Gday MSD,
Conditions are a big factor in learning to gybe. If it's rough (which it sounds like it is), then you'll find it difficult regardless of foil. There are benefits in slow lifty foils with low stall speed, but also glidey foils that make the action smoother. I've found the slower foils have a tendancy to get affected by chop more than the glidey foils. I'd suggest find somewhere with flatter water if you can. It'll make a big difference. If you're rolling too much, maybe check foot position? Are you putting too much weight on the inside of the board? Hard to know without seeing....
Also, what is your toeside riding like? Have you got it down pat? If you haven't, then it's something worth getting proficient with as it will help entry and exits. You don't want to be changing foot position mid gybe.
Re DW boards, it's hard to tell. Really depends on your level of ability and determination. On the surface I'd suggest what you're trying will be pretty challenging. I'd also add that the conditions will play a part in your ability to manage it. I'm big on having a bit too much litreage rather than going a bit too small.
If you're being rolled off your FG board with chop, then I'd be careful getting a narrow DW board. The extra width usually gives more stability. If you're being pitched off a wide board, going narrower would be something I'd hold off on.
Hope this helps. Keep on with the foil journey. It's great fun.

martyj4 that's really helpful, thanks coach.

> I've found the slower foils have a tendancy to get affected by
> chop more than the glidey foils.

Yeah I think I have noticed this too. When going through bumps the smaller foil cuts through them more smoothly, where the larger foil definitely rises up more.

> If you're rolling too much, maybe check foot position? Are you putting
> too much weight on the inside of the board?

I think the issue is that I have been using the hand wing to help stabilize myself when doing turns and when going for a gybe I can't rely on it for balance anymore.

> Also, what is your toeside riding like?

I think the technical term is "total rubbish". I typically do an off-foil gybe, switch feet, and then get back up again. Should I learn to take off and ride toe-side to get a feel for it? Going back to square one is going to suck but I guess there is no way around it. Is that the best path -- learn to take off toeside and ride that way like I did for heelside? I was thinking to learn toe side once i can get around on foil, but maybe best to isolate the skills...

I guess this gets to how I'm spending my time on the water. Since I got up and can stay upwind I have mostly just been cruising back and forth enjoying the ride, but not investing too much in new skills beyond S-turns and carving.

> Hope this helps.

It does, many thanks.

Also Dspace, I appreciate the feedback, especially:

> Smaller or a downwind specific design isn't going to just
> magically have you start making your jibes.

Sigh. Yeah. I know from other sports I do that it's so tempting to fixate on the equipment when the problem isn't the gear -- it's me.

Hey Dan,
I learned 4 years ago and it was a long slow process. As a 35+ year enthusiastic windsurfer, I had LOTS of ground in habits that I needed to break to foil successfully.
This is just me. I have taught others and they've smashed it way faster than me with different styles.

Conquering toeside riding was the key for me. Not saying it will be for everyone but many who I've taught have found similar. I tried getting up in toeside stance from taxi to foil but was way too much of an unco to do that - and still cant. For me I worked really hard in choppy conditions and struggled heaps by trying to swap feet while foiling to go from heelside stance to toeside. Breakthrough came when I had my first sesh on flat water.
My technique was narrow your stance so your feet are close together. Use a long fuse (I used one of the Windsurfing fuses - 90cm long). Use a big tail to give the whole setup pitch stability. Then get at moderate speed flying dead across with wind, slightly umbrella the wing to take the sideways pull out of the wing and make it a little more vertical, back foot to where the front foot is and front foot immediately to where the back was. These foot movements should be small and fast as your feet are narrow stance. This means that the board will be less inclined to pitch forwards and back as you swap feet and change the weight going through the board. Then be ready to feel unco-ordinated. You'll want to sheet in and maybe head off wind a bit to get power back in the wing. widen your stance again if you feel it's better.
The tip I got given to improve toeside is do it lots.
The gybe for me after getting toeside riding sorted out took me no time to get right. Everything felt natural going in toeside and exiting heelside. Still does.
But that's me and I'm weird. Maybe you are too .
Don't get dejected or put off if progress isn't as fast as you think it should be. Mate, it's a hard road for the majority of foilers and there's no easy tricks with this stuff.
Perfect gear, perfect conditions and perfect teaching and you might be up foiling after 4 sessions. Any of those things compromised and it could take 10x longer to master gybes and toeside. It's to be expected.
We're with ya.

MediumSizedDan said..
I think you are right to suggest isolating the foot switch and toeside riding from the gybe. Every time I have tried to go toeside it has felt terribly awkward and ended with a splash. Do you see much value in doing touch-down foot switches or should i just go for it? The touch down almost makes it more complicated I think, I'll often lose a lot of speed that way so it's functionally pretty close to just starting toeside, which feels quite awkward at this point. I'll probably just go for it with the technique you described, I'm definitely comfortable inching my feet around already.

If you can get yourself to switch your feet to toeside while flying, that's the way to go (some people have a hard time even trying, myself included).

Once toeside, a common problem is finding power again. Make sure to extend your front arm forward. If you keep it over your head (a "natural" thing to do when switching hands in heel-side jibes), you'll be unbalanced, have no power, and sooner or later fall off to the back. Also check the position of your back hand - if it is too low, no power to keep speed. One tip I recently heard from someone who taught many wingers to jibe is to pull the back elbow up and back when toeside. That keeps more power in the wing, and aligns your body correctly. Here's a picture:

If you're not used to twisting your upper body a lot (few are), then the front edge of the wing will often be too far to the wind, and the back edge too far downwind, for any power.
Two things that help with twisting are (1) bending your knees, and (2) rotating your feet so they point a bit forward, not just to the side. You can see both in the picture I posted. I think the feed could point even a bit more forward.

I remember when I was learning my jibes with the 2000 NP front wing.. it felt good and safe but I was lacking turn exit speed. As soon as I bolted on the 1700 (haha.. compare to my 1095 HA today) which has a slimmer profile I instantly had more speed, which helped a ton.

MediumSizedDan said..
1. Would you suggest learning to gybe on the 1475 or 1225?

2. My question is jumping to a 95L-ish DW board for light days that's 19" or 20" wide -- is this going to be too narrow for me (my FG board is 28" wide)? Should I shoot for something more like 23-24"?

3. Is it possible that I have too much float and it's causing it to be corky and I might've been better at only +10 to my weight?

1. By experimenting I guess you'll decide that you prefer your smaller MA1225. Big fat foils just want to stop. They might be good for first flight at 5 kts water speed, but they typically slow down the learner's progression for every thing else. Big fat foils wear you out too. More fatigue equates to more crashing. Wide span foils are bad for learning too, since they are too roll stiff, so you cannot easily keep the foil under your body mass in turns. Roll stability is personal pref, but you're better off being too loose than stiff in roll response.

2. The longer narrower boards do save a lot of energy to get up on foil. Sideways stability depends a lot on the width of your foils and length of your mast. They also get 5x more stable if you learn to use the sail to make just 1 kt of forward speed through the water. If you go too wide in the board, then the DW style probably wont work too well.

3. Yeah, bigger aint always more stable for a board in the water. In swell+chop when going super slow thru the water, I've found that some full floater boards are much more difficult to balance on than partial sinkers. And when you're up on foil, then a bigger board with more swing weight and windage is more difficult for everything. They're good for nothing once up.

I recently had a session where the wind wasn't too gusty and the water was far less choppy than usual. What a difference those variables made. Thanks to the advice here, when trying to jybe I was able to get around on my strong side (turn roughly 130 degrees) about 50% of the time. On my weak side maybe 10% of the time. When I get around I face the problem described by boardsurfr:

Once toeside, a common problem is finding power again. Make sure to extend your front arm forward. If you keep it over your head (a "natural" thing to do when switching hands in heel-side jibes), you'll be unbalanced, have no power, and sooner or later fall off to the back.

Yes this is exactly what is happening to me: I get around, swap hands, and then run out of speed and drop off foil. At least at that point I'm pointed in the right direction? Next time I will try bringing the wing down sooner -- maybe once I cross the downwind line. And I have had others tell me it can be helpful to feather a little power through the turn. I'm currently totally depowering the wing overhead, consciously not using it for balance, and carving into it as suggested by Emmett above.

But wow -- gybing was so much less like a rodeo and more like carving a turn with the gusts and chop down to a minimum.