I had my first go on a 77L board (I'm 6'5" (1.98M) and about 210 (95kgs) pounds in a wetsuit) yesterday in gusty/holey winds. 1st session started well until I fell in the swell line and struggled to restart. My wing has a big gap between the middle handles and it was infuriating trying to balance in the steep swell, clearing the wing, quickly reaching for the back handle, and often missing it as I'd lose balance and the board would shoot away. The water is cold here, so faffing around this way really depletes energy. I eventually figured out that I could use the Y handle with my front hand (another useful point for having the Y), set the wing tip on the water briefly, quickly grab the rear handle, lift the wing, and I'd be stable enough to get up again. This gave me a much higher success rate. I consider myself to be pretty athletic and this was SUPER tricky. In flat water it's no problem. I see people knee starting knees pointed forward to nose, but this doesn't work for me as it creates too much lateral instability in big swell. I kneel perpendicular to the midline, knees wide crouching low before clearing the wing. Loved the feel of a 5' board once up for surfing swell, but restarting is a royal pain. I tried a water start as you do windsurfing, but there was no way I was getting up, especially strapless. It had me second guessing the benefits of a small board in these conditions over a floatier board that has only a small-ish penalty in performance once surfing the foil.

Any good tips, Sea Breeze Hive-mind?

I have yet to go negative volume (mostly because my local is shallow). From what I've been reading it seems like there may be a general recommendation in-line with Foilthegreat's sentiment. Either cut the volume in half/kgs or match volume to kgs. 2/3rds or 3/4 liter/kgs just seems too tippy in chop.

My wing board is right about my weight and I notice a huge difference in stability when I go to sub 1550cm foils, so keep foil volume in mind as well.

If forecast holds, I'll have a high tide session coming up for me later this week and I'm going to give the 1/2 ratio prone board a go.

Read this thread, this method by cnski and RobM works much easier than any other i have tried:

www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37033.msg426520.html#msg426520

By cnski and RobM
"""1) I put the wing up on the board holding onto the front handle I will be using while riding (not LE handle).
2) I then climb up onto the board on my stomach in prone surf paddle position still holding the handle on top the board with the wing over the top of me (it helps that I am on the Duo Unit with dihedral so the upper half of the wing isn't resting directly on me. The lower half is flat on the water much like in my picture I posted above).
3) I then simultaneously push down on the board with my front hand (still holding the wing handle on the nose of the board) and my back hand (which is free and close to the rail about mid board or maybe a little more towards the tail) and quickly pop up onto my knees keeping my head and shoulders low. As soon as I am on my knees I quickly raise the wing and grab the back handle (everything soon stabilizes).
4) Now I am in classic knee start position with wing powered up overhead. It's all normal from there and doable!!!

This method is so quick and easy!! I too cannot mount a sinker board onto my knees with the wing floating beside me. Tried and failed many many times. A sink start seems too hard, slow and obviously need deeper water. I ride strapless so a waterstart is pretty much out of the question, and I'm almost positive I could never pull off Alan Cadiz's sit start. Very cool RobM that we are doing the same thing. It seems so intuitive. Should we name it? Quick start? Wingover start? The Stinkbug start? :-) """"

Ah cool method above will try it.
My take from listening to those well ahead of the game. As said above Better having two boards, near body weight and /or + 10 or so. Then another smaller prone board. Otherwise you end up with a board that does both poorly.

the rationale I presume is we all are trying to be on the smallest volume (dimensions) board as possible. This is especially true for us prone surfers (and I suppose kite foilers) who get on these bigger boards and they feel like lumps of lard. Sup foilers probably don't notice this as much because they are already riding RELatively lumps of lards anyhow. Either way we want the most nimble board once up on the foil.


so for example if you weigh 95kg as above. How much do you really gain by having a 95 / 100 litre board or a 75 litre board. They are both still lumps of lard. With small nimble gain on the 75 litre there is a whole swag of difficulties and disadvantages gained. More loss then gain.


hence the two board idea makes sense.
My sinknstarting adventure started poorly. So I spent the next week just paddling out (generally for a prone) then practised keeping the board down and stable.


next session with wing I was successful. But still need to solidify the skill and the wind has been horrible (as per the entire bloody summer).

so my message is just get out and sink the board for a session or two. Then add the wing.


so I'm 80kg have a 95 litre board (could be smaller but hey it's easy peasy to use, especially in marginal conditions that can still be fun) and 40 litre prone.

eppo said..



so for example if you weigh 95kg as above. How much do you really gain by having a 95 / 100 litre board or a 75 litre board. They are both still lumps of lard. With small nimble gain on the 75 litre there is a whole swag of difficulties and disadvantages gained. More loss then gain.

Well said.??

Thanks for the replies! I missed the thread with RobM (who just so happens to foil the same spot as me - D'uh!) and the post by cnski with the "stink bug start". This looks like it could work for me. Can't wait to try it. Awesome to share what works with each other to keep pushing this sport further ahead and to bring more advanced (low volume) boards within reach of the average rider.

eppo said..

AnyBoard said..
I weigh 65kg and my wing board is 5'2" x 24" 69l and weighs well under 4.5kg. It is not a tub of lard. It pumps really good but not as good as my 4'2" prone but surfs amazing on a downwinder. It is a one ocean custom carbon. I can limp home on the surface easy when the wind drops.
For those that a serious a custom carbon board will be mandatory in order to spec the exact size for your skill and most importantly minimize swing weight and still be able to slog home.

Exactly so given you weight what would be gained if you say a 50 -55 litre board as you main board, and was kneel starting that sucker. What gains would it have over you body weight in litres ? Not much. just way harder to start
now at your weight you could easily have a 34-35 litre prone which I think you have.
.... and dude you have a 69 litre board for a 69 kg guy. Not many of us are so lucky.

My point is that life can be very good on your weight in litres and even better around weight minus 10 or 15. Just pick the smallest you can limp home on and make it a light board and you might not wish to use your prone for downwinging. Jumping maybe.

If I only chased downwinging then my 70l will be great but for wave riding there will be a big benefit for going -15 with almost no penalty.

You riding your weight in litres is no different than me riding my weight in litres. Not sure about luck.
Enjoy.