Intermediate wing foiler here who is foil brained, but I continue to find foiling a real challenge, even 3 years in on inland lakes/reservoirs with crappy wind and a short season (just getting my jibes down, suck at pumping and foot switches).
I'm 59yo and 65kg, riding a 72L Omen Flux V1, I'm currently on Uni Progressions (mostly P170, but also have P140 and P200). I chose these foils because they have a reputation for being all around user friendly, with good low end (for my crappy wind). They seem to deliver that. Good...
I'm wondering what all the foil developments in the past few years might get me if I switched to new foils...most of the focus/marketing... and discussion on forums is about chasing high end performance, and yes, I'll take performance, like more glide and better efficiency and upwind ability, lower stall speed, etc. as long as that equates to making this sport easier for me. I'm just starting to learn to ride swell, not cranking turns in big surf, nor can I downwind yet of course...I just retired and will be spending most of this season in the Gorge, so I see this as the year to progress or move on...
What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
There is only one variable: "TIME ON FOIL"
I'd be stoked with your kit, sounds good to me. However without being too cheeky I would breakdown what you are having trouble with and access in this order, is it my technique or is it my gear?
Of course, if you have money to spend, just go for it, nothing beats the new stuff, we wouldn't have an industry without people buying!
your gear seems fine. as prev responder said: practice. for example, i've been winging for years now and still struggle with foot switches. why? cuz i almost never do them. once i'm on my preferred side, i just don't switch, so i don't practice them, so i don't get better. but in my local conditions, i've been forced to deal with shore break, rough seas, breaking waves, gusty winds, etc., and all this has forced me to become better. don't be discouraged, just keep going out and you'll naturally get better.
Select to expand quoteUisceBeatha said..
What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
There is only one variable: "TIME ON FOIL"
Agree 100% that that is the main variable, and I'll be getting a lot more this season.
But I also know my first foil and wing both sucked and made learning more difficult, so its not like gear doesn't make a difference. Meanwhile, lots of hype at least about foils getting better and better, but not that much of the discussion is in terms of average joe intermediate foiling challenges that I see...just looking for more of that
I have bought a lot of gear thinking it would help my progression. Maybe in some ways it did. But pretty minor percentages. I found I had to plan on flailing and failing to progress. I also have light and puffy winds where I sail and it seems like a hard won accomplishment to get on foil and cruise. Just mowing the lawn far enough to let my heart rate come back down seems necessary. When I scheduled ten foot swap attempts per session is when it came together. The wipeouts were budgeted and acceptable. More than ten and you're just beating a dead horse. Your senses, thoughts, and body come together and are more effective than cool new stuff.
That being said cool new stuff is being delivered on Monday. 
Select to expand quotekook123 said..UisceBeatha said..
What do you all see on the foil front as being worth an update (or at least a demo) for this scenario? What has made the most difference in your progression from struggling intermediate to...uh...struggling less?
There is only one variable: "TIME ON FOIL"
Agree 100% that that is the main variable, and I'll be getting a lot more this season.
But I also know my first foil and wing both sucked and made learning more difficult, so its not like gear doesn't make a difference. Meanwhile, lots of hype at least about foils getting better and better, but not that much of the discussion is in terms of average joe intermediate foiling challenges that I see...just looking for more of that
True, but I didn't say gear doesn't make a difference. 1) if you can't get on foil - then yes, change up the gear. 2) if you are seeking glide and your current foil is low or medium aspect then yes, change it up. 3) if you can't tack or gybe, have you a **** bagged out wing - yes maybe change it up. However put experienced foilers on old kit, they can still do it all. The limitation is in your ability not in the gear. I say this having started 6 years ago on the most terrible kit going!
Generally the hype in foils getting better and better is in the "feels", they "feel" more stable, faster, nicer feedback in turns, breach better, etc etc. The hype around the P170 when it came out was off the charts! and to this day its still a great foil - for all the "feels" :-) But the thing is you can't enjoy the "feels" till you are experienced enough to ride the foil like its an extension of your body. I surfed for 20 years, the first couple of year foiling felt awkward but man, now it feels just like riding a surfboard/snowboard, when you get to that point the hype is about the feeling.
As others have said, it's likely gear is not going to make a significant difference.
I've taught lots of people. So many foilers when they struggle look for a change in gear to make their progress better. It's rarely the problem unless they're on really old outdated gear or stuff that's way too advanced. Without knowning much about Uni gear, it sounds like others say that setup isn't bad.
That said, if you are struggling with foot switches, why is that? Do you get bucked off? Is your foot placement inconsistent? If you place your feet pretty well but are being thrown, then put on a bigger front foil, tail or a longer fuse to get more stability into the setup. It has made a huge difference to me. What are the local water conditions like? Is it choppy with confused swell? If so, that just escalates the difficulty.
I've been at this for 8 years now and still don't have tacks or pumping down pat. Still can't ride big swell consistently. But I love this sport and won't be giving up. Sometimes there are things you just need to grind away at. Time on water is the biggest winner here.
Hang in there.
For sure, time on water, as many have replied. But I sense you have an itch to get some new gear. And nothing wrong with that, I love buying new gear. For me, gear is part of fun.
I am for sure not objective, and personally I have not tried anything else than F4 the last years. But I have lots of wingfoil buddies that have changed to the F4 Orca foils, and base my input on the feedback from them.
Around where I live, Bergen, Norway, there are 5-6 guys using Orca 685 or 800 for pure "moving the lawn" wingfoiling. Myself, I use it for upwind/downwind wing, and now parawing.
There is a lot of talk about the performance of the Orcas on forums, for downwind. And very little talk about how it works for winging.
All the feedback I have from my buddies is that it is super easy to use for winging. And I feel the same. With the 800 or 685 I can tack in almost any situation. It is so forgiving, mixed with low end and glide.
A buddy of mine that was on a large Starboard foil tried my Julitta 85 with the Orca 685. He was so sceptical going out. Went out for 20 minutes, came back, and the board had not touched the water. Super suprised.
800 is for sure the biggest needed for winging at your weight. And you don't really need any other size either.
Pair it with a 170 S tail for good stability.
I am 87kg, and my buddies are between 70 and 90kg.
based on this comment "just getting my jibes down, suck at pumping and foot switches"
We need to ignore the hype, and keep it real..
F4 Orcas.I say no. While the wing is wide and you would think this makes it extra stable in foot switches, the narrow tips offer less stability at lower speeds doing foot switches. Also less stability climbing back on the board, which you're likely doing a lot. It's also likely why it rolls so well into turns.
Code S series wings. More stable foot switches. Board stability strong from the foil. Can be ordered with long fuse to make progress easy. This would be an upgrade. Great wings to learn pumping, although not the same glide as the Orca. All still better than the Progression.
Please note, when you get into these foils that carry a lot of speed into jibes, people still not masters of the jibe, can struggle with the windwing skill needed. They sail into the windwing and body slam it. On the plus side, you will always sail away in the opposite direction with a lot speed, if you don't screw up the windwing handling.
