From my experience, it's cheaper to travel in Western Europe than rural NSW. Food, accommodation and attractions are all cheaper.
This country is crazy!
If you don't need to be located in the city move to the country plenty of quality cheap homes
I work on houses everyday and all I see are young families with massive houses.....nice cars.....boat...caravan....jetski...etc
What happened to buying one thing,paying it off then move to the next thing?
Banks own the majority of houses not the people who live there.
Select to expand quotefingerbone said..
I work on houses everyday and all I see are young families with massive houses.....nice cars.....boat...caravan....jetski...etc
What happened to buying one thing,paying it off then move to the next thing?
Banks own the majority of houses not the people who live there.
Exactly... I was talking to a mate the other day and he was talking about spending 5K on a 'toy'. He has a nice house, a nice car, his kids have motorbikes and never, ever go without. I was wondering how he does it. I know his missus doesnt work (or only works casually), his income is exactly the same as mine and he doesn't have any investments.
I own my own house. I own both my cars. And I own my boat........ I can afford to put petrol in my car and go for a holiday if I want. But I was thinking 'wow, 5 grand is a bit extravagent'. My friend on the other hand is often heard saying "I cant this time. I've only got half a tank of fuel and that has to last me a week". Still hasn't clued onto it yet.
To be honest. If it wasnt for my wife, I would probably be exactly the same as him.
Select to expand quoteharry potter said..
More than anything else the prices can be attributed to a deep seeded Australian desire to own your own home.
more people in the market
more willing to sacrifice luxuries to own their own home means prices increase
its not unaffordable because people are paying these prices and theses are averages.
I contest that... more than anything it can be attributed to lack lending standards and the artificial inflation by the banks.
You see in reality the banks are the biggest landlords in the land, and if property goes up so does their balance sheet which allows them to be even MORE leveraged.
So the lend to anyone to buy property, hardly anyone to develop... and when it starts going downhill they reduce the rate a little... or encourage money laundering from other countries.
OH and lets not forget the government... they LOVE high prices bcos they charge us losers stamp duty... oh and it also lifts GDP and increases economic activity... so in reality everyone benefits except the poor farker who has to pay it back, not a big deal while the music's playing but if it stops somebody's gona cry.
I've been bearish on property, just bcos I didn't see how it could sustain such levels... after tax most people are taking home ~$50k/y how you gona pay off $800,000 and the damn utility bills... oh and go for a kite/surf?
Select to expand quotepweedas said..
The standard remedy is for five years of high inflation coupled with high interest rates.
It solves everything.
High interest rates stop house prices going up because few can afford to pay the interest on the loans.
High inflation means high wage rises so at the end, an 800k house is again affordable.
Wage inflation begets even more inflation; the only way out I see is high interest rates and business sector subsidies... never gona happen.
Inflation is bad for everyone... the target should be pegged to population growth.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Why are you guys quoting the 'average' or median prices instead of what your house is worth when quoting the cost for rates and water. It makes no sense.
Rates are not set on the average.
Rates are set on a percentage of the Valuer General's valuation of your property to which water, sewerage, garbage collection and fire levies are added.
So therefore a comparison of median/average house values against rates charged is valid.
Our regional council wants to charge higher rates for properties that are rented out than those that are owner occupied.
The Laborites will love that one.
Select to expand quotecisco said..FormulaNova said..
Why are you guys quoting the 'average' or median prices instead of what your house is worth when quoting the cost for rates and water. It makes no sense.
Rates are not set on the average.
Rates are set on a percentage of the Valuer General's valuation of your property to which water, sewerage, garbage collection and fire levies are added.
So therefore a comparison of median/average house values against rates charged is valid.
No, you quote median or average values and then quote how much you personally pay as rates. This makes no sense. You could have a mansion that it worth 4 times the average or a shack that is worth a quarter of the average. In both cases the rates are going to be significantly different because the values are different.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Our regional council wants to charge higher rates for properties that are rented out than those that are owner occupied.
The Laborites will love that one.
I don't know why you are assuming that people that care about an equitable society are 'against the landlord'. Why would 'Labor' want to implement this sort of policy or do you see them as the big bad wolf, against all that is good?
Someone has to supply the houses that people live in. In this case, the council are being greedy. Why do they think they deserve more money because the properties are rented? It sounds like an excuse for them to make a grab for cash.
Of course, the reality is, that if they do this, the landlords would pass on the rate increase to their tenants, so it achieves nothing for anybody other than the council. It would be funny if they offered to reduce the rates to owner occupied as well, which would show you if they have a misguided sense of fairness or are really just after more money.
In any case council rates should be calculated on the basis of what services the council provides so the land is usable and thus has some value. Just because the land goes up in value does not mean the service provided is more valuable too.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..
In any case council rates should be calculated on the basis of what services the council provides so the land is usable and thus has some value. Just because the land goes up in value does not mean the service provided is more valuable too.
I guess it becomes complex though. How do you work out what services are used by what residence?
I live in a house, and I am sure that rates for a house are more than for a unit, even if you compare places of equivalent value. How is it that a unit gets a discount compared to a house? If the same number of people live in each, then you would expect the resources used to be the same.
Select to expand quoteHarrow said..
From my experience, it's cheaper to travel in Western Europe than rural NSW. Food, accommodation and attractions are all cheaper.
This country is crazy!
Best country in the world mate. Western europe is great I agree and cheaper but I know where Id rather live.
W
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Mobydisc said..
In any case council rates should be calculated on the basis of what services the council provides so the land is usable and thus has some value. Just because the land goes up in value does not mean the service provided is more valuable too.
I guess it becomes complex though. How do you work out what services are used by what residence?
I live in a house, and I am sure that rates for a house are more than for a unit, even if you compare places of equivalent value. How is it that a unit gets a discount compared to a house? If the same number of people live in each, then you would expect the resources used to be the same.
I guess it would be calculated based on how much it costs to maintain the local roads in an area, how much it costs to provide services like garbage collection, libraries, swimming pools etc in an area and so forth. Add a reasonable cost administration. Divide that by the number of households and that would be the bill. If a bill could be itemised so the rate payer sees what their money goes towards I am sure there would be less grumbling and complaints, especially when the cost of rates go up without any explanation at all.
This could apply to all government taxes. If we could see where out money goes then perhaps we would be more accepting of it and if it goes to something we don't like, for example buying the new jet fighters that I think are a complete waste of money, we could nominate that we don't want our tax money going there. In this way certain government programs which the tax payers don't like, would be starved of money and would die off while those that the tax payers do like, for example child care or representing Australians overseas who are in trouble, would get more money. This is all about individuals knowing what they need rather than a politician or bureaucrat knowing what the individual needs.
A town called Warren NW of Dubbo, low crime rate 'as in none' and friendly people who say Gidday.
well 40% of homes there are rented!
do you think the landlords built those houses?
If they did't invest then there be no houses to live in!
Would i buy up cheap houses in small outback towns that return a nice rent ? YES...
is it right ? NO
those landlords suck money out of that town and others to fund a lifestyle that is never really deserved...
your tax money as in neg gearing, rent assistance and etc. is funding some of it!
You should be angry as your house costs more, your interest repayments are higher and YOU are taxed more.
If the bandwagon slows down and you can afford a ticket, jump on I say.
Right?, probably not.
Your right? Bloody oath! You'll be forced to pay the taxes anyway.
Until restrictions are placed on negative gearing and foreign investment, property prices will continue to nowhere but up! In other words, get ready to take it in the proverbial, young people! Crazy, greedy world we have.
Select to expand quoteBoxer101 said..
Until restrictions are placed on negative gearing and foreign investment, property prices will continue to nowhere but up! In other words, get ready to take it in the proverbial, young people! Crazy, greedy world we have.
Based on what Alan Kohler and Flysurfer have said, its unlikely negative gearing will ever be repealed. A four billion dollar investment gives a two hundred billion dollar return. Governments benefit from this return in many ways. Banks benefit from this return. Government represents banks. So why would it be repealed?
In Sydney at least it seems like foreign investment in residential property, primarily from China is really driving the market up. They say its a vendor's dream to see two or three black passenger vans with darkly tinted windows turn up to their property auction. Its also a nightmare for any local bidders. Personally I am against restriction on free trade so generally believe its for the best if a market can be as free as possible. Its not like foreigners can take the house they bought in Vaucluse or Chatswood back to Shanghai or wherever.
Moby, I think I read somewhere yesterday that foreign investment, i.e. non residents I think, is restricted to only buying new properties, and not established properties. So, you should be seeing this crowd at new places and not existing.
None the less, it should push up the prices of the new places which will push up the prices of existing places as well.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..
Tonight on the ABC news Alan Khohler reported that it costs the tax payer around $4 billion a year to pay for negative gearing. However it has a payoff of around $200 billion of increased property prices according to Credit Swiss. Alan said that wasn't a bad return on investment.
Yeah Australia is an expensive place to live. Its not just property prices. The main reason its expensive is the utility prices. When we first moved to Sydney our water bill was about $110 a quarter. Seven years later its $170 a quarter. Is our water suddenly sparkling and the sewerage sweet smelling? I checked out some old electricity bills from 10 years ago. Electricity was 12 cents a kilowatt hour. Today they are over 25 cents a kilowatt hour. Has coal suddenly become more expensive? When we first moved to Sydney our council rates were $800 a year. Now they are over $1200 a year. Does the council suddenly provide better service?
Its pretty clear the government and their companies are trying to wring out every single dollar out of the citizen/consumer, they can get. Its a real rip off when the same authority, the government, is the same authority who decides whether price rises are warranted.
If we keep going down this track of taxation by another name it will get to the point that the people will demand a levelling of charges otherwise there will be demands for reform and competition. On the other hand its pretty clear improved technology will allow people to side step and avoid the rip offs that make Australia one of the most expensive places to live in the world. Australians are dying due to the rip offs happening here.
Yes but increased property prices benefits nothing other than the property market itself. It becomes a self-fulfilling, self driving out of control monster.
All it does is make a select few richer, like banks and property speculators whilst making it harder and harder for people on average incomes to live in anything other than the outer suburbs or tiny apartments or - rent.
this happened not far where i live. crazy stuff
www.heraldsun.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes
that developer will bring cheap labor from his country to build apartments there. then people from his country will come to buy them.
even if the interest rates will go up its not gonna affect them since they don't borrow in australia.
also recently i had a chat with young enthusiastic an IT indian bloke. been in oz for 6 years he bought 3 properties already.
his plan is buying new property every 1-2 years using equity from the previous ones he bought for borrowing and paying interest only.
apparently there are heaps investors like him out there. its a game with minimum risks for them since they can easy walk away from their mortgages if something goes wrong.
some might say no, they can't do it in australia like they did in america.
well, i guess all they have to do is just buy one way ticket.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Moby, I think I read somewhere yesterday that foreign investment, i.e. non residents I think, is restricted to only buying new properties, and not established properties. So, you should be seeing this crowd at new places and not existing.
None the less, it should push up the prices of the new places which will push up the prices of existing places as well.
From what I've read, this regulation is ignored or complied with at little cost. There have been very few cases where a non resident got into trouble because they bought an existing property.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..FormulaNova said..
Moby, I think I read somewhere yesterday that foreign investment, i.e. non residents I think, is restricted to only buying new properties, and not established properties. So, you should be seeing this crowd at new places and not existing.
None the less, it should push up the prices of the new places which will push up the prices of existing places as well.
From what I've read, this regulation is ignored or complied with at little cost. There have been very few cases where a non resident got into trouble because they bought an existing property.
Great, so another 'regulation' is toothless and no more than window dressing. I guess we are 'open for business'. It's just a sale though. No actual investment.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
I hate to agree with PMac, but it has to stop somewhere. Who can afford these types of prices?
The people that are invested in property. (capital of all sorts actually).
Means less can afford to buy and have to rent, means more renters, higher rents, higher price for houses, more renters, higher rents...Select to expand quote
I think everyone thinks that it will just keep going, but I don't understand how that can happen unless everyone keeps ignoring reality.
It's returning to reality. The reality that we've had for tens of thousands of years where a few people own a lot.
The last half a century or so has been a blip.
Capital appreciates in value more than wages increase in value. That's it.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Mobydisc said..FormulaNova said..
Moby, I think I read somewhere yesterday that foreign investment, i.e. non residents I think, is restricted to only buying new properties, and not established properties. So, you should be seeing this crowd at new places and not existing.
None the less, it should push up the prices of the new places which will push up the prices of existing places as well.
From what I've read, this regulation is ignored or complied with at little cost. There have been very few cases where a non resident got into trouble because they bought an existing property.
Great, so another 'regulation' is toothless and no more than window dressing. I guess we are 'open for business'. It's just a sale though. No actual investment.
Any stats you see on how many foreign investors there are are made up because there's no box when you buy a house that asks for your nationality. So how can anybody know or enforce the rules?
Also it was Labor that relaxed the rules about foreign ownership.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..FormulaNova said..Mobydisc said..FormulaNova said..
Moby, I think I read somewhere yesterday that foreign investment, i.e. non residents I think, is restricted to only buying new properties, and not established properties. So, you should be seeing this crowd at new places and not existing.
None the less, it should push up the prices of the new places which will push up the prices of existing places as well.
From what I've read, this regulation is ignored or complied with at little cost. There have been very few cases where a non resident got into trouble because they bought an existing property.
Great, so another 'regulation' is toothless and no more than window dressing. I guess we are 'open for business'. It's just a sale though. No actual investment.
Any stats you see on how many foreign investors there are are made up because there's no box when you buy a house that asks for your nationality. So how can anybody know or enforce the rules?
Also it was Labor that relaxed the rules about foreign ownership.
Those busteds! I may like a lot of their policies, but this is not one of them. 
I was reading an article (on SMH?) the other day where they talked about the property boom and Chinese investment and were arguing that it is misleading that Chinese investors are bumping up the prices because 'they can't buy not new property'. Well I guess that's what should happen in theory.
Another one of these things, where the regulation is not policed because no one cares.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..FormulaNova said..
I hate to agree with PMac, but it has to stop somewhere. Who can afford these types of prices?
The people that are invested in property. (capital of all sorts actually).
Means less can afford to buy and have to rent, means more renters, higher rents, higher price for houses, more renters, higher rents...
I think everyone thinks that it will just keep going, but I don't understand how that can happen unless everyone keeps ignoring reality.
It's returning to reality. The reality that we've had for tens of thousands of years where a few people own a lot.
The last half a century or so has been a blip.
Capital appreciates in value more than wages increase in value. That's it.
You know, what I find sad is that when I left school in 89, houses were still relatively cheap, and people bought them to live in. The few seemed to buy more than one, but as banks weren't giving money away, people weren't buying them willy-nilly. I feel so sorry for the people now that feel that they are missing out if they don't buy one, and the fact that they are too damn expensive. People I went to school with were probably lucky that they 'probably' bought a home before all this silliness began.
This is just crazy.
