frant said...
...
You know Gorgo that is a load of crock.

...In each case we shook hands and made other physical contact. We are HUMAN beings. We rely on more than flow of electrons down a wire to communicate.

I did not mention medical visits over the net ... although they are possible. Quick checks to see how people are and providing simple sensor devices that take blood pressure and stuff are all feasible. With an aging population you could have cases workers remotely visiting the fit elderly at home to keep an eye on them.

By Design on Radio National had an interview with Bruce Mau, a leading designer, he works from home and has conferences with people all over the US and the rest of the world. He got the idea from his collegues and other leading figures in the industry. You can listen to it here mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2010/07/bdn_20100728_1505.mp3

I have done video conferences all over the world in the past 10 years and most of that was done before broadband.

What I was really referring to, and gave examples of, are all those tedious things that you really don't want to do but still requre face time to get done. The tedious and boring stuff. I never see my accountant face to face anymore.

As for human contact, I would rather spend time in contact with the people I want to be with, not accountants and counter people at banks and stuff.

BTW I bet 10-15 years ago you never thought you'd be sitting at a computer debating guff with total strangers.

What does the NBN and Sri Lanka have in common ?

- at $43 billion the NBN will cost more than the total annual production of Sri Lanka.


No wonder the Tamals get on little boats to come to Australia.

In Australia they spend more than Sri Lanka spends on everything on ensuring that an old lady in Wagga Wogga can download a video off the internet in under 10 minutes, instead of the painfully slow 25 minutes it took her yesterday.

I am all for spending $43 billion of tax payers money on something nobody can agree on. Hopefully it will result in petermac being able to post 34 random Utube clips a week instead of the current 17, or me being able to get my copy of Organic Papyaya Growing Monthly by e-mail instead of by the post.

Gorgo said...

BTW I bet 10-15 years ago you never thought you'd be sitting at a computer debating guff with total strangers.

And I bet if somebody told you that if you spent $43 billion you could argue with a computer screen you would have jumped at the chance.

Carantoc said...

What does the NBN and Sri Lanka have in common ?

- at $43 billion the NBN will cost more than the total annual production of Sri Lanka.


No wonder the Tamals get on little boats to come to Australia.

In Australia they spend more than Sri Lanka spends on everything on ensuring that an old lady in Wagga Wogga can download a video off the internet in under 10 minutes, instead of the painfully slow 25 minutes it took her yesterday.

I am all for spending $43 billion of tax payers money on something nobody can agree on. Hopefully it will result in petermac being able to post 34 random Utube clips a week instead of the current 17, or me being able to get my copy of Organic Papyaya Growing Monthly by e-mail instead of by the post.

Mate your a dickhead. It only represents 4.3% of Australia's gross GDP, will last a lifetime and will create far geater than a 4.3% increase in GDP over its life span. Thus it is a sound economic basis for infrastructure development.

If CY O'Connor had not fought idiots in the WA Government like yourself then the WA Goldfields would not have driven Australian growth for over 100 years and generated a thousand times the cost of the Coolgardie pipeline.

Your an idoit, go read the 'mental health of forum members' thread.

Cock.

Carantoc said...

Carantoc said...

What does the NBN and Sri Lanka have in common ?

- at $43 billion the NBN will cost more than the total annual production of Sri Lanka.


No wonder the Tamals get on little boats to come to Australia.

In Australia they spend more than Sri Lanka spends on everything on ensuring that an old lady in Wagga Wogga can download a video off the internet in under 10 minutes, instead of the painfully slow 25 minutes it took her yesterday.

I am all for spending $43 billion of tax payers money on something nobody can agree on. Hopefully it will result in petermac being able to post 34 random Utube clips a week instead of the current 17, or me being able to get my copy of Organic Papyaya Growing Monthly by e-mail instead of by the post.

Mate your a dickhead. It only represents 4.3% of Australia's gross GDP, will last a lifetime and will create far geater than a 4.3% increase in GDP over its life span. Thus it is a sound economic basis for infrastructure development.

If CY O'Connor had not fought idiots in the WA Government like yourself then the WA Goldfields would not have driven Australian growth for over 100 years and generated a thousand times the cost of the Coolgardie pipeline.

Your an idoit, go read the 'mental health of forum members' thread.

Cock.

And it is idiot, can't you even spell wright ?

Except for Carantoc. It's starting to sound like he should be locked up!

OK, but next time he has to bring enough for everyone.

Gorgo said...

frant said...
...
You know Gorgo that is a load of crock.

...In each case we shook hands and made other physical contact. We are HUMAN beings. We rely on more than flow of electrons down a wire to communicate.

I did not mention medical visits over the net ... although they are possible. Quick checks to see how people are and providing simple sensor devices that take blood pressure and stuff are all feasible. With an aging population you could have cases workers remotely visiting the fit elderly at home to keep an eye on them.

By Design on Radio National had an interview with Bruce Mau, a leading designer, he works from home and has conferences with people all over the US and the rest of the world. He got the idea from his collegues and other leading figures in the industry. You can listen to it here mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2010/07/bdn_20100728_1505.mp3

I have done video conferences all over the world in the past 10 years and most of that was done before broadband.

What I was really referring to, and gave examples of, are all those tedious things that you really don't want to do but still requre face time to get done. The tedious and boring stuff. I never see my accountant face to face anymore.

As for human contact, I would rather spend time in contact with the people I want to be with, not accountants and counter people at banks and stuff.

BTW I bet 10-15 years ago you never thought you'd be sitting at a computer debating guff with total strangers.

Gorgo I feel sorry for you. I just got back from the bank after depositing a cheque. Don't rec've many of those now as it all comes in via netbank ie the netbank system works fine without the billions to be wasted on the NBN. But you know what! The bank teller was a pretty girl with a nice smile that she flashed at me. That makes me feel much better than looking at any of Doggies favourite internet images! Which I can download just fine on the current internet system. And that little old lady that they are going to check blood pressure on remotely via the internet. Her blood pressure would probably be much lower if she could just share a cuppa with the district nurse. Now I like to spend time with people that I like. I just think that time spent with them is better if we actually enjoy the time we are not with them. That is what human contact means.
Spend the money on something that will make a real difference to our lives not just a few who might benefit from fast internet speeds.

frant said...

Gorgo I feel sorry for you. I just got back from the bank after depositing a cheque. Don't rec've many of those now as it all comes in via netbank ie the netbank system works fine without the billions to be wasted on the NBN. But you know what! The bank teller was a pretty girl with a nice smile that she flashed at me. That makes me feel much better than looking at any of Doggies favourite internet images! Which I can download just fine on the current internet system. And that little old lady that they are going to check blood pressure on remotely via the internet. Her blood pressure would probably be much lower if she could just share a cuppa with the district nurse. Now I like to spend time with people that I like. I just think that time spent with them is better if we actually enjoy the time we are not with them. That is what human contact means.
Spend the money on something that will make a real difference to our lives not just a few who might benefit from fast internet speeds.

The problem frant is that there'll always be other good and worthwhile things to spend the money on. For example, if we always thought that way then the Snowy Mountains project would never have been built.

Other thing is that we can't really know what the benefits of the NBN will be until the NBN is built and available. You're only thinking in terms of todays limited technology. But think back 20 years... did you really consider that you'd be downloading entire movies? I know I didn't. It was all dialup and a 1200 baud modem was pretty darn good. Now whole industries exist based on the interweb.

For instance my mate has a company which provides computer and internet support. He runs it from Sydney but has customers through Asia. He employs people. He brings dollars into the country. And none of it would exist if broadband wasn't available.

Or another example (I heard this one during the election)... back in the days when electricity generation was in its infancy, they thought wiring up the streets was a good idea just so they could provide street lighting. That's it. No ideas about running wires into people's houses. Now look what we do with it.

Or that little old lady who needs her blood pressure checked. Your example of her being better off if she had human contact... yes, that's fine IF she lives somewhere where it's easy to go down the road and get that done. What if she lives out in the middle of nowhere? Quite a few of our farmers live that way. Their kids get schooled via radio. Their doctoring happens in when a doctor can fly in. Many of these farmers run biggish businesses. Could it be a good idea to give them good internet access to the rest of the world so they have better access markets as well as get their families better health and their kids a better education than currently? I think it could.

Gizmo said...

Hey maxm can you please explain how to get 1000 head of cattle or a semi load of wheat down a fibre cable? (what speed would you need for that?)
If the roads were better those cattle / wheat etc. could get to the sale yards faster and in better condition with less wear and tear to the truck, this would increase profits for the farmers.
Spending more money on BASIC infrastructure would be a better investment for the future of the country!!!

Nah, you're missing the key piece to that logic. As all roads are stuffed, all farmers are on a level playing field, so prices are the same if we had good roads or the bad ones we now seem to have

I'm not an expert but it sounds like the best way to increase profits for the farmers is to have more competition in the supermarket area.

My in laws live 13km on marginal dirt roads from the nearest town, 2hrs from the nearest regional centre and 600km from the state capital get 2 TV channels and that's in doubt when digital comes in, JUST in mobile range of some carriers, the power is marginal and limited because the SWER line.
Trust me broadband is the LAST thing they want or need..... City people may want to download movies, music or download porn at lightning speed (faster than they can watch it) but get a grip on reality is this needed for ALL Australians now

Could you afford ALL of these paid services? All of those cost $$$$ either ongoing costs or the equipment.
They grow wheat not money trees (not enough rain for those) and without wheat you won't get your wheat bix or toast for brekkie, donuts for morning tea or subway for lunch.
Broadband would make your life easier BUT a sealed road for them could mean the difference between life and death.
All I'm saying broadband will be great for a minority but basic infrastructure is good for ALL Australians

But - in answer to the original query -

NBN Facts?? Can anyone confirm or refute??

It appears not.

You would think somebody somewhere should have to put up a pretty sound business case to justify $43 billion new spend, but apparently not - or maybe they just aren't very good at selling that model it to the people who are paying for it.

Perhaps an alternate thought for a NBN is leave it up to the commercial telcos to install the best equipment and infrastructure to suit them and their customers needs and expand the system in ALL forms of delivery (cable, fibre,wireless 3G,4G etc.). And let natural commercial decisions and rivalry drive the the network, and get the Gov. to chip in a bit to help the isolated areas of Australia with tax relief for those in need.

Gizmo said...

Could you afford ALL of these paid services? All of those cost $$$$ either ongoing costs or the equipment.
They grow wheat not money trees (not enough rain for those) and without wheat you won't get your wheat bix or toast for brekkie, donuts for morning tea or subway for lunch.
Broadband would make your life easier BUT a sealed road for them could mean the difference between life and death.
All I'm saying broadband will be great for a minority but basic infrastructure is good for ALL Australians

Just as information, the Imparja service is a once off fee for the decoder card ($120?) and the set top box. After that its free.

Broadband in the bush is heavily subsidized now, and they should have access to relatively cheap internet whether its satellite or NextG.

Are these real issues they care about, or just an example of what you think is the case?

Don't get me wrong, but I think this country needs a decent rail service to replace a lot of the long haul truck freight, amongst other things. Why can't we have both?