbour for a gift for babysitting our kids.
j murray
j murray
SA
947 posts
SA, 947 posts
9 Dec 2009 10:00am
you are all wrong....our first settlers, before the sun burnt ones, way before,
came here across the land bridge of what we call New Guinea, [on landyachts [}:)] they were descendants of the Nordics and Chinese
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
9 Dec 2009 10:47am
That would be ol' Sven Wong and his mates.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
9 Dec 2009 11:07am
j murray said...

you are all wrong....our first settlers, before the sun burnt ones, way before,
came here across the land bridge of what we call New Guinea, [on landyachts [}:)] they were descendants of the Nordics and Chinese


Alright, I will bite. Joe, where have you gotten this nugget of knowledge from?

cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
9 Dec 2009 1:41pm
FormulaNova said...

Elroy Jetson said...

This is the internet. You can not possibly expect someone to google the book name, find out which local library stocks it and then actually leave the house and drive down the road to get it!



Absolutely,why not???

Yeah, I think I still exist in the last century and like to read. My version of what you said above is to find an online bookstore and order it, and read it when it arrives.

I think you often get a lot more detail in reading a book than they present on a video. Like almost any Stephen King book, the book is way better than the movie.

Reading a book is one way of switching on the "Video of the Mind" and a very good exercise for the brain. As with all muscles; use it or lose it.

Statisticly, poeple who read books tend to live longer or the converse.



Goji Berries grown on the Chinese side of the Himilayas are good for the brain too.

laurie
laurie
WA
3890 posts
WA, 3890 posts
9 Dec 2009 5:59pm
Glad to see this is all staying on track!

Thought this relevent...

The Blind Men and the Elephant (by John Godfrey Saxe)

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:
So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
9 Dec 2009 10:01pm
^^^ Loz...from now on...stay away from that microwave unless you're wearing your foil cap!

Or perhaps better advice...DON'T INHALE!
Herry
Herry
130 posts
130 posts
9 Dec 2009 7:09pm
FormulaNova said...

j murray said...

you are all wrong....our first settlers, before the sun burnt ones, way before,
came here across the land bridge of what we call New Guinea, [on landyachts [}:)] they were descendants of the Nordics and Chinese


Alright, I will bite. Joe, where have you gotten this nugget of knowledge from?




I actually remember being taught this in primary school. Our native Aboriginal people travelled to this island on pieces of driftwood. I remember quite clearly.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15100 posts
WA, 15100 posts
9 Dec 2009 7:26pm
Herry said...

FormulaNova said...

j murray said...

you are all wrong....our first settlers, before the sun burnt ones, way before,
came here across the land bridge of what we call New Guinea, [on landyachts [}:)] they were descendants of the Nordics and Chinese


Alright, I will bite. Joe, where have you gotten this nugget of knowledge from?




I actually remember being taught this in primary school. Our native Aboriginal people travelled to this island on pieces of driftwood. I remember quite clearly.


Driftwood hey? Did they get any footage of this?

I'm trying to think of how to get religion and politics into this. Any takers?
Elroy Jetson
Elroy Jetson
WA
706 posts
WA, 706 posts
9 Dec 2009 9:24pm

Herry said...
I actually remember being taught this in primary school. Our native Aboriginal people travelled to this island on pieces of driftwood. I remember quite clearly.


Primary school you say.

I wasn't taught anything about Australian Aboriginal people in Primary school.

I wasn't taught anything about Australian Aborigonal people in Secondary School.

It sounds like you and me Herry have these 2 things in common.


Elroy Jetson
Elroy Jetson
WA
706 posts
WA, 706 posts
9 Dec 2009 9:48pm

So just suppose that later in life, after school, I would like to approach an Australian Aboriginal man or woman in a couteous or respectful way.

It shocked me that I had no idea.


Realising this massive hole in my education and upbringing, I managed to opt in to a couple Aboriginal perspective units during tertiary education.

I can honestly say I felt like a retard when after 25 years of schooling and living in Australia I learnt that Aboriginal people would prefer to be asked what part of Australia they come from and for you to respond with what part of Australia you are from.

That was in the first 2 minutes of the first tutorial.








mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
9 Dec 2009 10:26pm
Elroy Jetson said...


So just suppose that later in life, after school, I would like to approach an Australian Aboriginal man or woman in a couteous or respectful way.

It shocked me that I had no idea.


Realising this massive hole in my education and upbringing, I managed to opt in to a couple Aboriginal perspective units during tertiary education.

I can honestly say I felt like a retard when after 25 years of schooling and living in Australia I learnt that Aboriginal people would prefer to be asked what part of Australia they come from and for you to respond with what part of Australia you are from.

That was in the first 2 minutes of the first tutorial.











Then listen too Noongar radio100.9 in the afternoon to Karla Hart 3pm-6pm time slot and on Wednesday evening 7pm-10pm with Mary G. Fortunately as a kid I grew up with a great bunch of fulla's and I have a basic working knowledge of how they view us wadjelars (spellings wrong, but you get the point) I can use some wording, but be buggered if I can spell the words
Karla is still learning the ropes,and a funny lady
Mary G, well I cant describe her, its too bloody hard. But me, well I usually laugh a lot listening to her/his antics
http://www.noongarradio.com/web-data/Stationery/PresentersKarlaHart.html
www.noongarradio.com/web-data/Stationery/ProgramsTheMaryGShow.html
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
10 Dec 2009 1:10am
laurie said...

Glad to see this is all staying on track!


Get out of it!! It has gone all over the place.

Good thread though and love the poem.

Herry
Herry
130 posts
130 posts
10 Dec 2009 4:52am
Elroy Jetson said...


Herry said...
I actually remember being taught this in primary school. Our native Aboriginal people travelled to this island on pieces of driftwood. I remember quite clearly.


Primary school you say.

I wasn't taught anything about Australian Aboriginal people in Primary school.

I wasn't taught anything about Australian Aborigonal people in Secondary School.

It sounds like you and me Herry have these 2 things in common.





My daughter's in Kindy and has studied a unit called "our fleeting past" which touches on the effect european settlement had on indigenous Australians. But then the school also pays respects to the traditional custodians of the land at each assembly.

Oh, and yes, we got footage of the journey on Sony Handycam
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2570 posts
NSW, 2570 posts
10 Dec 2009 11:49pm
saltiest1 said...

i want some red thumbs. i feel left out.


thanks
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
11 Dec 2009 9:08am
saltiest1 said...

saltiest1 said...

i want some red thumbs. i feel left out.


thanks


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