A kitesurfer is almost always downwind therefore windsurfers should give way at all times.

kiteboy dave said...

A kitesurfer is almost always downwind therefore windsurfers should give way at all times.
...

That's just wrong. Nobody is inherently up/downwind of anybody. A kiteboard can easily edge itself into a position of upwind superiority and claim the right of way. You just end up balking the sailboard and causing grief.

That's just as bad as sailboards blasting at speed through the pack with no thought of the other craft they are passing.

Port, starboard, or Up?

Speaking of Pelican Point, I remember kiting there once where I had a windsurfer on my tail, another one coming at me head on, and it wasn't clear who was quite upwind of who. I decided to let the windsurfers work it out and just boosted a couple of mast heights out of the way vertically...

upwind and downwind has nothing to do with it for 2 crafts sailing on opposite tacks - can't believe it's even brought up. surely this was in jest ????

a lawyer at my (yacht) club was saying the ROW rules would be used should a collision get to court, outside of a regatta situation.

Gorgo said...

FlickySpinny said...

busterwa said...


Jibing seems to be another problem where people down wind to not give way.

When Jibing / Gybing / tacking / vulcaning / ponching / flakaing, under any normal circumstances, the vessel performing the manouever is under an obligation to keep clear of EVERYONE no matter what tack or point of sail they are on.

While that is correct in principle, it leads to a situation where tailgating is common.

So let me get this right... (and I've read your post very carefully several times)

The action of keeping clear of other sailors when going into a manouever leads to people "tail gating" you?

Ergo:

Doing manouevers in front of people teaches them not to sail behind you and to keep clear of you. And that is a good thing.

Do you need me to point out how anti-social that is and exactly how it contravenes the RoW rules?

Gorgo said...
It's even wprse when they sit behind and slightly downwind blocking your exit from a gybe.

Learn to tack.

FlickySpinny said...
...
So let me get this right... (and I've read your post very carefully several times)

The action of keeping clear of other sailors when going into a manouever leads to people "tail gating" you?

Ergo:

Doing manouevers in front of people teaches them not to sail behind you and to keep clear of you. And that is a good thing.

Do you need me to point out how anti-social that is and exactly how it contravenes the RoW rules?

...

No. You're being deliberately obtuse to make a political point. You're taking the extreme position and trying to make out that I am too. I never said any of the things you said.

Forcing anybody else on the water into a position is unacceptable no matter what the rules are. Forcing your right of way, pushing people upwind or down wind or whatever, sitting behind people and blocking their exits. All wrong.

Mark _australia said...

kiteboy dave said...

This is where the situation gets tricky

Not tricky at all Dave. Upwind / downwind has no relevance in the pics you posted. Port tack gives way to starboard tack.

i thought each vessel is to turn to port to avoid collision.

saltiest1 said...

i thought each vessel is to turn to port to avoid collision.

Y'see there's the problem right there.

We're supposed to turn right (starboard) to avoid a collision. But as this thread (and many other that have gone before) shows, there's absolutely no guarantee that even if you know the rules, that the other guy will.

And you might be convinced of the rules, and scream them at the top of your lungs, but somehow get them completely backwards.

Cripes, we don't have a big thick rulebook for walking along the footpath do we? But yet even without all sorts of strange nautical terms people seem to be able to avoid bumping into other people quite easily.

So the only rational way to avoid collisions is to... avoid collisions! Use common sense. If you're on a collision course, then make an obvious change of direction so that then you're not on a collision course.
This works just about all the time, as opposed to the 'proper' nautical rules which will work around half the time when you take the inexperience of the other guy into account.

We need a simple slogan that works for kiters, like 'right foot first is right of way' or something.

Perfect. cruising in heelside, left foot forward, quick switch now toeside rightfoot forward and everyone get out of the way!

Im a kiter, not a sailor. I ride my kiteboard, not sail my boat. I can see how the sailing rules would apply to the poleys but thats just another restriction that the place themselves under by choice.

Dear poleys,
I shall lift my kite a little higher if it means you can pass safely but that is all you will ever get. Now go back to your sailing club and tell the commodore i said Hi.
In jest,
B12.

kiteboy dave said...

Mark _australia said...
Not tricky at all Dave. Upwind / downwind has no relevance in the pics you posted. Port tack gives way to starboard tack.

Hmm maybe I'm not as funny as I think I am. Try stepping back and looking at the problem. I mean literally step back a few paces from the monitor and look at my pic.

Point I was taking the long way around to making is that I am from a sailing background, I get it. But talking about port and starboard tack around most kiters is like saying it round wakeboarders or snowboarders. Doesn't mean anything and it's too hard, so not interested.

We need a simple slogan that works for kiters, like 'right foot first is right of way' or something.

I really really hope that is not the case - that kiters don't care cos it is too hard.
It is a pizza P1ss to know that the wind is coming from the left side or right side of your board, regardless of switch stance stuff.

tightlines said...

Right hand forward has right of way.

Right hand heelside has right of way?

About it being too hard: remember that to a non-sailor you have to start at the beginning. What is a tack. What is port & starboard. Why not say right & left? What is upwind / downwind / leeward / etc. (I'm not kidding, to some kiters upwind is getting back further up the beach than where you started). So you teach them all these terms, great. 6 months later, never used, all gone.

kiteboy dave said...

tightlines said...

Right hand forward has right of way.

Right hand heelside has right of way?

About it being too hard: remember that to a non-sailor you have to start at the beginning. What is a tack. What is port & starboard. Why not say right & left? What is upwind / downwind / leeward / etc. (I'm not kidding, to some kiters upwind is getting back further up the beach than where you started). So you teach them all these terms, great. 6 months later, never used, all gone.

Like I said, for beginners forget switch stance, heel/toeside, which hand forward etc etc.
"If the wind is coming from the right hand side of the board then you have right of way."
Anyone who is learning to kite or windsurf or sail who cannot learn THAT should not be going on the water.

What Nebs said too, use common sense when youre out there and take the initiative to avoid a collision if you see one coming rather than relying on others, pick your path early and play nice, I haven't met a person yet that collided with another on purpose out there

Far as I know, The largest vessel has right of way,
Just get a bigger board,

It's easy. Turn right and/or f%$# off.