MIG versus TIG, which one is better ?

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> 10 years ago

Shooting the breeze.

Test pilot 1

1430 posts

Test pilot 1

WA, 1430 posts

9 Dec 2012 2:26pm

FormulaNova said...

kk said...
F N said
I saidbought a bottle from a guy advertising on ebay, where you can buy the bottles, and then swap them when empty. The bottle says 'atomic' but they seem to go under the name speedgas. Recently a tool shop in Taren Point has become a distibutor for them as well. I think (a while ago now) it was $199 for a E of Argoshield. I use it that infrequently that the BOC rental was costing me more than the gas.

I have to find out about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have for the past few years paid more in hire than on gas for three bottles (mig and the oxy bros)

I think the drive to swap the bottle could be a killer :)

www.speedgas.com.au/

They don't do oxygen. I still have one on rent from BOC, which would be good to have outright instead.

I use oxy/propane for other stuff, so at least I don't have to rent acetylene.

I had a mate who used to have 'spare' bottles for each gas type.
He would buy the gas, take it home and decant into his 'spares' then take the empty bottle back next day. No rental charge!

desertyank

1264 posts

desertyank

1264 posts

10 Dec 2012 3:04am

Macroscien said...
I have one safety concern about my 3 in 1 MIG, TIG MMA welder.
There are three switches on front panel to change mode of operation.
I did try to measure polarization and voltage on MIG gun. Since there is no manual to explain I had to toggle a bit different combination of this switches.

As usual in MMA and MIG voltage on the wire protruding from gun range from 20 to 54 V. That is ok.

But when I toggle the switch on front panel to TIG mode suddenly my volt meter with 1,000V range going into smoke and sparks.
I did the test again with different meter since the fist got damaged with exactly the same, then again with third meter to make sure.
All three are dead now.
Well, since the MIG gun is permanently connected to the welder ( not like some newer Euro plug) that mean that when operating as a TIG but touching MIG or MMA stick coincidently could be quite danger (if not fatal - i cant test this

I tough for a while test on a cane toad that right now are quite abundant at my place

) . If all 3 in 1 works like that or only mine ?

In addition to a hi voltage start, the standard setting for TIG welding steel is with the torch being negative. That puts the heat into the weld, and out of the torch. If the meter doesn't switch, that could have smoked it. Any pics of it with flames or smoke?[}:)]

Macroscien

QLD

6809 posts

Macroscien

QLD, 6809 posts

10 Dec 2012 10:38am

desertyank said...
works like that or only mine ?

In addition to a hi voltage start, the standard setting for TIG welding steel is with the torch being negative.

IN such case the High Voltage shouldn't be activated when you do press button on the TIG gun only?
I did try to MIG welding on the TIG mode setup but looks like unit is overheating after several seconds, so I could weld a 1 cm at the time.
Same with MMA , but the start with stick is at least much easier and sound comming out of the spark brilliant.
As you said I thought that flipping the TIG switches may alternate the polarization on the MIG gun, but so far I have no means to check it out.
There is huge relay inside the box that may do just that, but I could not scarify my 4th multimeter.

inside Inverter TIG, MIG MMA welder

big relay

FormulaNova

15100 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15100 posts

10 Dec 2012 10:10am

Macroscien, how many (big) terminals are going into that relay? If there are only two then it won't be changing the polarity.

It is very unlikely that they would change the polarity this way. It is easier for them to just swap the leads on the front panel.

The manufacturer might have gotten cheap and left the HV start on everything. It shouldn't matter, but I can only see the real benefit of having it with TIG.

longwinded

347 posts

longwinded

WA, 347 posts

10 Dec 2012 10:27am

Macroscien said...

There is huge relay inside the box that may do just that, but I could not scarify my 4th multimeter.

That multimeter should already be scarify in your hands.

d1

304 posts

WA, 304 posts

10 Dec 2012 3:03pm

Macro, to change polarity you need an H-bridge circuit. So a double-pole double-throw relay (6 terminals) could technically do it, but is considered a ugly solution, because it can go through a temporary shortcircuit on either side of the H while switching... Can you describe the relay connections?

Re multimiters: buy Fluke, not the stuff on the photos.

Zachery

597 posts

Zachery

597 posts

10 Dec 2012 4:22pm

Dont bother ever trying to TIG galv even after grinding as porosity will jump straight to your tunsten tip and that is the end of that, MIG is the best option as you can weld quicker with less contamination.

FormulaNova

15100 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15100 posts

10 Dec 2012 8:45pm

d1 said...
Macro, to change polarity you need an H-bridge circuit. So a double-pole double-throw relay (6 terminals) could technically do it, but is considered a ugly solution, because it can go through a temporary shortcircuit on either side of the H while switching... Can you describe the relay connections?

Re multimiters: buy Fluke, not the stuff on the photos.

You want him to toast a Fluke?

Lend him yours if you think they are that good.

Sure they are good pieces of equipment, but I am not sure they could withstand a few KV on a 200V range.

bargearse

QLD

148 posts

bargearse

QLD, 148 posts

10 Dec 2012 11:07pm

longwinded said...

Macroscien said...

There is huge relay inside the box that may do just that, but I could not scarify my 4th multimeter.

That multimeter should already be scarify in your hands.

d1

304 posts

WA, 304 posts

11 Dec 2012 7:02am

FormulaNova said...

d1 said...
Re multimiters: buy Fluke, not the stuff on the photos.

You want him to toast a Fluke?

Lend him yours if you think they are that good.

Sure they are good pieces of equipment, but I am not sure they could withstand a few KV on a 200V range.

Haha, you should buy yourself one too, FormulaVeta, because they are that good. They did away with "ranges" in the 80ies, and are protected for up to 8 kV. Get the model 77. But you are right, not a kind of equipment you want to lend...

FormulaNova

15100 posts

FormulaNova

WA, 15100 posts

11 Dec 2012 8:17am

d1 said...

FormulaNova said...

d1 said...
Re multimiters: buy Fluke, not the stuff on the photos.

You want him to toast a Fluke?

Lend him yours if you think they are that good.

Sure they are good pieces of equipment, but I am not sure they could withstand a few KV on a 200V range.

Yeah, shows you how long since I have seen a new name brand meter :)

I imagine the price is pretty hefty. Sadly I have about six meters around the place, and almost all of them are cheapies.

I do wonder what the HV from a TIG would do to them though. Wanna try it for us?

busterwa

3782 posts

busterwa

3782 posts

11 Dec 2012 10:24am

Dont get to intimidated by a 10amp mig/tig mac. cold starts etc :40 amp 3phase.The machine you have very valuable is good but from a professional level very limited.There is a setting for Coldstarts on 3 phase Tig welders start arc craterfill etc.
Unless you want to spend 5 grand and use 3phase dont stress about your welder !
Dude your not welding pressure vessels or require xray quality !! For general fabrication it will do fine.

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