You think you're important enough to have the laws of Physics broken, just to screw with you?..

If you were struck down by a meteorite tomorrow, the atoms in your body would have been on a collision course with that rock for 13.75 (+/- .11) billion years...

The Universe is indifferent and predetermined, get some perspective..

d2o7bfz2il9cb7.cloudfront.net/main-qimg-427fde28468f15149d7055c1872aa489

...and then look up in AWE that we living organisms that represent such a tiny speck in the grand scheme of the Universe are able to look up and be aware of our place in this magnificent Universe.

Silver linings exist wherever you choose to see them. Change the way you look at things...and the things you look at change.

newguy said...

Makes me realize whatever I do I guess it's not gonna change anything.

Well, you can still change lots of things, like wear a meteorite helmet, but that is a decision which was predetermined.. Thats why the notion of 'free will' is so bogus, because everything is set in motion and for the future to change course, the laws of physics need to be changed which is impossible..

Newguy,
Google AC Grayling UK philosopher, ( his latest book is called The Good Book) I love his views on religion and life in general.


Grayling's own viewpoint, as does his definition of religion which he says is “centred upon belief in the existence of supernatural agencies or entities in the universe; and not merely in their existence, but in their interest in human beings on this planet; and not merely their interest, but their particularly detailed interest in what humans wear, what they eat, when they eat it, what they read or see, what they treat as clean and unclean, who they have sex with and how and when; and so for a multitude of other things.” Later in the book, as in above, Grayling is keen to reiterate that the main principle of religion is based on the belief in the “supernatural” and therefore belongs in “the same bin,” with “notions of deities, fairies and goblins”.

GalahOnTheBay said...

newguy said...

Whats your take on life?

My take is simple, only two things:
- No point worrying about things you can't influence / change.
- Life is what you make of it.

^^^^ +1 My philosophy! Shall we start a club! ^^^^

SomeOtherGuy said...


Physics includes Quantum Theory. The universe is based on matter and forces which are based on subatomic particles which are subject to quantum theory which requires that everything is based on probabilities. So you may be hit on the head by that meteorite. On the other hand there is an extremely small (but non-zero) chance that it'll pass through your body as if your body wasn't there and hit the ground beneath you. And that is a random event.

There is a small chance you could walk thru your office wall, but nobody ever tries it.. How much is the matter we interact with daily subject to sub atomic particles and their randomness?

So no, not everything happens for a reason. Lots of things happen for no reason at all. The notion of "free will" underpins the whole universe.

From Sam Harris,

Q; Do we have free will? - Answer: no. “The problem is free will is just a non-starter, philosophically and scientifically. Unlike many other illusions, there is no way you can describe the universe so as to make sense of this notion of free will. Now there are many people who have artfully changed the subject and tried to get a version of free will that makes some scientific sense. But this is not what people actually mean by free will. What people mean is that they—their conscious selves—are free to chose their actions You choose what you want; you choose what you will to do. . . they still feel that at every moment, there is freedom to choose. Now what can this mean? From the position of conscious awareness of your inner life, this can't be true. Everything you're consciously aware of, at every moment, is the result of causes of which you're not aware, over which you exert no conscious control.”


Free will, nope..

So if we don't have free will then we are organic machines, preprogrammed, and everything is happening for a reason.

[bubbling sound in background]

Personally, I like the idea that the same way we evolved from single cell organisms, technology will evolve from us and become the 7th kingdom. The Technium.

This is a clip of Sam talking further about free will, he is a Neuroscientist and explains it quite well.. 4 minutes of mind=blown if anybody here thinks they are in control of their own brain..

poor relative said...

I believe its all about choices.
The choice you make today affects the outcome for you and those around you tomorrow.

I keep choosing the same thing but nothing changes

nevertheless nobody but me decided to throw up that image.

He is not claiming it is not you making the decisions, he is pointing out those decisions we make are not 'free' choices..

Think about one of those Choose your own adventure books, you decide weather your character robs the bank with (A) a sword, or (B) a shotgun.. There is no alternate reality where you choose (B) a shotgun.. It was always going to be the sword..

The notion that we have free will is important, Adam can be blamed for eating the Apple because he had free will, But in reality, he was influenced by the curiosity God gave him, that evil wench Eve, and a talking snake... He didn't stand a chance, there was no way he would have decided not to eat the Apple.. This notion that we have free will is apparently why that big Dumbass in the clouds keeps sending earthquakes and tsunamis, to punish us for the free will we keep using to make choices that piss him off..

barn said...

This is a clip of Sam talking further about free will, he is a Neuroscientist and explains it quite well.. 4 minutes of mind=blown if anybody here thinks they are in control of their own brain..

Maybe my brain is too puny, but I think you're confusing "Predetermined" and "Lack of free will"
Sam Harris in your clip even talks about randomness at the 1:20-1:50 mark.

If, right now, you happened to know the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe (and therefore ignored the Heissenburg uncertainty principle), I don't think you could ever predict the state and velocity of those particles just a few minutes later due to the sheer randomness of quantum theory.
You could say what state it probably would be in, but you couldn't be certain and no one ever could.

there is a common saying : sh!t happens ........... I tend to disagree.....




v




v



v

sh!t does just happen , but rrrsoles usually cause it !!!

barn said...

Think about one of those Choose your own adventure books, you decide weather your character robs the bank with (A) a sword, or (B) a shotgun.. There is no alternate reality where you choose (B) a shotgun.. It was always going to be the sword..

Prove it - roll back time and see if I make a different choice. You'd probably need to repeat the experiment a number of times to get a statistically significant result.

Or explain to me what physical forces constrain me to only ever choose the sword.

He is not claiming it is not you making the decisions, he is pointing out those decisions we make are not 'free' choices..

He is saying that my choice is not "free" because a choice was already made at some neural level before I made a consciously choice. But he is assuming that that neural level isn't part of my intellect. That some other level of which I'm not aware is pre-selecting my choices for me so my choices are constrained.

I think the notion that these things are done without our awareness is a bit specious. That neural level that is making the choice certainly isn't part of anyone else's consciousness! It's still part of me. I still make the choice.

Why isn't that neural level just part of the process that my brain uses in choosing Ricky Gervais? I've been asked to make ONE choice so some part of me has to do the selecting. I probably know tens of thousands of potential candidates but I have to choose ONE. Just because Ricky doesn't pop into my head as a potential choice doesn't mean I don't have free will. I could, for example, reject Albert Einstein (the person I did choose) and force another choice. There's nothing preventing me from choosing Ricky Gervais.

SomeOtherGuy said...



Prove it - roll back time and see if I make a different choice. You'd probably need to repeat the experiment a number of times to get a statistically significant result.

Or explain to me what physical forces constrain me to only ever choose the sword.

That's the problem, we can't run the experiment more than once. But at the time you might have seen a sword in a window somewhere, or watched the pawnshop scene in Pulp Fiction, or whatever.. Those are some external influences.. On the firing of neurons to randomly choose A or B, those nurons are chemical reactions which are pre determined by chemistry, the chemicals react to chose A for whatever reason, it would be breaking the laws of physics for them to choose B..

This is still you making the call, but on close inspection, there is no 'Free will'..

He is saying that my choice is not "free" because a choice was already made at some neural level before I made a consciously choice. But he is assuming that that neural level isn't part of my intellect. That some other level of which I'm not aware is pre-selecting my choices for me so my choices are constrained.

He is saying the choice is not 'free' because it picked X at the neural level, for whatever reason... The point is X was chosen, Y was not, and under that scenario X was always going to be chosen..

I think the notion that these things are done without our awareness is a bit specious. That neural level that is making the choice certainly isn't part of anyone else's consciousness! It's still part of me. I still make the choice.

You do make the choice, but you don't have a choice in what choice you make.. You will choose X and there is nothing you can do about it,

"ahh, so I will choose Y, just to spite X"

"But, weren't you always going to choose Y, to spite X?"

SomeOtherGuy said...That's no different to the low level bits of my mind that controls my breathing without my thinking about it. But they are still part of my mind and if I CHOOSE to, I can stop breathing.

That's free will.

I remember reading something like that. The idea was that your subconscious makes decisions but your conscious mind has a "veto"