Fed up with traffic jams, try cycling !

> 10 years ago
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busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
6 May 2012 8:11am
Pass. I have enough aches and pains already.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
6 May 2012 9:27am


That bike is so ILLEGAL in Australia.
If you were to ride that you'd be plastered all over the news with headlies like:

DRAMATIC SCENES AS POLICE CHASE DOWN BIKIE GANG MEMBER RIDING AT SPEEDS IN-EXCESS OF 60KMH!!!

BIKIE GANGS NOW RIDING SOUPED ELECTRIC TORPEDOES!

GANGS NOW GOING DANGEROUSLY ENVIRONMENTAL!


...Wait a second buster! Wasn't it you who kept dis'ing us riders???



James
James
WA
549 posts
WA, 549 posts
6 May 2012 8:35am
I think the bikes are awesome, if it was'nt for the 8 - 10 k US dollar price tag, I'd have one ,J
Jradedmondo
Jradedmondo
NSW
637 posts
NSW, 637 posts
6 May 2012 1:52pm
James said...

I think the bikes are awesome, if it was'nt for the 8 - 10 k US dollar price tag, I'd have one ,J


would be a lot of fun but yeah the price is a bit of a killer,

Don't really think the police would like it that much going up to 80km on a bike,
would be interesting to see if you would have to register them or anything like that considering they are basically a motor bike

i wouldn't really want to ride them around my place, not at the moment with all of the pot holes, if you hit one you'd get screwed up going at that speed and probably break your bike
would still be fun though

Jarryd
Marvin
Marvin
WA
725 posts
WA, 725 posts
6 May 2012 1:39pm
Its a motor bike, and quite a powerful one at that. [edit: read, power to weight ratio]

There will have to be rules about the distinction to 'cycling' very soon.

That said, I saw a GreenSpeed the other day with a rear electric hub motor and a very large battery - looked very smick.
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
6 May 2012 2:21pm
You're only allowed a maximum power of 200 watts for an electric bike before it loses its bicycle status.
Anything over 200 watts has to be licensed as a motorbike, with all the associated requirements and regulations complied with.
200 watts will push you along at just under 30km/hr on a flat path with no wind.
Any headwind or slight uphill slope knocks that back to about 22km/hr or slower for stronger winds or steeper hills.

There are various people trying to get the maximum power allowed up to 360 watts.

If you're happy with that sort of performance then you would be better off to buy a honda postie bike. 110cc and cruise at 70km/hr no problem. They use almost no fuel and are the most reliable bike engine that honda make. The motor is almost indestructible because they just don't have the power to damage themselves.

Then if you wanted some excitement you could look flysurfer up and run into his bicycle and bend his front wheel.
Apparently that's the done thing these days.
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
6 May 2012 2:48pm
currently in W.A. power assisted bikes are limited to 200w max, (hadnt heard about the limit being raised) and around 25km/h top speed.
I presume the 25km/h is on roads- not shared footpaths
Legal to use on shared footpaths and bike paths and roads.
bike helmet required, lighting as per regular bikes, must be 16 years of age or older.

stephen.
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
7 May 2012 11:34am
I have been riding electric bikes for years I use it for just about everything for my personal transport .it suits me as i live close to my work but there is lots of congestion on the roads and an ave spped of 25 -30 km per hour is as fast or faster than the ave speed i can achieve in a car .i don't have to slug on through shopping centres llooking for a park and pull up at the front of anywhere i want to go . i fill up my 4 wd once per month ,yes its a lazy bike but i don't have a pedal car .I use it for transport and assist it so I am getting more excercise than if I was driving . Over the years i have espoused its virtues but it usually falls on deaf ears .most Aussies i recokon would drive to the dunny if they could .I am so sick of this 200 watt vs 300 watt whatever bollocks .A bike at the top of a steep hill has power potential well ove 300 watts .probably more like 1000 watts at least and speed potential of up to 100 km/h .I have been in touch with the boffins at the RTA over the years to find out what there issue actually is .if it's speed then why not legislate that a bike is not allowed to do more than 30 kph .the thing is a fit rider on a racing bike can do at least 40 km/h .I reckon this is probably safer to have bikes closer to traffic speed 9having said that ave traffic speeds in cities in peak hour are now lucky to be 25 km/h .meanwhile while there is talk of power limits the whole issue is confusing no one gives electric bikes a look in and we continue to be cursed with worsening traffic .50% of trips in a car are less than 5 km a high percentage of those trip have one occupant .ideally done on a bike or e bike .While petrol is relatively cheap the car will rule even if drivers a grovelling along at speeds that are pathetic.If 30 km /h is too slow a friend of mine has a 1000 watt electric bike kit .with batteries it cost $600 .It can do 60 km/h and has a range of about 15 km .A fill up cost 20 cents
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
7 May 2012 8:18pm
Mr float said...
friend of mine has a 1000 watt electric bike kit .with batteries it cost $600 .It can do 60 km/h and has a range of about 15 km .A fill up cost 20 cents

I have similar 1000W in the hub motor with 48 V 20 AH LiFePo4 battery
Acceleration is phenomenal but maximum speed cut off by controller to 50 km/h.\
Without any problem similar motor could be installed in front wheel for extra $200, but I am not really sure if anybody want to ride 2KW simple bike like that.

Good exercise for me, since instead of expected 90-100 km, battery last for 10-15 km only so every time I go somewhere I need to pedal all way back home and it takes 3x much effort as without any motor at all.


MavericK040
MavericK040
WA
583 posts
WA, 583 posts
7 May 2012 6:56pm
I have looked into the stealth bikes, from memory they are actually Australian and not intended to be ridden on the road. They are mountainbikes with heaps of suspension travel and massive brakes.

the bomber is around AU$8000 and they make a cheaper one called the fighter at around AU$6000

they also make one that has no pedals and is basically an electric motorbike called the hurricane.

the bomber and hurricane have 4500watt brushless DC hub motors and Lithium batteries. they claim a range of 55 KM with a max speed of 80Kph on the hurricane, i dont know if thats 55 kms at 80kph or what the ratio is. The hurricane also has regenerative braking for added battery range.

I personally would rather ride a hurricane with lights and indicators on the road going the same speed as the cars ( but be restricted to 80K or less zones ) than ride a poxy scooter struggling to do 50 in an 80 zone which allot of silly teenagers do here.

stealthelectricbikes.com/wp-login.php?redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fstealthelectricbikes.com%2Fwp-admin%2F&reauth=1
stealthelectricbikes.com.au/fighter.html
stealthelectricbikes.com.au/bomber.html

I WANT ONE hahaha

Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
7 May 2012 9:36pm
If I lost my license, I would buy one of these in a heart beat... Play the ignorance card and tell everyone it is 45 watts !!

The claimed distance ranges sound great too.
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
7 May 2012 9:52pm
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
7 May 2012 10:15pm
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
8 May 2012 12:16am
pweedas said...

You're only allowed a maximum power of 200 watts for an electric bike before it loses its bicycle status.
Anything over 200 watts has to be licensed as a motorbike, with all the associated requirements and regulations complied with.
200 watts will push you along at just under 30km/hr on a flat path with no wind.
Any headwind or slight uphill slope knocks that back to about 22km/hr or slower for stronger winds or steeper hills.

There are various people trying to get the maximum power allowed up to 360 watts.

If you're happy with that sort of performance then you would be better off to buy a honda postie bike. 110cc and cruise at 70km/hr no problem. They use almost no fuel and are the most reliable bike engine that honda make. The motor is almost indestructible because they just don't have the power to damage themselves.

Then if you wanted some excitement you could look flysurfer up and run into his bicycle and bend his front wheel.
Apparently that's the done thing these days.

Farker also bent the fork and don't forget the bruise!


FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
8 May 2012 12:23am
Does anyone have any links to kits?
I looked a elation bikes a while back, but they seem to have gone out of business.

I want to fit one to the Mrs bike cos she rides SOO SLOOOW... it's like cycling with Ms Dazzy.
Mr float
Mr float
NSW
3452 posts
NSW, 3452 posts
8 May 2012 12:28am
Macroscien said...

Mr float said...
friend of mine has a 1000 watt electric bike kit .with batteries it cost $600 .It can do 60 km/h and has a range of about 15 km .A fill up cost 20 cents

I have similar 1000W in the hub motor with 48 V 20 AH LiFePo4 battery
Acceleration is phenomenal but maximum speed cut off by controller to 50 km/h.\
Without any problem similar motor could be installed in front wheel for extra $200, but I am not really sure if anybody want to ride 2KW simple bike like that.

Good exercise for me, since instead of expected 90-100 km, battery last for 10-15 km only so every time I go somewhere I need to pedal all way back home and it takes 3x much effort as without any motor at all.





Range claims by spruikers are always questionable IMO eg 1000 watt motor 10 ah 48 volt battery (therefore drawing 21 amps )at full discharge should give 25 mins mins of power at say 50 km/h so 20km range at best (the maths is a bit dodgy but its late and you should get my drift)
Re stealth yes its sexy and fast and expensive but as you can see there are alternates that look a bit clunky but give plenty of bang for the buck .Believe me riding a 1000 watt electric bike kit on a standard bike is a real eye opener .
NDH47
NDH47
NSW
102 posts
NSW, 102 posts
8 May 2012 12:42am
FlySurfer said...

Does anyone have any links to kits?
I looked a elation bikes a while back, but they seem to have gone out of business.

I want to fit one to the Mrs bike cos she rides SOO SLOOOW... it's like cycling with Ms Dazzy.


www.goldenmotor.com/
hyenaelectricbikes.com/

Bloke at work has a kids scooter set up with electric hub in the front wheel.
The thing does about 55kph.
He hasn't owned a car in the last five years.
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
8 May 2012 12:09pm
Mr float said...
Range claims by spruikers are always questionable


I think that range about 100 km with 48V/20AH should be possible
as long as motor is used as addition to pedaling, speed is limited to lower - ie 33 km/h , terrain is flat.
But for any higher performance I think that shouldn't be electric pushbike but electric motorcycle or scooter.
Even this bomber is a bit suicidal on the road, but if build around ordinary motorcycle scheme nothing that exciting performance in comparison to my Honda CBR.
Bomber is just off road freak and shouldn't be on the road anyway.
I am always scared to death when driving a my car and have neighborhood kids riding mountain bikes on our suburban road along ,across and all the ways around.
Riding high performance motorcycle require special skills and safety conscious.
Bomber on road is just next disaster accident on the road to happend.
If somebody is going to use on Bomber proper motorcycle helmet, Kevlar pants and jacket, heavy protective boots ?
K Dog
K Dog
VIC
1847 posts
VIC, 1847 posts
8 May 2012 12:14pm
NDH47 said...

FlySurfer said...

Does anyone have any links to kits?
I looked a elation bikes a while back, but they seem to have gone out of business.

I want to fit one to the Mrs bike cos she rides SOO SLOOOW... it's like cycling with Ms Dazzy.


www.goldenmotor.com/
hyenaelectricbikes.com/

Bloke at work has a kids scooter set up with electric hub in the front wheel.
The thing does about 55kph.
He hasn't owned a car in the last five years.


pics or banned!!!
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
8 May 2012 12:23pm
1000 W motor on pushbike shouldn't be used to reach max speed but to go uphill.
So maybe solution is rise the allowed power on pushbike from 200W to 1000w but with speed limiter setup say at 30 km/h for electric booster.
I can't see how 200W could climb my roads if 1000W is straggling unless you employ whole set of gears and ride 5 km uphill.

getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
8 May 2012 11:21am
I did the leccy bike thing (briefly) about a year ago.

I bought an elation kit as it seemed the smartest set-up (driving thru front cluster - and therfore using gears).
A workmate had the 1st model and had no probs for years. 2nd model well received.
Unfortunately to keep costs down the 3rd model, which I waited months for, was plagued by Chinese manufacture problems and 'unauthorised modifications' to the Aussie designer's plans.

Elation kit turned out to be a total lemon and cost me +3 months of breakdowns/returns/arguments/breakdowns/returns/arguments with the owner/designer.
He was a bit of a w@nker and not totally truthful IMO.
In the end the local supplier (top bloke) gave me a full refund - despite the w@nker designer leaving his supplier up the creek.

A few months later elation closed it's doors. I doubt the owner is covering it's alleged 12 mth warranties etc.

Lesson learnt from that was K.I.S.S.

In the end I used half of my $1000 refund to buy a decent quality superceded MTB at a great price, The new beast has road biased tyres, and I have been waaaayyy happier and no reliability problems. Does a great commuting job and recently took on some serious trails (with standard road tyres) and it was great too.


IMO:
Front hub systems are overpriced generally.

Hub systems are ok and good for what they are - not for me though.

I would go a rear hub as I didn't like the 'drive' coming from the front in the wet or sand etc.

My system was a 300w. This was not legal, although I reckon 300w is a good level of power/torque/speed/mileage that most numbskulls could safely control.

1000w systems (or anything higher than the legal 200w) are asking for trouble. No good for mileage. Also potential for accidents, fines and legal ramifications if a pedestrian etc gets cleaned up..

K.I.S.S.




BTW - I initially wrote glowing reports on SB about elation.. then things went not so well..
By the time it had all worked itself out, months had gone by, the SB thread had died and been locked off due to inactivity. I couldn't correct previous happy reports on the elations system. I knew the designer was unable to get his products out of China and into punter's hands too - so I hope no-one got stung by elation.


Happy as using good ol' pedal power on my middle of the range MTB these days.

Electric or 100% pedal - anything is better than grid lock in a smelly car.
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
8 May 2012 11:25am
FlySurfer said...

Does anyone have any links to kits?
I looked a elation bikes a while back, but they seem to have gone out of business.

I want to fit one to the Mrs bike cos she rides SOO SLOOOW... it's like cycling with Ms Dazzy.


We did the homework a few years ago- so prices have probably changed, but an electric conversion for a bike-or trike cost almost the same as buying a complete brand new electric bike/ trike.

stephen.

Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
8 May 2012 4:17pm
My 1000W kit wasn't expensive $215 ( battery not included)



And a bit of warning ! When you do search for battery on eBay for electric bike or other power tools don't but one that doesn't exist yet !
5000mAh looks like scam at real capacity will be mostly half of that



pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
8 May 2012 3:58pm
Macroscien said...

1000 W motor on pushbike shouldn't be used to reach max speed but to go uphill.
So maybe solution is rise the allowed power on pushbike from 200W to 1000w but with speed limiter setup say at 30 km/h for electric booster.
I can't see how 200W could climb my roads if 1000W is straggling unless you employ whole set of gears and ride 5 km uphill.




Maybe your 1000 Watts is not 1000 watts. Probably chinese watts which are arbitrarilly smaller.
I bought an electric bike a few years ago. It's got a 360 watt hub motor running off 48 volt battery pack of Lithium cells with the controller regulating it back to 200 Watts to comply with W.A. regulations.
It can go up quite steep hills but not very fast.
If I don't pedal at all then it growls up at about 10km/hr but it sucks a lot of power out of the battery doing that so mostly I assist with a bit of peddling.
I practice, you very rarely just sit there without peddling because your butt gets more sore when you don't pedal than when you do. Plus, if your blasting down the cycleway there seems to be an inbuilt compulsion for your feet to pedal along with the motion, a bit like singing in the shower I guess. (which I also find hard not to do)

I've checked the speeds on a GPS and anything over about 25km/hr doesn't feel all that safe, mainly due to a lack of suspension on the back. The front has suspension but even that is not all that effective if I hit a pothole or anything similar.
All up, the 200 watts is a good compromise. It gives a good range (about 40km with a bit of peddling) and the top speed is all that's needed.
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
8 May 2012 8:07pm
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
8 May 2012 8:11pm
Simondo
Simondo
VIC
8025 posts
VIC, 8025 posts
8 May 2012 8:12pm
KTM's electric dirt bike.

http://www.ktm.com/us/freeride/freeride-e.html
www.ktm.com/at/freeride/freeride-e.html

(at is Austria, and us is USA.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
8 May 2012 10:46pm
NDH47 said...

FlySurfer said...

Does anyone have any links to kits?
I looked a elation bikes a while back, but they seem to have gone out of business.

I want to fit one to the Mrs bike cos she rides SOO SLOOOW... it's like cycling with Ms Dazzy.


www.goldenmotor.com/
hyenaelectricbikes.com/

Bloke at work has a kids scooter set up with electric hub in the front wheel.
The thing does about 55kph.
He hasn't owned a car in the last five years.


Dude, I don't want to kill her!
Just something to help her keep up.

But the hyena electric bikes could be interesting for me [}:)]
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
8 May 2012 9:45pm
I drafted one on my road bike home from Perth one evening.
Funny though he didn't get away from me at all even up the hill in fact I could have overtook him on one hill.

I say get a pushie cycle everywhere and soon you get fit and can ride as quick as a legal electric bike.
FlySurfer
FlySurfer
NSW
4460 posts
NSW, 4460 posts
12 May 2012 1:59pm


... if you're male, say good bye to your nuts.


Audi at the 2012 W?rthersee Tour

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This show bike is futuristic at the very first glance - a bike for tomorrow and beyond. All its components, even the pedals, have been shaped by Audi's designers, for instance the 26-inch wheels made from CFRP that weigh only 600 grams (1.32 lb) each and have innovative large-area blade-pattern spokes.

The Audi e-bike W?rthersee's ultra-light carbon-fiber frame weighs only 1,600 grams (3.53 lb). It makes use of bionic principles derived from nature. Material reinforcements are needed only at the points where loads actually occur. The swinging arm for the rear wheel is also made of CFRP. All in all, the Audi e-bike W?rthersee represents the full extent of the brand's expertise in ultra-lightweight design.

The rear wheel is driven by a chain. The electric motor is a permanent magnet synchronous machine; it is located at the lowest point on the frame and drives the bottom bracket shaft directly. Maximum torque at the rear wheel is in the region of 250 Nm (184.39 lb-ft). Peak output from the electric motor is 2.3 kW - a new top value on the e-bike scene. The complete bicycle weighs only 21 kg (46.30 lb), equivalent to a power-weight ratio of 9 kg (19.84 lb) per kilowatt, or 7 kg (15.43 lb) per horsepower - another record-breaking value.

The lithium-ion battery is housed in the frame; it weighs about 5 kg (11.02 lb) and operates at a voltage of 48 V. Its capacity is 530 Wh and it can be fully recharged from a 230 V supply in two and a half hours. As an alternative it can be easily detached from the bike and replaced by a recharged battery.

The rider of the Audi e-bike W?rthersee can choose between five programs; these either support use of the pedals or permit electric-only travel.

In the 'Pure' mode the rider only propels the bike by means of the pedals. In the 'Pedelec' mode the rider is assisted by the electric motor; a top speed of up to 80 km/h (50 mph) can be reached and the action radius is between 50 and 70 kilometers (31 and 44 miles). In the 'eGrip' program the Audi e-bike W?rthersee can be ridden with the electric motor providing all the necessary power; in this case at speeds up to 50 km/h (31 mph). The rider controls the power output from the electric motor at a twistgrip and can configure it at the on-board computer.

In 'Wheelie' mode the power flow is electronically controlled in order to assist the rider when the front wheel is in the air. Alternative operating modes are available, and can be selected by smartphone or directly at the e-bike: either 'Power Wheelie' with an adjustable wheelie angle for less skilled riders, or 'Balanced Wheelie' for those with more experience. In the latter mode the rider's balance is maintained electronically: as his or her weight is displaced forward or back, this is counteracted by either braking or accelerating the electric motor.

In this way the rider can influence the speed when riding on the rear wheel only by shifting his or her weight. Leaning forward speeds up the bike, leaning back slows it down. If the rider wants to use the pedals and maintain a constant power input, the training mode can be chosen. The electric motor then makes good the extra power needed when riding into the wind or up a hill, so that the rider's performance can be kept constant for training purposes.

The Audi e-bike W?rthersee has a varied specification. The nine-speed hydraulically actuated gear shift has a very rapid sequential action, similar to the R tronic transmission in an Audi R8. The two disk brakes are also applied hydraulically. Seat height can be continuously adjusted at a handlebar control, even while the bike is being ridden. The front fork uses the more complex 'upside-down' principle; it is air-sprung, with 130 mm (5.12 in) of travel. LEDs are used for powerful lighting: the front light is integrated into the handlebar, the rear light into the seat.

The on-board computer is located in the frame top tube and operated using a touchscreen. Among the functions it provides are riding mode selection, recording trick sequences and adjustment of various e-bike functions such as electric pedaling assistance and lighting. The display shows road speed, distance covered, state of battery charge, energy consumption and slope angle at any given moment.

The rider's smartphone communicates by WLAN with the bike's computer. The antenna is integrated into the front brake line. To ride the bike, the immobilizer is deactivated at the smartphone; the bike is then ready for use. In addition, by way of the interface between the bike's computer and the smartphone, video images recorded while riding or even complete trick sequences can be transmitted to the Internet or the trainer. Every trick performed successfully qualifies for success points. As the number of points increases, the rider is rewarded and at the same time the challenge level rises. The total Internet ranking can be compared with friends or other riders. The rider can locate them by way of Facebook entries that can be shown on the Audi e-bike W?rthersee's display.
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