Breivik's manifesto.. Not Deleted, Yet..

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barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
24 Jul 2011 11:31am
I imagine there would be a healthy thread going already, if old mate was a Jihadist..

Ohh wait, he is a right wing, nationalist, christian, gun lovin' nutcase, and he doesn't accept evolution.. Would fit right in around here!.. Fail.

/images/misc/forum-image-missing.gif

You can read about his 1500 page manifesto, with links to download it, and a source for the credited youtube hate video as well, over at scienceblogs.

scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/07/a_glimpse_into_the_deranged_mi.php

barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
24 Jul 2011 11:38am
1500 pages of this..

I can't possibly imagine how my state of mind will be during the time of the operation, though. It will be during a steroid cycle and on top of that; during an ephedrine rush, which will increase my aggressiveness, physical performance and mental focus with at least 50-60% but possibly up to 100%. In addition, I will put my iPod on max volume as a tool to suppress fear if needed. I might just put Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell on repeat as it is an incredibly powerful song. The combination of these factors (when added on top of intense training, simulation, superior armour and weaponry) basically turns you into an extremely focused and deadly force, a one-man-army. At the moment, I do not fear death, but I am very concerned about being afraid on the day of the mission. I'm afraid that the potential fear I might experience during the mission will paralyze me or will result in me "crapping my pants" so to speak. Theoretically, this will not happen, as I have grown to be extremely mentally disciplined and I have undergone numerous hours of training and simulations. Nevertheless, it is impossible to properly simulate a martyrdom operation so I am still somewhat concerned for my mental state during that time.

GreenPat
GreenPat
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24 Jul 2011 2:03pm
There has been no thread deletion as such, but there could be...
log man
log man
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24 Jul 2011 3:18pm
GreenPat said...

There has been no thread deletion as such, but there could be...


Domestic terrorism fueled from the nutter right is a real problem.
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
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24 Jul 2011 2:37pm
barn said...

I imagine there would be a healthy thread going already, if old mate was a Jihadist..

Ohh wait, he is a right wing, nationalist, christian, gun lovin' nutcase, and he doesn't accept evolution.. Would fit right in around here!.. Fail.


So far it sounds like it's just one lunatic person.
If it turns out that the guy is a member of some larger movement of lame brained screw ups who want to impose their idea of them running the world according to their philosophies then there will be a justifiable cause for a very long discussion on it.
So far, there is no indication that it is anything more that one or two complete lunatics who hope to get worldwide attention by committing the worst act that they can think of.
He's done it.
Don't fulfil his wish to give him any fame or infamy over it.
He's a total drop kick and loser who deserves to be locked up alone in a very small cold and dark cell for the rest of his hopefully long and miserable life.

The fact that they have called him a christian is irrelevant.
I haven't heard in anything reported that he did it to achieve a religious ideal or outcome, unlike some others that do the same things on a regular basis and shout their religious slogans as they do it.
SomeOtherGuy
SomeOtherGuy
NSW
807 posts
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24 Jul 2011 6:42pm
I can kinda understand where you're coming from barn but I agree with pweedas. I don't condone beating up on muslims just because of some nutbags. Likewise I wouldn't condone beating up on christians because of this nutbag. I can't see that there's anything to be gained in going there.

Also like pweedas, I hope he rots for the rest of his days.

PR... Can't see anything... too many wet jubblies...
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
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24 Jul 2011 5:10pm
Ohh, I'm not beating up on anybody, just noting the general 'foot in mouth' of the collective right wing.. Reading his manifesto, the things he says are all too familiar. It's stuff you hear every day, and although this is hopefully a one off, it can't be denied that there are a lot of people sympathising.

While some of his concerns about the 'Islamization' of the west are valid, it's pretty interesting his conclusion that they all need to be shot..

Here is the direct link to his manifesto, a 4mg download and an amazing insight into the mind of Breivik. If anybody is wondering why this guy did it, it's all there..

www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384

Pitty he had this song on repeat, it's a good song thats now pretty tainted.



And there is a face in the window, behind the jubblies..
log man
log man
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24 Jul 2011 7:36pm
It's just so fricken sad isn't it. But we're humans aren't we. Some of us become broken inside. Some of us rise to the greatest heights and some of us go to the most depraved depths. But we're all on the spectrum of humanity. This man is not some sort of inhuman monster, he's a man with a serious mental illness. He's not "pure evil", he's one of us that's gone wrong.
Just so much terrible damage.
Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
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24 Jul 2011 7:46pm
I agree Logman. Half the problems we face are because we dehumanise those we disagree or don't want to care about. If this bloke had actually thought through his ideas he would have considered what right he had to impose his will on others, through killing them. Clearly he had no right to do so as no one has the right to end someone else's life except when it is a case of self defense.

Trant
Trant
NSW
601 posts
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24 Jul 2011 8:25pm
barn said...
Ohh wait, he is a right wing, nationalist, christian, gun lovin' nutcase, and he doesn't accept evolution.. Would fit right in around here!.. Fail.


Was having a think about this in the car this morning. I thought why do you never hear of Left Wing nutters going on a killing spree? Then it occured to me that several of the worst dictators in history have been left wing extremists (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot)

So why do Right Wing nutters just go on a killing spree on their own, whereas Left Wing nutters start a revolution, overturn the state and then systematically kill everyone?

Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
24 Jul 2011 8:35pm
Trant said...


Was having a think about this in the car this morning. I thought why do you never hear of Left Wing nutters going on a killing spree? Then it occured to me that several of the worst dictators in history have been left wing extremists (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot)

So why do Right Wing nutters just go on a killing spree on their own, whereas Left Wing nutters start a revolution, overturn the state and then systematically kill everyone?




There are not many left wing lone gunmen because a left wing nutter usually finds youngsters to do their dirty work for them. Most left wing terrorist/revolutionary movements require the development of cadres to do the necessary work to bring in the enlightened society.

Who would not want to bring in an better society when young and knowing all the answers?




Cassa
Cassa
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24 Jul 2011 6:52pm
log man said...

It's just so fricken sad isn't it. But we're humans aren't we. Some of us become broken inside. Some of us rise to the greatest heights and some of us go to the most depraved depths. But we're all on the spectrum of humanity. This man is not some sort of inhuman monster, he's a man with a serious mental illness. He's not "pure evil", he's one of us that's gone wrong.
Just so much terrible damage.


+1
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
24 Jul 2011 7:13pm
Trant said...


Was having a think about this in the car this morning. I thought why do you never hear of Left Wing nutters going on a killing spree? Then it occured to me that several of the worst dictators in history have been left wing extremists (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot)

So why do Right Wing nutters just go on a killing spree on their own, whereas Left Wing nutters start a revolution, overturn the state and then systematically kill everyone?




Guess when nationalism, and worship of the state and its leaders is part of an ideology then the citizens that stand in the way are expendable.

The difference between Stalin, Htler et al. is that they had the resources to carry it out on large scale.. Genghis Khan dwarfed these recent dictators for brutality, but didn't have the means.

Humans are perfectly capable of killing in the name of things held important, all you have to do is find out what these things are..

Nationalism is only second to Religion for justifying this sort of stuff..




Hamsta
Hamsta
505 posts
505 posts
24 Jul 2011 10:05pm
My burning questions are
Why the open bottle of mouthwash?
Are several of the ladies leg amputees?

As for the mass murderer, well what can anyone really say................
SomeOtherGuy
SomeOtherGuy
NSW
807 posts
NSW, 807 posts
25 Jul 2011 12:41am
barn said...

And there is a face in the window, behind the jubblies..


What window??? Mouthwash!!??!
busterwa
busterwa
3782 posts
3782 posts
24 Jul 2011 10:47pm
If he wasn't such a coward he would of shot himself.




VERY TRAGIC.
Australia learn t the hard lesson aswell

pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
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25 Jul 2011 12:14pm
Well that pretty much does it for me. If it's on U choob then everything it says must be true.

After all, you don't have to stretch credibility too far to believe that a democratically elected government in a peaceful first world country would stoop to this sort of behaviour as a matter of course.
After all, there would only be a few dozen people 'in the know' so there would be almost no chance of them being found out and then hung drawn and quartered, because Australians are just sooo good at keeping secrets. (not)
felixdcat
felixdcat
WA
3519 posts
WA, 3519 posts
25 Jul 2011 12:41pm
busterwa said...

If he wasn't such a coward he would of shot himself.



VERY TRAGIC.
Australia learn t the hard lesson aswell



I thought shooting your self is the ultimate act of cowardice..... Maybe he had not enough time or was he hoping for the cops to do it? Mind you the most he will get is 21 years in jail!
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
25 Jul 2011 2:49pm
felixdcat said...

busterwa said...

If he wasn't such a coward he would of shot himself.



VERY TRAGIC.
Australia learn t the hard lesson aswell



I thought shooting your self is the ultimate act of cowardice..... Maybe he had not enough time or was he hoping for the cops to do it? Mind you the most he will get is 21 years in jail!


It's pretty clear why he did not shoot himself. He has described his tyrade as 'marketing' for his cause. He surrendered so that he gets his day in court and explains why he done it.

If he shot himself he would have had no chance to promote his cause.
Gunna1
Gunna1
154 posts
154 posts
25 Jul 2011 1:26pm
Maybe we shouldn't give this peanut any air time at all and focus on supporting the victims and maybe the next fruitcake will think twice if he's not going to get his name up in lights. give him a trial without the news coverage going all over the world, (maybe 3 lines on page 35 saying he is going away for ever so the victims families know he has been deaalt with).
doggie
doggie
WA
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25 Jul 2011 1:39pm
(.).)
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
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25 Jul 2011 1:47pm
I agree with loggy.

The grandparents of an ol' friend of mine were there, and sadly didn't make it.
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
25 Jul 2011 1:48pm
Gunna1 said...

Maybe we shouldn't give this peanut any air time at all and focus on supporting the victims and maybe the next fruitcake will think twice if he's not going to get his name up in lights. give him a trial without the news coverage going all over the world, (maybe 3 lines on page 35 saying he is going away for ever so the victims families know he has been deaalt with).


Exactly. So far everything is going just the way he planned.
Probably millions of people have rushed off to read his manifesto and millions more will tune in to hear his warped philosophy when he has his day or weeks in court to further spit his venom.
Most want to know what he thinks out of morbid curiosity and I've no doubt that 99% of people who read his stuff will not be persuaded by his logic, but it's the 1% who he does persuade that are the problem.
It only takes a very small percentage of the population to see this sort of thing as a valid way of achieving change and the whole society becomes unworkable.
felixdcat
felixdcat
WA
3519 posts
WA, 3519 posts
25 Jul 2011 1:56pm
Gunna1 said...

Maybe we shouldn't give this peanut any air time at all and focus on supporting the victims and maybe the next fruitcake will think twice if he's not going to get his name up in lights. give him a trial without the news coverage going all over the world, (maybe 3 lines on page 35 saying he is going away for ever so the victims families know he has been deaalt with).

The max he is going to get (according to their legal system) is 21 years; they should make sure it is 21 years of hell! Just keep him barely alive with the bare minimum of food and water in a dark cell! But I bet it'll be some dogooders to find he has a bad youth, his grand mum abused his pet guinea pig and he was raped by gay army boys when he served etc…[}:)]
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
25 Jul 2011 2:42pm
Thats my point, we all want to ignore Breivik and dismiss him as a lone nutter.. 'Walk away.. Just another Bryant.. move along'..

This is wrong, Breivik planned this, it's political, he is not a 'lone whacko gunman'.. Domestic terrorism should be shown for what it is, angry white males with a political axe to grind, these people are dangerous.. We are rightly worried about the next Osama, we should be equally worried about the next Breivik.. Faaark, half the commentators on this forum fit the mould.. (wtf Cisco, absolute freak)


Waleed Aly from the ABC, points this out better than I can..

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2808618.html



When Jared Lee Loughner walked into a town hall meeting and unceremoniously gunned down a Chief District Court Judge and a Congress Democrat in January this year, the most conspicuously absent word in public response was "terrorism".

Hilary Clinton went close, calling Loughner an "extremist" and drawing a parallel with extremism in the Middle East. But overwhelmingly, Loughner was deemed dismissed as crazy - much like Norway's Anders Behring Breivik who has now admitted to killing 90 people on the weekend.

Already you can see the rhetorical slide. What began as an unambiguous act of terrorism is slowly becoming the work of a "lone gunman". It's not, in the words of a Norwegian police official, "Islamic-terror related", so he must be a "madman". Terrorism is appearing in some reports of this most recent tragedy - certainly more than it did in the Loughner case - but nowhere nearly as frequently as it does when the perpetrators aren't one of "us".

There's a problem here, and it has nothing to do with political correctness. It's not even simply about public language. The problem is that the more we explain away acts of domestic terrorism as isolated cases of madness, the less capable we become of spotting it. Having realised the weekend's attacks in Norway weren't Islamist, we must do better than lazily assuming Breivik is just Norway's answer to Martin Bryant.

Martin Bryant he is not. Bryant is a loner who massacred 35 people apparently as a way of getting attention: to "make everyone remember me". Breivik is a committed political activist. His manifesto (which for the time being is on YouTube), if correctly attributed, makes this abundantly clear. It is deeply implausible that this was anything other than a textbook case of terrorism. It was fear-inducing violence by a non-state actor in the service of a political cause.

Understood this way, we can see that Breivik is far from an isolated case. This is clearest in America, where the phenomenon of "domestic terrorism" has been on the rise for the last three or four years. Here, I'm not talking about "homegrown" Islamist terrorism, which has also increased. I'm talking about people who, crudely speaking, are like Breivik: white, male citizens with some or other political axe to grind in their own nation.

In March this year, police arrested Kevin Harpham, a white supremacist and former soldier, for trying to bomb a Martin Luther King Jr parade in Washington state. He got as far as placing the bomb there. Six months earlier, an environmentalist named James J Lee was killed by police after he burst into the Discovery Channel's headquarters with explosives and a gun demanding it "broadcast to the world [its] commitment to save the planet". In February 2010 Joseph Stack flew a plane into an IRS building, killing himself and an IRS manager. Stack's suicide note raged against a range of things, including the US government's bailout of financial institutions and his ongoing problems with tax payments and debts.

I could go on. And on. These are not odd scattered plots. We're talking about dozens and dozens and dozens of them - most, thankfully, unsuccessful. Today's domestic terrorists are a broad bunch, as the FBI notes: "From hate-filled white supremacists. to highly destructive eco-terrorists. to violence-prone anti-government extremists. to radical separatist groups." And that is to say nothing of anti-abortion violence, which is quite common. These attacks don't get international headlines, or blanket domestic coverage. As a consequence, they don't generate the broad fear that Islamist terrorism does. But when they succeed, and they do, the dead are just as dead.

**cut.. continue reading at link
CMC
CMC
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25 Jul 2011 4:59pm
Barn, I agree mate.

The laughable thing when this hit the news was "oh my god, how could this act of terror happen even after Bin Laden's death?" Ludicrous on how many different levels???

I for one believe that the propoganda against Muslim extremists which the weekends massacre pretty clearly shows is just one kind of extremist we have to fear is very politically driven. Brievik even advised people how to get Muslim youths to over react so that the people would rise against them.

A lot of the reason we are taught to despise Muslims is 1/ Driven by the US relationship with Israel and 2/ It's easier to invade countries and control their oil supplies if the voting public signs you a blank cheque in the name of terrorism. If we fear them all that task is easier again.

Flame on.......



pweedas
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25 Jul 2011 5:51pm
The difference between terrorism and the "insane acts of a lone gunman" is this;
If just one person runs off the rails and goes around shooting people or blowing them up in order to publicise his particular point of view then he is a lone lunatic gunman.
Terrorism is when a whole lot of lone lunatics take up whatever the cause might be and act in a similar way for the same cause.

I know it doesn't feel any different if you are shot by a terrorist fighting for a cause or a lone gunman trying to establish a cause, but the threat to society is far greater from the terrorist organisation than it is from the lone lunatic gunman.

Once a cause is established and a few followers recruited, their morality is normalised by others of the same group rather than society in general.
If others in the group then claim that their justification comes from their leader, or government or worse still, from god then nothing they do is beyond limits because if it is approved by god then what higher authority is there to disapprove. Whatever disapproval they get from greater society is irrelevant because any who disapprove are lost souls anyway.
There is virtually no defence against such people because there is nothing you can do which will act as a deterent.

I can't imagine Breivik thinks he is acting under the authority of some divine edict and he has admitted that his action was wrong but but in his opinion, unavoidable.
So far he is just a lone nutter gunman.
If it turns out that he has an army of like minded followers willing to do the same things then he and they will be called terrorists.

That is why some lunatics are labelled as terrorists and some are not.

Probably what normalised it in his mind and made his actions acceptable to him is the wide coverage of other terrorist acts given prominent news and tv coverage.
Since that sort of thing appears to be increasingly normal these days then he probably thought he should give it a try.

barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
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25 Jul 2011 6:31pm
languages.oup.com/

Terrorism - the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


There is 1500 pages of evidence behind the political motivation for the killings.. While he is no doubt insane, this was no random act, it's Right Wing terrorism. Why not call a spade a spade.
log man
log man
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8289 posts
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26 Jul 2011 12:03am
barn said...

languages.oup.com/

Terrorism - the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


There is 1500 pages of evidence behind the political motivation for the killings.. While he is no doubt insane, this was no random act, it's Right Wing terrorism. Why not call a spade a spade.



right on!
SomeOtherGuy
SomeOtherGuy
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807 posts
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26 Jul 2011 9:02am
petermac33 said...

SomeOtherGuy said...

cisco said...

The massacre was a contrived event done as a precursor to the disarming of Australia.


Congratulations, cisco. You've managed to capture the essential essence of both stupid and offensive all in one short post.


many Australians still do not believe Martin Bryant was capable of killing so many,35 dead with only 21 injured.





Really? All I can say is that many Australians are idiots.
SomeOtherGuy
SomeOtherGuy
NSW
807 posts
NSW, 807 posts
26 Jul 2011 9:05am
felixdcat said...

Gunna1 said...

The max he is going to get (according to their legal system) is 21 years; they should make sure it is 21 years of hell!


According to the ABC news report I saw last night, they can keep him longer if they believe he is a threat to society. I hope the believe he is a threat to society for a loooong time after 21 years.
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