pweedas said...

^^^^ Gestalt
The only difference it's making in the eu is that it's making people feel good about their high energy useage. Same as washing out dog food tins makes us feel we are saving the planet because we recycle.
Give people a little bit of pain so that they can believe they are doing their bit to save the planet.

If the eu reduces their energy use by 20% (and they haven't but say they did,) then this would be totally negated within 2 years by the increasing energy use of China and/or India.

So the "real issue" as I keep saying (writing) is to put some meaningful effort into finding a long term solution to providing cheap and clean energy for the world.
This can be financed by your carbon tax or environment tax or your cigarette tax or any tax you like, but it has to be done.
You can see what science can accomplish when given the incentives to do so by looking at the huge advances in technology whenever we need a better way to blow each other off the planet.
At the start of world war 2 we had wood and canvas aeroplanes that could barely fly 300 miles, and oversized firecrackers for bombs.
Six years later we had metal airliners that could fly 2000 miles and drop atomic bombs that could blow away whole cities. This was all possible due to government paid and directed science.
Plus jet engines and misiles that we could throw across continents at those we didn't like.

And now, when we are faced with "the greatest moral challenge of our time", our action is,... to invest $43 billion of taxpayers money in a high speed porn network.

not sure about that, while everyone sits around whinging about how a carbon (or similar) tax won't work the euros have a system running that has had a lot of the bugs ironed out and IS reducing polution. in a major way also.

i'm onboard about government funding for alternative energy, i really think the government missed a golden opportunity with the gfc. they could have invested millions in green schemes. i could never understand why they didn't heavily fund a solar panel rollout instead of insulation, and why they didn't subsidise green car purchases among other things.

cisco said...
The carbon tax may work –in a 1000 years

Cisco, cisco... wtf you talking about Willis? I expected more from you. It aint ever gona work for the climate, but it will got to work on us from day 1.

I've already explained the physics of CO2, and who is behind this drive, now I feel I need to tell you why so many informed people are behind it.

Our whole world economy is driven by cheap abundant carbon based fuels. Everything we do and make requires them.
A number of companies have reported a plateauing of oil production, and some a decline.
The globalist want to create a one world government.
To create nwo owg they need to flatten the world... ie try and level purchasing power.
If the oil runs out before they've got the nwo owg... the game is up.
Solution: put the breaks on rich countries, and speed up development of poor...

No sane person believes a tax on CO2 is going to do anything to or for the climate. But what it does do, is give them extra resources to pursue World Government.
Basically if your a socialist, it's the right thing to do. Preserve resources, help the poor.

I'm not a socialist, and I realize the MASSES of humans going through the bounty of this planet rather fast. I also realize chances are I'll still be alive when the **** hits the fan.

So I propose we fined another planet, or a virus that kill humas who's last gene nucleic acid sequence ends with G or T.

I'd be a socialist if there weren't so many of us.

A carbon tax, is a direct tax... there is NO way to get out of paying it. The price of a ton of CO2 will be defined by the globalist, just like a barrel of oil. So it doesn't matter you you vote for, they'll have no control over it.

Sorry wait... there is a way of not paying it and that is to be a refugee or unemployed... then other people pay for it

So Cisco, go postal or bend over and enjoy the nwo.

pweedas said...
At last an easy question.
Show me where a new tax on anything reduced it's use.
Did the petrol parity pricing back in the 70's reduce our use of petrol? NO!
And that was a big tax.
Did the 10% GST on everything reduce how much we consumed? No!
Does the ever increasing tax on cigareettes stop people smoking? No!
Does an increase in alcohol tax reduce alcohol consumption? No!

Will adding a carbon tax to petrol prices make people use less petrol? No!
Will adding a carbon tax to power prices make people use less power? No!

Given that modern society is dependent on transport and heavy power consumption, the only answer is to find a way to provide those things in a clean and sustainable way. And windmills and solar cells is not it.

Dude you obviously haven't had it tough.

Let me demonstrate some basic maths.

You have $200 to live for a week.
With that $200 you can buy homebrand things and get to the shops with a 1990 holden barina.
Your lords impose a carbon tax and now you have decide:
A.- Go hungry, risk getting sick.
B.- Sell the car for a 6 pack, walk to the shops, save some money.

Any new tax, always has an impact, where somebody has to downsize and in some instances on to the streets.

log man said...

It was a photo finish there. Who wasted the the the more time, flysurfer in writing that or me reading it.

Seemed pretty logical to me but of course you are one of those guys who holds some sort of faith in our leaders in Canberra bineg able to make a difference.

log man said...

If you're living on 200 bucks a week then you'll get tax relief for the carbon tax. But I'll bet your not and your just trying some sort of "straw man" situation. If you are living on 200 bucks a week , go to centrelink explain you situation( actually DONT explain you situation, especially that bit about "world government"). Just say your unemployed. I think new start allowance is about $230 bucks a week. that should keep you going while a climate scientist position becomes available seeing your right up with all that CO2 theory.

I'm speechless

log man said...

It was a photo finish there. Who wasted the the the more time, flysurfer in writing that or me reading it.

I'm shocked logman, you can actually read....?

FlySurfer said...

log man said...

If you're living on 200 bucks a week then you'll get tax relief for the carbon tax. But I'll bet your not and your just trying some sort of "straw man" situation. If you are living on 200 bucks a week , go to centrelink explain you situation( actually DONT explain you situation, especially that bit about "world government"). Just say your unemployed. I think new start allowance is about $230 bucks a week. that should keep you going while a climate scientist position becomes available seeing your right up with all that CO2 theory.

I'm speechless

this one cracked me up log man.

FlySurfer said...
The globalist want to create a one world government.

Sounds good. Tell me more.

So I posed the question to a globalist... why are you doing this through deception?... the reaction was there is no deception the world is in imminent danger, this transcends boarders and there are no structures to manage it.

What about the issues that are there and present, like pollution, deforestation and marine destruction?... WELL to "tackle" these issues we need money, and that's where the CO2 trading mechanisms come in.

Why not just use the existing mechanisms, instead of steeling power? We're not steeling power we're getting countries to outsource global problems to an organization better equipped to deal with them. Without individual countries agreeing to abide by the rules we will be bogged down in a never ending, do nothing bureaucratic nightmare while the planet falls apart.

So our politicians really believe they're doing what's best for the world. They're not telling you the big picture, cos well that's standard political practise.

The big picture is that the CO2 program is not the end, it's just the beginning. They want to centralize populations in cities (I prefer Kevin Rudd's idea of spreading the population wide and thin, connected with hi speed interenet), change development metrics, dismantle the consumer culture, set up new national parks to help environment restoration and create marine sanctuaries.

What about the population problem? Metropolitan people generally don't maintain replacement levels.

Won't these cities be cesspits of crime and disease? No, no we'll try and make them as green and nice as possible. Cycle lanes, vegetable gardens, etc.

-All good ideas and I support them.

But it doesn't change the fact that they're lying, and they're financial benefactors were/are behind globalization... the same globalization that ships Apples from China to Australia, and Apples from Australia to Taiwan.

So there you have it EvlPanda a quick overview of why the Carbon tax.

choco said...

So who really is behind this uprising in Tunisia, Eygpt, Lybia and now Syria?
Have moles been put in place to bring these places into line for the new world order? or is it their way to express they don't want a carbon tax?

There is one significan difference between the "revolution" in Libya and the rest of the Arab world, that is the fact that they were armed and violent.

They are being funded and helped by the US and allies. Remember the British SAS unit that was captured and released early in the piece?

The hotbed home town of the rebels, Darna I think it is called, has been the largest recruitment source above any other throughout the arab nations for freedom fighters in Afghanistan and Iraq. Loosely described as Al Quaeda.

These are the guys that are being funded by the west.

Go figure!

choco: i didn't really answer your question properly before. What's going on in the middle east is an attempt to bring western style democracy there, develop the country, have them adopt the usury system (get in to debt) so the populace consumes western goods (infrastructure, and consumer).

It's more of the earth flattening principle I describe before.
They still don't know much about a carbon tax, carbon tax is for the rich countries.

So yes the middle east wants change, yes the west is driving it to bring them in to the nwo, and no it's not about a carbon tax.

Went to an observatory recently and scientists there reckon forget climate change, its rubbish. We have a far bigger problem. The star Betelgeuse at 600 light years away is about to explode and when it does if it hasn't already we're all f#*ked because all the gamma and X-rays are going to rip off our ozone layer. Doomsday prophesy perhaps but we do seem to be wasting recourses at a huge rate.

We were in the Hunter Valley yesterday to attend a wedding. On our way we stopped in Maitland for lunch. Heading out we passed the railway line and passed a coal train. The train was heading towards Newcastle. It was huge and took a couple of minutes to pass.

So why do we need a carbon dioxide tax in Australia when we are digging up and exporting huge amounts of coal? We also export enormous amounts of liquid petroleum gas. Why will the burning of the stuff be taxed in Australia while its great to export it for burning overseas?

cisco said...
[So what is the expression on this face saying??

This spot's taken .. Now Naff off!!!

(Nice pic)

cisco said...

doggie said...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Well doggie, 911 reads and 84 replies in 4 or 5 days would seem to indicate that the subject is not so ZZZZZZZZZZZZ ish.

So what is the expression on this face saying??

Well you did get 911 reads and 84 replies but this is still zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz boring