Yes......... Let's send Jonnie to Mars..

Threads like this just make me sad. We are talking about human beings. How can we turn our backs on humans that obviously need help. These people are starving, being persecuted and have a real life issues of food, water, warmth and personal safety. We have issue's of what colour tint our new board should be, which wetsuit should i buy or how can i fit a rack to hold my 4 different Stand up Paddle boards[}:)]

Do i like the boat que jumpers, no but only because I'd like to see the worst helped first and i don't think the boat people are the worst. But we need to start somewhere

How many on here sponsor over seas My family have sponsored a little girl called Miriam since 2006 . My daughter's age and they right each other monthly and have formed a great friendship. We are just sponsoring a little boy or girl for my 8 year old son to be his friend and help. He understands the responsibilities and is prepared to go with out so that his friend will have a chance at the simple necessities of life.

I think as Australians we need to start to learn humility and compassion. Or at least teach the next generation before its too late IMHO

If anyone would like to help (even thought it is such a small amount. A child for a child is better than no help at all. ) for about $45 a month it is a great teaching tool to help keep your kids grounded. Im happy to list up the company we sponsor through and they are desperate for all the help they can get at the moment.

Oh and to beat the people who say the money doesn't get there, i can guarantee it does and it is most appreciated.

Little Jon said...

fingerbone said...

What would you do,if you could ?
People complain about the gov not doing enough to stop the boat people.

I think you are confused between boat people and illegal immigrants. Everyone knows the boat people but the illegals are typically british, twenty something and can be found at the bondi backpackers

I guarantee these illegals outnumber the 'boat people' 100 -1.

myusernam said...

jbshack said...

Threads like this just make me sad. We are talking about human beings. How can we turn our backs on humans that obviously need help. These people are starving, being persecuted and have a real life issues of food, water, warmth and personal safety. We have issue's of what colour tint our new board should be, which wetsuit should i buy or how can i fit a rack to hold my 4 different Stand up Paddle boards[}:)]

Do i like the boat que jumpers, no but only because I'd like to see the worst helped first and i don't think the boat people are the worst. But we need to start somewhere

How many on here sponsor over seas My family have sponsored a little girl called Miriam since 2006 . My daughter's age and they right each other monthly and have formed a great friendship. We are just sponsoring a little boy or girl for my 8 year old son to be his friend and help. He understands the responsibilities and is prepared to go with out so that his friend will have a chance at the simple necessities of life.

I think as Australians we need to start to learn humility and compassion. Or at least teach the next generation before its too late IMHO

If anyone would like to help (even thought it is such a small amount. A child for a child is better than no help at all. ) for about $45 a month it is a great teaching tool to help keep your kids grounded. Im happy to list up the company we sponsor through and they are desperate for all the help they can get at the moment.

Oh and to beat the people who say the money doesn't get there, i can guarantee it does and it is most appreciated.

I am not saying we shouldn't accept and process asylum seekers.
However they need to be assessed and processed.
No matter how pro asylum seekers you are, the current situation appears to be less than satisfactory as we have organised crime groups taking advantage of both asylum seekers and the flaws in our current policies.
As for immigration on a whole, I would like to see less - purely from a selfish point of view. The quality of the natural enviroment is inversley proportional to the population. I can see the impacts of population growth in my area and I dont like it. The whole idea of growth is for the rich to get richer, the politicians to have more power. If we had 100 million people we wouldn't really be the lucky country anymore, just another shxthole like our northern neighbors. No fish in the sea, no forests, polution, social problems, widening gap between rich and poor. I dont know why wanting to restrict illegal immigration has to make you sad. Just because someone takes this view doesn't mean they're racist or ignorant.

I agree with you post. Im not saying everyone against boat people or refugees or immigration are racist. But some of the comments can be used to show ones true character. (im not even against the odd joke but i think the use of Emecons would also help distinguish those)

Im also not happy with the current situation. Spending millions on locking up people for 6 months is not good. (it would help if they didn't destroy there papers) The new Northam camp is incredible and i agree we need some level of comfort but i'd prefer they were processed in a shorter time and less money spent of camps.

We laugh and joke and say go away yet some countries (third world countries themselves) are having millions walk boarders asking for help I thin kour effort is pittyfull at best.

Little Jon said...

fingerbone said...

What would you do,if you could ?
People complain about the gov not doing enough to stop the boat people.

I think you are confused between boat people and illegal immigrants. Everyone knows the boat people but the illegals are typically british, twenty something can be found at the bondi backpackers and receive no tax payers help!

Small edit for you!

felixdcat said...

Little Jon said...

fingerbone said...

What would you do,if you could ?
People complain about the gov not doing enough to stop the boat people.

I think you are confused between boat people and illegal immigrants. Everyone knows the boat people but the illegals are typically british, twenty something can be found at the bondi backpackers and receive no tax payers help!

Small edit for you!

And illegal migrants rarely pay tax, so they effectively they are using tax payer provided services, such as roads, medical, etc etc. at no cost....

fingerbone said...

youngbull said...

So every seabreazer red thumbs poor old fingerbone but ya still have to comment.
If a post gets more than 200 reads or 10 reply's it should be instantly be maxed to the greener side of things. Sheep!!!

Thanks mate
I haven't given an opinion yet have a sh1t load of thumbs down...pmsl...
Hell I have more thumbs down than people who would catapult them back out to sea.
As you say....sheep...
SP said (make it clear who you wish to attack )Yes I used the incorrect term to call them illegals , but you assumed I am on the attack... also wrong....

Anyway some good reading..
thumbs up or down to me means that you cared enough to vote, that's all..cheers..

How are people sheep? Green means you agree and support the topic, I'd guess you got redded cause most people can't be bothered having the same argument with the same **** week after week, I thought this was a watersports forum, not a political soapbox.

I don't care about your views, the attack comment was meant as if you put a topic up like this people are going to attack refugees and as we've seen so far usually with half truths or dumb arguments, I just wanted you to make it clear if we were talking about asylum seeker or illegal immigrants and thought it funny you started a topic and didn't know the correct term.

And if you put a topic up why would you not comment or put your view across, did you just do it to stir people up cause you're bored. Or are you waiting to see what the majority say and jump on the bandwagon.

SP.... I thought this was a watersports forum, not a political soapbox.



Actually its ( General Discussion )
If you have a quick look you will see discussions about Mars, gun laws ,Best songs, women, Olympics etc etc.

I don't understand how you think by putting up this post it would stir people up, seems to me there are plenty of well informed people out there willing to give there point of view across.

I now know much more about this topic than I did when I posted the question ( isn't that what its all about )

youngbull said...

SP we are all sheep in a way. No keyboard warrior is going to state there real opinion as unless you have lived in these countries taken the boat trip snuggled next to 200 sweaty unhealthy deprived people, all your information comes from the media. That makes us all sheep as much we all wish to dismay this notion.

Media isn't the only source of information. Look a bit wider, the media being people only source of information is half the problem, the popular media write stories to sell papers or ad space

Only 2 reply's so far seemed to have a personnel insight into this situation.
fingerbone has put up a ? where the same people reply with the same results and the topic always ending in the same fashion, with a few new guys getting their 2cents worth, so be it. Not a bad ? Not a great ? Just a ?

I find them good reading as people always attach links and copy/paste warriors prevail.
Oh deer that makes me a sheep to but I'm no sheep.


Guess we're different, I don't like reading the same topic re hashed every month, the same thing get said over and over?

tmurray said...

How many posters on this site are immigrants? Sounds like quite a few.
I know when my family immigrated from Zimbabwe in the 1990's the 'queue' meant a 5 year wait, with acceptance not guaranteed and in our case it was probably only because my parents had in demand skills plus we had relatives and friends who were willing to sponsor us and guarantee employment.
Fortunately we were not a situation where we needed to claim asylum.

Compare this to the average Afghan refugee - firstly the Australian embassy in Afghanistan is in a secret location and doesn't accept immigration requests, secondly to apply for asylum is an illegal act, as is leaving the country without the correct documentation. If you can manage to get out of Afghanistan and do manage to apply for refugee status the average wait time is 10 to 20 years with no guarantee. During this time you are in a country that is not signatory to the UN convention on refugees - ie you have ZERO legal status - you cannot work legally and you are not a citizen. Would you sit in this queue happily? For how long? Would you learn the language of a country that is unlikely to ever accept you as a permanent resident? Would you adapt to the local religion (Islam has about as many regional variations as Christianity - few Catholics would be comfortable in a community of Born Again Christians but it's the same religion)

And finally - do you think Australia has more, less or the same obligations as the rest of the world to accept refugees. Because at the moment we're punching far below our weight in the acceptance rankings, despite being one of the most able countries in the world. Currently Niger - a small 3rd world country in Africa which struggles to feed it's own population has approximately 100,000 refugees from Mali. Puts us to shame I think.

You start talking immigration, then go on about refugees. What is it, one or the other.?
The most disadvantaged bugger stuck in a refugee camp can't get here, while a chosen well healed few, jump the queue with cash "claiming" refugee status. That's what pizzes Aussies off mostly, bloody queue jumpers disadvantaging the most vulnerable in the worlds society.
People get all bent out of shape when a crew of a sinking ships batters and screws the passengers to get off a sinking ship. However say bugger all about queue jumpers who are doing the same bloody thing. Saving his/her own neck in preference to the most vulnerable.
Refugees, that is a real struggling "I want a fair go refugee" with nothing but the shirt on his back,, bring as many as needed and we could handle
Queue jumping scum, to the back of the line

jbshack said...

Threads like this just make me sad. We are talking about human beings. How can we turn our backs on humans that obviously need help. These people are starving, being persecuted and have a real life issues of food, water, warmth and personal safety. We have issue's of what colour tint our new board should be, which wetsuit should i buy or how can i fit a rack to hold my 4 different Stand up Paddle boards[}:)]

Do i like the boat que jumpers, no but only because I'd like to see the worst helped first and i don't think the boat people are the worst. But we need to start somewhere

How many on here sponsor over seas My family have sponsored a little girl called Miriam since 2006 . My daughter's age and they right each other monthly and have formed a great friendship. We are just sponsoring a little boy or girl for my 8 year old son to be his friend and help. He understands the responsibilities and is prepared to go with out so that his friend will have a chance at the simple necessities of life.

I think as Australians we need to start to learn humility and compassion. Or at least teach the next generation before its too late IMHO

If anyone would like to help (even thought it is such a small amount. A child for a child is better than no help at all. ) for about $45 a month it is a great teaching tool to help keep your kids grounded. Im happy to list up the company we sponsor through and they are desperate for all the help they can get at the moment.

Oh and to beat the people who say the money doesn't get there, i can guarantee it does and it is most appreciated.

Good words JB.
Yes, they are humans. They almost need a version of Captain Paul Watson, that the whales and other wildlife are lucky to have.

Donations, yes I know, the money does get there, and it does make a difference. But you need to be a little bit selective on who to donate through. Possibly steer away from Unicef...

---

Unicef - From what I understand they are like a big greedy company, with a load of big and medium sized salaries to pay, and roughly speaking their profit margin goes to a good cause... It has been reported that about 15 cents per dollar makes it through the web, as true charity... Don't quote me on that though!

Simmindo we have been sponsoring a little girl for the last 6 years. She's my daughters age and we have a great relationship with her. We have committed to get her through School and help her family out along the way. I agree many organisations are just shy of criminal. [}:)]

She is not in that bad a area but her father is gone and Miriam lives with her mum and grand parents in a one room house. We send her money for her schooling but we also help with pressies and my daughter is often just posting small items she finds cute and enjoys. The two of them will be able to meet up when teenagers and maybe Miriam may be able to school exchange in Aus later down the line.

My daughter See's this as her legacy and she takes it serous. Our kids have a great life and im glad of that but i also want them to be sympathetic to others less fortunate

Now my son is stepping up and i couldn't be prouder of him

Boats again... I am game -- again!! psst feel free to refine - with equivalent style!!

The point seems to be loss of control. We control all other forms of entrance to the country but do not seem to get the approach right with boats.

I would provide say 3 regular ferry routes run by customs / border protection. Say from Sumatra, Sri Lanka, and India. I would charge but at 1/4 to 1/2 the rate of the boat people rates (i.e. not too loss making). I would insist on a minimum of identify paperworks - if you can fly into Jakarta get through immigration you have to have some ID.

The volume of boat people would be part of our humanitarian intake - at least double the current few thousand - say 20-25,000. I would balance this number against those currently coming through the airports. So the overall immigration numbers are stable.

Anyone intercepted / arriving on a boat would be returned on the next ferry to the country of origin. So you come on our service or not at all.

You control the numbers, you remove the stupidity and expense of the current system which has stuffed politics in this country for too long. You remove the plight of unsafe boats.

Once in the country a visa would, act as a permit to seek work, basic social services, and support structure to help integrate them. They would be eligible to apply for full citizenship after x months (say 36 as a starting point). Any criminal convictions whilst under the Visa, back to home country. Bonus incentives during this 36 month period to settle away from capital cities. Yarda Yarda Yarda..

So accept the concept as a fact of life - immigrants will always flow here.

And finally we can re-embrace the second verse of our national anthem trashed so unceremoniously by Howard's detention camp policy and still shamefully lingering on[}:)].
"For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;"

And to put things in perspective...
I recommend listening to the following... covers a lot of ground - very smart analysis.. which if you were politically aware from say early eighties U should enjoy. Governments & migration policies get a guernsey but in the bigger scheme of things..
"Australia's economy is the envy of the world, but George Megalogenis asks: just where did we go right?"
2 part podcast..
mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/brisbane/conversations/201202/r898884_9107994.mp3
and
mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/brisbane/conversations/201202/r899790_9126866.mp3


Cheers

AP

tmurray said...

How many posters on this site are immigrants? Sounds like quite a few.
I know when my family immigrated from Zimbabwe in the 1990's the 'queue' meant a 5 year wait, with acceptance not guaranteed and in our case it was probably only because my parents had in demand skills plus we had relatives and friends who were willing to sponsor us and guarantee employment.
Fortunately we were not a situation where we needed to claim asylum.

Hey my colleague/flat mate is from Zimbabwe too, via Canada. Born in Zimbabwe, Indian background with a Russian name, a Canadian accent and an Australian passport.

Is this issue purely smoke and mirrors and purely a distraction to keep us from the important issues?
Last year we "let in" about 4000 asylum seekers out of 185000 immigrants.
That's less than 2% of our intake. More than 75000 people from the US or UK overstayed their VISA. Aren't these 75000 over-stayers more of a problem than the 4000 refugees? Refugees only want to come here because life in their own country is so bad with no education or medicine. War maybe is also driving them. Look at Vietnam. In the 70s and 80's we got tonnes of Vietnamese boat people as they were escaping war and now we get none. Obviously the solution is to improve conditions in the country of origin. Besides shouldn't we be more concerned with issues like global warming and pollution?