I am going to give wing foiling another shot. Last fall I bought a Naish Hover DW board (7'2"x24" and 125L), a Code 1540S with the 188AR tail and the long fuse. My plan was to buy a smaller stab as I hopefully get better, and then the 1130S as my "small" front foil.
I have friends who are smaller in size and weight than me, who wing on F-One foils, mainly the Sk8 and Eagle lines. They have been asking why I don't give the F-One Seven Seas 1500 a shot and then add the 1100. I have hesitated on F-One somewhat because I was considering buying the Code 1725S for really light days. If I take the 1725S out of the equation, how do the Seven Seas in 1100 and 1500 compare to the Code 1130S and 1540S? Lift, glide, speed and so on.
My main objective for winging is to get jibes down, learn to ride some waves/swells, and eventually upwind/downwind winging
Me: 6'4" 230lbs 57 years
Wings I use currently are a 7.7 Ozone Lite Force. A Duotone 6.5 Slick and Duotone Units in 5.5 and 4.5.
F-One have just changed their mast to wing attachment and upgraded the SK8's from V2 to V3 so expect to see some bargains floating around on the older system and wings. re the Codes the 1130's is the biggest I've ridden and for my 86kg (190lb) that was heaps of foil even on super light days 6m DT is my biggest wing . I've only ridden the smaller V2 SK8's on the F-0ne and they have a pretty weak bottom end, especially compared to the Code Series, which supposedly is now fixed on V3's . Their old mast still had some flex but haven't tried the new ones but the new Code "PLUS" Mast is the bomb and definitely get that if you intend to use the 1130s , 1300s , 1540s or 1725s you'll need it. Nothing worse than mast flex, especially whilst learning.
That's already one hell of a foil setup (modern design and easy) let alone for learning on.
Ignore the mate's for now and just put the time in on your existing gear which is more than good enough to achieve the goals and then some that you have set out.
Put the time in whenever it is 15-20knots for now working on technique and you'll soon be amazed just how small a foil you can get going while pumping the wing/board which then makes the rest of the time on foil more fun.
It's always tempting to buy more and more gear but I believe it's really only with substantial time on existing gear that the need (or in some cases not needing) a different size/model becomes a more obvious decision.
TL;DR - drc13 nailed it.
In more detail: it is not just about the foil, it is about the whole system. You are on one of the best systems (Code) for big guys because it is very stiff. At 210lb geared up, I can't recommend the previous gen Fone gear due to the lack of stiffness. Not an issue for lighter riders, so ignore the mates. Can't comment on the new gen Fone stuff.
With respect to the foils you asked about, the 7seas is an older gen foil with a lower aspect ratio and thicker foil sections than the Code S. In my experience, if you are starting from complete never-foiled-before scratch, these older, thicker and lower aspect foils like the 7seas are more forgiving. This benefit lasts maybe about 10 sessions max, and then all the advantages of the Code S foil take over and it will almost certainly be the better foil to progress on. Considering the system stiffness differences, the crossover is probably at more like 7 or 8 sessions tops. So, like drc13 said, you have great gear so just stick with it.
If you cannot foil at all at present, try to split the learning task. Handle the wing on land. If you can, borrow or buy a cheap used offroad skateboard. For foiling, spend a few hours towing behind a boat. It may seem expensive if you have to rent, but learning to fly the foil without having to deal with the wing shortens the learning curve tremendously and helps you dial in your mast placement.
Don't worry about a bigger foil than the 1540 right now. Skill will bring your low end down from where it is now more than any gear. For gear,a narrower board will likely make a bigger difference to your low end than any foil or wing. You board dims sound great for a 1st board, but a more advanced board will unlock a a bigger performance envelope once you are ready to deal with the drawbacks.
I've tried the Seven seas 1100 & own the Code 1130s. I think they are very similar & both very forgiving, great glide, maneuverability & excellent for learning gybes etc. They tend to keep you up out of the water when gybing which helps. The seven seas 1100 is a newer generation 8 aspect & a beautiful foil to ride. The skates & eagles are a different breed & you'll struggle at this stage. I'm 86kgs & can't stop riding my 1130 because it's so easy & fun even though I should go back to my 980 . I wouldn't change systems if you're already on code especially for a big guy.
I'd actually give the new F one system a year to see if there are any faults with the new system before buying.
When you say you want to give foiling another shot, it doesn't sound like it is a problem with the foil. Foiling is incredibly frustrating to learn epecially if older so you do have to stick with it. Some learn fast (bastards) & others, like myself, take a little longer to get it dialed. Whatever foil you get, keep on with it.
Time on foil / in the water in good conditions are more valuable and necessary than changing gear most of the time. Instead of spending money on other toys before having learned how to ride the (very good) gear you have, spend it on a foil specific holiday where you can progress immensely in a few consecutive days. Flat, calm waters and solid 16+ knots minimum.
If you do anything buy a narrower board. Get 1-1 coaching on your gybes, I teach to help my mates school out. The foil you've got is fine, I ride code's, focus on riding the foil through the turn, look where you want to go and dont reach for the handle when you flip the wing, it'll come nearer to your hand. A couple of 1-1 coaching sessions will make loads of difference.
Select to expand quotestrekke said..
Time on foil / in the water in good conditions are more valuable and necessary than changing gear most of the time. Instead of spending money on other toys before having learned how to ride the (very good) gear you have, spend it on a foil specific holiday where you can progress immensely in a few consecutive days. Flat, calm waters and solid 16+ knots minimum.
One of my biggest barriers is time on the water. We don't get consistent winds, and I work 55-60 hours a week. Evenings on the water are very rare. Weekends are great, but often times we don't get the wind. I'm super happy with the Code 1540 so far. I'm just the type of person who's looking at my next purchase, and began wondering about F-One.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..
I've tried the Seven seas 1100 & own the Code 1130s. I think they are very similar & both very forgiving, great glide, maneuverability & excellent for learning gybes etc. They tend to keep you up out of the water when gybing which helps. The seven seas 1100 is a newer generation 8 aspect & a beautiful foil to ride. The skates & eagles are a different breed & you'll struggle at this stage. I'm 86kgs & can't stop riding my 1130 because it's so easy & fun even though I should go back to my 980 . I wouldn't change systems if you're already on code especially for a big guy.
I'd actually give the new F one system a year to see if there are any faults with the new system before buying.
When you say you want to give foiling another shot, it doesn't sound like it is a problem with the foil. Foiling is incredibly frustrating to learn epecially if older so you do have to stick with it. Some learn fast (bastards) & others, like myself, take a little longer to get it dialed. Whatever foil you get, keep on with it.
Thanks! I had good experiences on the Code last fall. Only got 6 sessions on it in October and then wasn't able to get out the rest of the year. I windsurf foiled for a couple of years, then had a minor setback after an incident with a dump truck. Major rebuild of my rotator cuff set me back almost 2 seasons. I have winged in the past, but got frustrated with jibes. I'd go out on the Wingfoil and get 4 miles in over two hours, then grab my wind foil gear and get 20 miles in because I could jibe. I really want to nail my wing foil jibes this year, so I'm going practice as much as I can. Still going to windfoil to keep my sanity. Haha.
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..strekke said..
Time on foil / in the water in good conditions are more valuable and necessary than changing gear most of the time. Instead of spending money on other toys before having learned how to ride the (very good) gear you have, spend it on a foil specific holiday where you can progress immensely in a few consecutive days. Flat, calm waters and solid 16+ knots minimum.
One of my biggest barriers is time on the water. We don't get consistent winds, and I work 55-60 hours a week. Evenings on the water are very rare. Weekends are great, but often times we don't get the wind. I'm super happy with the Code 1540 so far. I'm just the type of person who's looking at my next purchase, and began wondering about F-One.
In your case, I would rather save up and buy a foil drive. Most valuable commodity is your time. Code foils excellent for your weight. Fone isn't going to change your wind conditions.
Select to expand quotedrc13 said..
That's already one hell of a foil setup (modern design and easy) let alone for learning on.
Ignore the mate's for now and just put the time in on your existing gear which is more than good enough to achieve the goals and then some that you have set out.
Put the time in whenever it is 15-20knots for now working on technique and you'll soon be amazed just how small a foil you can get going while pumping the wing/board which then makes the rest of the time on foil more fun.
It's always tempting to buy more and more gear but I believe it's really only with substantial time on existing gear that the need (or in some cases not needing) a different size/model becomes a more obvious decision.
Thanks! I'll stick with what I have and try to keep the blinders on, so to speak.
Do you think there's much to gain by getting a smaller stab when I start to hit my jibes? I don't want crazy loose, but maybe a bit more speed.
Select to expand quoteZeroVix said..excav8ter said..strekke said..
Time on foil / in the water in good conditions are more valuable and necessary than changing gear most of the time. Instead of spending money on other toys before having learned how to ride the (very good) gear you have, spend it on a foil specific holiday where you can progress immensely in a few consecutive days. Flat, calm waters and solid 16+ knots minimum.
One of my biggest barriers is time on the water. We don't get consistent winds, and I work 55-60 hours a week. Evenings on the water are very rare. Weekends are great, but often times we don't get the wind. I'm super happy with the Code 1540 so far. I'm just the type of person who's looking at my next purchase, and began wondering about F-One.
In your case, I would rather save up and buy a foil drive. Most valuable commodity is your time. Code foils excellent for your weight. Fone isn't going to change your wind conditions.
I've actually been thinking about a foil drive. Might borrow one from MACkite this spring to try out.
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..
Thanks! I'll stick with what I have and try to keep the blinders on, so to speak.
Do you think there's much to gain by getting a smaller stab when I start to hit my jibes? I don't want crazy loose, but maybe a bit more speed.
No worries and seriously no need to keep the blinders on you have one of the better setups available on the market you should be stoked each time you bolt it on :)
Hmm I've never ridden a stab as big as the 188AR (I'm on a shimmed 142AR) but yes I'd imagine it's pretty slow. A smaller stab will certainly speed your foil up, make it "glide" more but obviously at a fair cost to stability.
If you feel your current 188AR is too slow maybe try putting a 0.5 or even 1 degree shim on it first this will speed things up a bit and cost essentially nothing, if you prefer that feel then you can look more into adding a smaller stab to the quiver.
Coming back to gybes though, again I think it's just time on water and knowing you're going to spend a lot of time "in the water" creating new swear words along the way but it will eventually click and become second nature.
Thinking back to when I learnt try to time your gybes for when you feel a gust or constantly strong enough wind (they are harder to complete in a lull) also if at all possible perform your gybe with the assistance of a bump or wave. This will give you some extra initial time to fudge around getting the technique right while staying on foil. If you're able to hold a consistent turn the majority of the gybe is really in the wing handling so practicing on the beach or backyard will also go a long way.
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..Microsurfer said..
I've tried the Seven seas 1100 & own the Code 1130s. I think they are very similar & both very forgiving, great glide, maneuverability & excellent for learning gybes etc. They tend to keep you up out of the water when gybing which helps. The seven seas 1100 is a newer generation 8 aspect & a beautiful foil to ride. The skates & eagles are a different breed & you'll struggle at this stage. I'm 86kgs & can't stop riding my 1130 because it's so easy & fun even though I should go back to my 980 . I wouldn't change systems if you're already on code especially for a big guy.
I'd actually give the new F one system a year to see if there are any faults with the new system before buying.
When you say you want to give foiling another shot, it doesn't sound like it is a problem with the foil. Foiling is incredibly frustrating to learn epecially if older so you do have to stick with it. Some learn fast (bastards) & others, like myself, take a little longer to get it dialed. Whatever foil you get, keep on with it.
Thanks! I had good experiences on the Code last fall. Only got 6 sessions on it in October and then wasn't able to get out the rest of the year. I windsurf foiled for a couple of years, then had a minor setback after an incident with a dump truck. Major rebuild of my rotator cuff set me back almost 2 seasons. I have winged in the past, but got frustrated with jibes. I'd go out on the Wingfoil and get 4 miles in over two hours, then grab my wind foil gear and get 20 miles in because I could jibe. I really want to nail my wing foil jibes this year, so I'm going practice as much as I can. Still going to windfoil to keep my sanity. Haha.
Persist. I was a windsurf foil zealot, but after 30 sessions my wingfoil gybes were better than my windsurf foil ones had ever been (or will ever be, haha). As I'm sure you've heard before, it's all about letting the foil fly and do its thing.
Number 1.
Working 55-60 hr a week is definetly way to much and keeping you away fron making good progress in foiling
Number 2.
As already said you are already on very good gear. It's about to milk out what your gear is able to do.
Number 3.
If you really want to make progress in winging you'd be good to focus on winging. Doesn't matter the conditions go winging. Whenever you go back to windfoil you get back to your comfort zone. Progress happens only when you leave your confort zone.
Number 4
Have fun on the water. Fun is key to success. Appriciate the conditions you have and learn to deal with what they offer
Select to expand quoteThomasGo said..
Number 1.
Working 55-60 hr a week is definetly way to much and keeping you away fron making good progress in foiling
Number 2.
As already said you are already on very good gear. It's about to milk out what your gear is able to do.
Number 3.
If you really want to make progress in winging you'd be good to focus on winging. Doesn't matter the conditions go winging. Whenever you go back to windfoil you get back to your comfort zone. Progress happens only when you leave your confort zone.
Number 4
Have fun on the water. Fun is key to success. Appriciate the conditions you have and learn to deal with what they offer
Definitely agree on #3 here. Too many people not going out because "conditions are ****" so they sit on the beach watching and laughing at those that do go out and struggle (initially). As time passes those "always out" get better and better just from having more time in the water in all wind and sea states. Now 2 seasons later the same people are still sitting on the beach because "conditions are ****", they are still stuck at the late beginner stage, while the others are now flagging out connecting small ground swell waves in 10-12 knots because they put in the time and now know how to get going in the slightest puff and once up don't come off foil anymore. Needless to say when the wind kicks in, and everyone is riding because conditions are good, those that went out in **** conditions consistently are flying circles around the other guys and ripping in the waves. Point being: all time in the water is time well spent, regardless of the conditions - you have to put in the time and effort to progress. And once you progress consistently, the amount of days with "**** conditions" diminishes as you develop the skills to get the best out of every type of condition. If there's a puff to get going and an ankle biter wave, you're golden. So less office time and more water time!
