theDoctor said...
maybe for the sake of safety...?

I for one would hope if I was in a brake down lane, that fellow comuters would slow to see if I required assistance

maybe... but the problem is they slow down beyond reasonable... that's really what i was talking about...

actually we all own the roads, thanks to our (supposed) taxes, while I may agree with you on principal, even being held up in by slow drivers in the fast lane sure as hell beats walking... both for effort and speed

It's not just being held up in the fast lane... it's that the entire freway crawls starting 25 ks out of the city... all lanes... each day... from 6:15 AM... YES 6:15 AM!!! So if you are in the car, it will take you about the same amount of time to get to work as taking the public transport. I ride motorcycle, so it's a fair bit quicker. But in general, i'm really talking about efficiency... focus, concentrate, drive. Learn from Germans.

you'd kill someone, possibly their family and change irrecovably the course of their history and your and your families own.... to what, save a few minutes...?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see i was speaking metaphorically.. figure of speach to emphasize strong feeling about the topic...

I never get into a road rage.....

dude, this is road rage...

No this is NOT a road rage... we are not on the road, but instead sitting indoors in front of a computer... posting a slightly provocative topic to trigger a discussion about driving in order to understand general view on the subject. I don't remember when was the last time I got agro at someone on the road.

and I'm very tolerant of others whilst driving, and always keep my road manners, but with so many idiot drivers roaming our country, you can't just sit back (hence my post here)...

yes you can, its called patience

I see it more as an ignorance to sit back and do nothing. I'm a type of person who speaks up... tries to improve things... and gets things done... not that there is much it can be done in this case, but at least gives an oppurtunity to voice optinion and have analytical discussion...

maybe because I have high speed driver training, you are not as competent as I believe you should be...? Maybe you should get off my road because I am more competent than you are...?

Hey, if my neglegent or selfish driving is impacting you directly, then i should get off the road... or at least let you go through... It's not about competence as much as general comon sense and courtesy on the road. But then if you don't have common sense and courtesy, then you probably lack competence in some way...

If you can't drive - then get the hell off the road and catch public transport or ride a bicycle...

From your post i believe you to be the type of person who will next week post about the bloody cyclists taking up all the road and causing you delays....

No, i'm in favour of cyclists. I have been cycling to work in recent times when i lived 8 ks out of town... but due to the circumstances i now live too far to cycle to work, and the government has deteriorated standard of living in big cities due to excessive migration and inadequate infrastructure to support it.

i think you, from your post are simply arrogant and impatient

I'm definitelly impatient. Especially coz i like to get things done and fast. I don't think i'm arrogant... but you are entitled to your opinion. I guess you are just basing your view on my sb post only...I never said i'm better driver than everyone else... i'm just saying people who don't know how to follow basic common sense and road rules shoud get off the road

then dude, there is your answer, sell your car, take public transport and shut the faark up and chill out

no, i'm already utilising the most efficient way of transport. But why stop there... why not improve things further? Things can be always made batter.

serriously... I feel sorry for people like you... your grand parents great grandparents or if you come from a fuuck happy bogan stock, great great grandparents would have appreciated the expediency of motor transport without being aware of the ecological damage such a luxury affords...
here you are as wise as we are in the 21st century and you are whining like a little biitch because someone is hogging your lane, fully aware that the actions of you driving today, a so called "fossil feulled' motor vehicle, will be directly responsible for the extinction of you immediate desendants tommorrow...
get over yourself

i'm not whining because someone is hogging my lane... i'm whining because everyone is hogging every lane. Get it.?
In terms of environment related issues - i think these topics have been discussed in other threads... this thread is meant to be about driving. But fair enough. Yeah, i'm all for preserving the planet - i already do what i can in that dapartment so you dont need to lecture me there. However, i live too far from the work to be able to walk/cycle... i'm not rich enough to be able to live in or close enough to the city... i therefore use motorcycle which consumes less fuel than cars and has less environmental impact - and i ride it efficiently on top of that. When they commercialise non fuel based vehicles i'll be happy to switch. In the mid time, this topic is presented in the scope of current world scenario...


p.s. btw i didn't red thumb you

poor relative said...
I suggest when you drive, relax, put some funky tunes on and don't let it get you down. There is no rush.

I agree reli...
There are two problems here - it's hard to get the music going with the motorbike helmet on and all
Second problem is, let's say the forecast is looking excellent for the arvo, and you are trying to get home ASAP so you can get on the water... only to be stuck in traffic because people simply don't drive properly...

What is it with you Perth drivers??
You all say Perth drivers are the worst in Oz.

Tell you what, move to Sydney, drive to work Monday to Friday and then try to go shopping or to the beach etc on a Saturday or Sunday. Doesnt matter what time of the day, you WILL discover Australia's WORST drivers!!!!!!!!

I think some of us have a different idea of what constitutes "WORST" driving. For some of us it's simply having cars in front stopping us from driving where we want as fast as we want.


To me bad drivers:
- run red lights
- change lanes excessively
- accelerate too fast (motor bikes are worst)
- pass the car in front just because it's there
- rush up the inside lane then push in when they get to the parked car or roadworks sign (or generally drive oblivious of conditions ahead until it's too late)
- hog the right lane by driving just above the speed limit
- rush up to the back of the pack in front.
- overtake drivers as they are about to pass a cyclist
- block intersections, keep clear sections and level crossings
- cut in after overtaking with minimal clearance
- run fog lights AND head lights at the same time
- harass and bully everybody else on the road.
- believe that driving at the limit of their superior skills and handling abilities constitutes good driving.

superlizard said...I see people on the intersections and traffic lights who have reflexes and reaction time of a drunk snail, therefore minimising the traffic flow and creating congestion because it takes them 30 seconds to get going after the light turns green, or the car infront starts moving...

I have great reactions and I often accelerate hard twenty seconds or so before the car in front. I don't think this is dangerous but it is proving expensive.

If the coast is truly clear then there's nothing wrong with giving it a little stick from time to time.

If you are with traffic then you need to drive in a manner consistent with the general flow and in a way that you can reasonably adapt to anything that happens.

If you are accelerating way faster than the rest of the traffic then you become an out of control variable. People are making judgements and reacting to a perceived traffic situation and along comes somebody accelerating at twice the rate of the rest of the traffic.

Bikes are always complaining, "The car pulled out on me without warning." I'll bet a significant number of the car drivers would say "The bike appeared out of nowhere." They're both right. The car did the wrong thing but the bike created the situation by moving faster than everybody else and not being prepared to stop.

Gorgo, I agree with most of your points but here's a few more

Gorgo said...


I think the real problem is that there is a fundamental attitude problem with drivers.

Many drivers think in terms of getting from A to B as quickly as possible. They have an expectation of a right to use the road in a way that gets them around quickly.

I heard the best example of this at morning tea break once. A colleague complaining about being held up on the way to work by people in the right hand lane.

"How fast were they going ?" I asked

"80 kph"

"Isn't that the speed limit on that road? you'd have to speed to get here any quicker"

"It's my right to speed" -

And that answer was in all seriousness!

Which raises another point.
Why is there an expectation that you should squeeze into the left hand lane for a tailgater while traveling at the speed limit on a double lane road when both lanes are reasonably full?

nick0 said...

anny one who uses the line ..... speed cameras are just to raise $$$$ is a tool
speed cameras are only used to prevent speeding. (or punish them)if no on speed then they would be around .. .. slowing down when thiers a ton of glare or the road is wet ..isnt that the right thing to do ... drive to the conditions. if you speed u run the risk of being caught or crashing..eh

I don't think they are there just to raise money, but I do have to wonder about the logic that is used sometimes.

People sitting close together, nose to tail, on the F3 freeway appears to be "safe", as they are under the speed limit (at least as they go past the cameras). This must be the case, otherwise there would be a policeman fining the people that are not keeping a safe distance.

Double demerits were introduced to reduce the road death toll. Has it? Well, we will then introduce it more often. Has it really reduced the road toll?

Lane discipline seems to be ignored as there is no cheap way to police it. Lazy people sitting in the right hand lane when they could easily merge left just shows that they are lazy drivers or have a poor ability to judge speed and distance.

I feel that these self appointed speed police that will sit in the right hand lane because they think they are doing the maximum speed limit are not really trying to make it safer - they are just lazy.

For what its worth I don't generally speed, but I also make an effort not to sit in the right hand lane.

Ian K said...



Which raises another point.
Why is there an expectation that you should squeeze into the left hand lane for a tailgater while traveling at the speed limit on a double lane road when both lanes are reasonably full?

This is where the whole problem starts,both lanes should never be reasonably full. You overtake and then move over to the left, how can this small amount of courtesy be so difficult for some people

Gorgo said...

When conditions are that simple you're absolutely correct.
....

The other guy accelerates up to the car in front and continues pushing. Meanwhile, I'm stuck in the slow lane with no real chance to get back into the right lane.

That situation happens all the time. The guy in the right lane is the road hog and indulging in all sorts of anti-social and illegal behaviour.

I agree totally, and in that scenario its not fun. It encourages people to bunch even closer too as they are worried about losing their 'spot'.

I find that if you head north from Sydney on the F3 the same thing happens, and it drives me nuts (as in annoying me, not as in psychotic). The people in the right will vary from 80kms to 120kms/h, but never more than 5m apart, while the people in the middle cruise along at a reasonably steady speed.

If they are within 10kms of the speed limit I will generally pull in there and relax instead of competing with the nutbags in the right hand lane.

In a complete contrast to normal thinking I think some roads would do better as a single lane instead of 2 or three, as long as people were forced to sit within a certain percentage of the same speed and a reasonable distance apart.

Ian K said...






I agree FormulaNova, single lanes, take away any thoughts of lane changing altogether.

They had one in Canberra - the GDE - A single lane each way for a couple of kilometers. Concrete barrier separating oncoming traffic the whole way, no prospect of overtaking at all . You could rightfully sit on the 80kph limit and nobody could pass.
Everybody except me hated it, I think they've recently widened it.

A pity concrete has such a carbon footprint, otherwise those barriers could solve most of the traffic problems.

Hey Ian, how well did it work in practice?

I think I would rather have a single lane that bypassed traffic lights and had a speed limit of 60ks, as long as it meant your average speed was the same or faster.

I also think that freeways have too many on ramps and other crazy ideas...

At peak hr it did slow down as cars got too close together, but they moved along at a steady pace, no traffic lights and only one on ramp to contend with. It was unusual to build a freeway in two stages . They had issues with green protests, turning the first sod and funding I suppose. One lane each way to start with but a freeway in every other respect.

Possibly a necessity at present but is building all freeways and bridges to cope a traffic jam of 30 ton semis the way to go?
A couple of lightly engineered single lane freeways scattered about in the urban system, limited to be used by 800kg * 1.5 metre wide passenger vehicles, would soon get us into smaller vehicles. Save fossil fuel and despite a bit of duplication maybe engineering costs in the long term.

Gorgo said...
Many drivers think in terms of getting from A to B as quickly as possible. They have an expectation of a right to use the road in a way that gets them around quickly. That leads to all the bad stuff.

I think the responsibility of the driver is to get from A to B as safely and smoothly as possible. Speed and travel time is completely irrelevant. This means avoiding bad behaviours, not doing stupid stuff, not taking the bait when dick heads do stupid things, not stressing out. Arriving places relaxed and comfortable.

that's true. But i think it's not unreasonable to have expectation for traffic to move at least close to the speed limit (practicing precaution in risky conditions is all fine). Problem is when you are faced with having to go 50-60 kms under the speed limit all the time even during times when the traffic should flow smoothly, then it tells me something is not right there...

I don't care if I'm a few minutes late anymore. Everyone's in such a rush to get somewhere to probably do nothing important anyway. It's rare you're truly late for a plane.

60Km trip to work.
@average speed of 100Km/h = 36 minutes
@average speed of 90Km/h = 40 minutes

Who gives a **** about 4 minutes?