Hey guys I'm after a bit of advice about the move to more intermediate gear. I'm 85kgs, been foiling for the last few months & can foil pretty well in a straight line but learning how to gybe & trying to learn to ride switchfoot.
I'm running a 135L Axis froth (yes very big & overkill but was cheap) & a SES 1040 which is pretty similar to a BSC1060 (details from the website - SES 1040 - Best suited to riders 80kg (175lbs) and over, or any rider in areas where light winds or small surf prevail. (Wingspan 1040mm, Actual Surface Area 1957sqcm, volume 3020cm3, Mast 750mm)
I foil with a 4.8 PPC wing & get up on the foil pretty easily if the winds there or with a lot of wing only pumping if it's flukey. My board is too big to pump properly. I can't be bothered using a big wing as I find them too cumbersome to pump.
The problem I have is the mast for the SES package is 750mm & I'm finding I am broaching a hell of a lot over chop. I want to get a 900mm to give me a bit more tolerance over waves.
Once I started looking I began to wonder what would be the best progression in my foil setup & would I be better at this stage to sell the complete setup & get a smaller wing that would be better for gybing etc. I'm hearing good things about the HPS 980 but would this be too much of a jump? Do guys stay in the BSC range?
I am also very keen on getting a smaller board pretty soon - probably a 85-90L Froth or Hover.
I'm keen to hear your thoughts & what gear you guys progressed to as there seems to be a lack of info for the intermediate step.
cheers
I went from a 1060 BSC and 105ltr board but then went to a 90ltr board with a 1050HPS as my light wind foil as I progressed. I found the 890BSC was a great mod-high wind foil the really helped my jybes a lot but I went to a 999ART as I progressed. I've always used an 82cm mast and it's worked great.
DC
Hi, here my advices, based on three years of experience and thousands euros spent on trying to get the magic equipment...
First, the board, at you riding level (but I don't know your water sports background...) , I think that switch to a smaller and light board is definitely a good idea as long as you stay with a volume similiar to your weight + 5/10 liters. You'll notice immediately a better global feeling and a better control ot the system.
About the board, if you are planning to use axis and especially the new advance fuselage, mind to get a board fully compatible with that... (foil boxes long and way forward installed on the board...)
Second, the foil set, mast etcc... A 75 cm mast is still OK for wing foiling, to control the height of your flight, only hours and hours of practice are needed, a longer mast (consider the average is 82/85 cm..) and a smaller foilset, helps but always the rider makes the difference. You could get a 100 cm mast, a different foil set (as I did....) but breaching control (as long as you use low ar easy foils) is just a matter of experience.
My advice is at the moment to try learning to fly always at max 20/30cm above the water, and passing the chops carefully, staying low on your legs, controlling the height using more pressure on your front foot.
Go to the 980 hps with a 500 back stab and a 82 mast, would be a big step (but as you get used to it would be super fast and smooth...) at this moment, maybe better get a bsc such as the 970 with a 460 back stab, easyer and more forgiving at your level.
I'm about the same level, and just starting to pull off some gybes, on my BSC970, which is still my one and only beginner foil wing.
My only upgrade to my beginner kit was to go from a 75cm to 90cm mast, and it made a huge difference to reduce the number of falls from breaches. What often isn't taken into account is chop at you local spot. On flat water a 75 may be fine, but just isn't big enough for some spots where you may regularly contend with wakes from large vessels for example.
Also keep in mind that the BSC is a very front foot oriented foil, with very powerful lift, which makes it difficult to control in bigger wind and bigger swell.
For winging I reckon the BSC range is best suited to flat water and lighter wind where the extra lift is an asset. Like you I need to find a good intermediate upgrade, and will most likely move to a HPS soon.
I'm 75kg and have winged 15 times(counting), proned 10+ times and kitefoiled 5 maybe 6 times.
I spent the first 11 wing sessions on 930/400p/short fuse/82cm/105l. With nothing else to compare too, I think this is an excellent beginner setup.
12th wing session tried 740bsc/400p/short fuse/82cm/105l. Had a few unexpected breeches and felt a little out of control. The last few have been on the advanced crazy short fuse. I find it easier, like more intuitive, more control. There was no adjustment required it just instantly felt better. I had more control over mast height, and first session foot changes on foil went from around 35% to 100%. I have fallen on the odd change since, but still think completion rate is well over 90%. My gybe success rate seems the same around 50% due to my poor wing handling. Think my switch toe side and normal toe side is better on shorter fuse and that is key to foot changes on foil.
enjoying the slightly smaller 740 and am going to continue using it for wing, prone and kite on the shorter fuse. I have lost a lot of pump and glide(very noticeably prone) and 2 or 3 knots of low end(wing) compared to 930. Have not kited 740 wing. yet. Have not tried the 930 with shorter fuse either.
I am another totally confused beginner!! Lol I also sold my 6m wing, it was too big for me to pump efficiently and only gave me a knot or 2 of low end over 4.5m. Found the cadence/recovery of pump on smaller hand wing is excellent.
Select to expand quoteDcharlton said..
I went from a 1060 BSC and 105ltr board but then went to a 90ltr board with a 1050HPS as my light wind foil as I progressed. I found the 890BSC was a great mod-high wind foil the really helped my jybes a lot but I went to a 999ART as I progressed. I've always used an 82cm mast and it's worked great.
DC
Thanks. The BSC 890 is another option however I'm not sure if I'd outgrow it too fast? ALso it is on the black fuselage so I reasoned if I have to change fuses then just go for HPS
Select to expand quoteGiovanniITA said..
Hi, here my advices, based on three years of experience and thousands euros spent on trying to get the magic equipment...
First, the board, at you riding level (but I don't know your water sports background...) , I think that switch to a smaller and light board is definitely a good idea as long as you stay with a volume similiar to your weight + 5/10 liters. You'll notice immediately a better global feeling and a better control ot the system.
About the board, if you are planning to use axis and especially the new advance fuselage, mind to get a board fully compatible with that... (foil boxes long and way forward installed on the board...)
Second, the foil set, mast etcc... A 75 cm mast is still OK for wing foiling, to control the height of your flight, only hours and hours of practice are needed, a longer mast (consider the average is 82/85 cm..) and a smaller foilset, helps but always the rider makes the difference. You could get a 100 cm mast, a different foil set (as I did....) but breaching control (as long as you use low ar easy foils) is just a matter of experience.
My advice is at the moment to try learning to fly always at max 20/30cm above the water, and passing the chops carefully, staying low on your legs, controlling the height using more pressure on your front foot.
Go to the 980 hps with a 500 back stab and a 82 mast, would be a big step (but as you get used to it would be super fast and smooth...) at this moment, maybe better get a bsc such as the 970 with a 460 back stab, easyer and more forgiving at your level.
Cheers. Great info.The BSC 970 looks good & I can use it with my fuse. i'm a bit of a tightarse (wrong sport for that I know) but want to minimise the number of upgrades. I have learnt that the path to wingfoiling nirvana is suffering so am prepared to struggle with a more advanced setup if it will end up being the right one. In saying that I have been talking to a mate who is pretty good at foiling that went to the ART series but went back to the 970 as he has more fun on it.
Select to expand quoteBotanyCruzer said..
I'm about the same level, and just starting to pull off some gybes, on my BSC970, which is still my one and only beginner foil wing.
My only upgrade to my beginner kit was to go from a 75cm to 90cm mast, and it made a huge difference to reduce the number of falls from breaches. What often isn't taken into account is chop at you local spot. On flat water a 75 may be fine, but just isn't big enough for some spots where you may regularly contend with wakes from large vessels for example.
Also keep in mind that the BSC is a very front foot oriented foil, with very powerful lift, which makes it difficult to control in bigger wind and bigger swell.
For winging I reckon the BSC range is best suited to flat water and lighter wind where the extra lift is an asset. Like you I need to find a good intermediate upgrade, and will most likely move to a HPS soon.
Yep I think I'll def get the 900 mast for exactly the reasons you said. I think because I only really like going out when it's windy that the foil is too lifty for me esp when I put the front foot down and start howling like a madman.
I'm hoping the drop in boardsize & foil will help my gybes. At the moment I'm running out of speed/ end up going straight/ cut in tight & go high then stall. I haven't found that magic radius & speed yet but I'm sure it will come in the next little while.
Select to expand quotesimon78 said..
I'm 75kg and have winged 15 times(counting), proned 10+ times and kitefoiled 5 maybe 6 times.
I spent the first 11 wing sessions on 930/400p/short fuse/82cm/105l. With nothing else to compare too, I think this is an excellent beginner setup.
12th wing session tried 740bsc/400p/short fuse/82cm/105l. Had a few unexpected breeches and felt a little out of control. The last few have been on the advanced crazy short fuse. I find it easier, like more intuitive, more control. There was no adjustment required it just instantly felt better. I had more control over mast height, and first session foot changes on foil went from around 35% to 100%. I have fallen on the odd change since, but still think completion rate is well over 90%. My gybe success rate seems the same around 50% due to my poor wing handling. Think my switch toe side and normal toe side is better on shorter fuse and that is key to foot changes on foil.
enjoying the slightly smaller 740 and am going to continue using it for wing, prone and kite on the shorter fuse. I have lost a lot of pump and glide(very noticeably prone) and 2 or 3 knots of low end(wing) compared to 930. Have not kited 740 wing. yet. Have not tried the 930 with shorter fuse either.
I am another totally confused beginner!! Lol I also sold my 6m wing, it was too big for me to pump efficiently and only gave me a knot or 2 of low end over 4.5m. Found the cadence/recovery of pump on smaller hand wing is excellent.
Very interesting about the more natural feeling of the shorter fuse. Good stuff. I'm a constant pumper with the 4.8. Those PPcs are so efficient for their size. I cringe whenever I read advice for a beginner to get a 8m wing. I'll try & wrangle a go on some other guys foils & see how I go.
microsurfer - great to hear that you are enjoying your foiling, I feel like you are answering your own questions and seeking confirmation for making decisions as most of us do
You will probably find that a smaller board will not get so hooked up in the chop and a smaller foil will still get you up on the lighter smaller board, so an alternative to changing all your gear could be get a smaller board, see how you go, then add a smaller foil to your quiver and see how that feels, that said the mast is the cheapest change, about 100gbp should get you an aluminium 85cms mast so you could start with that and see how you go - there are lots of options in this game and they all seem to focus on our wallets - haha
Select to expand quotesultanofwing said..microsurfer - great to hear that you are enjoying your foiling, I feel like you are answering your own questions and seeking confirmation for making decisions as most of us do You will probably find that a smaller board will not get so hooked up in the chop and a smaller foil will still get you up on the lighter smaller board, so an alternative to changing all your gear could be get a smaller board, see how you go, then add a smaller foil to your quiver and see how that feels, that said the mast is the cheapest change, about 100gbp should get you an aluminium 85cms mast so you could start with that and see how you go - there are lots of options in this game and they all seem to focus on our wallets - haha
Wise words my friend. I always seem to suffer from paralysis by analysis but the path seems a but more apparent now. 1. Mast 2. smaller board. 3. Sell a kidney 4. Shiny new carbon stuff.
'paralysis by analysis' - no but you are right to think about it and get interaction. Any chance to try other people's gear, I know many of us don't like sharing because of the cost if things go wrong. I'm in a similar situation to you, my mast is 60cms and I have to ride with the foil skimming under the surface, and my board is too small for my skill level and my wings are all baggy and worn out, but I still have so much to learn and it's still fun - looking forward to a longer mast too!
