Background: I'm 6'3", ~80kg. Will be wingfoiling on the Mississippi river valley where we don't get a ton of super windy days so I'm leaning towards light wind gear. Hoping to build a setup that can get me up in 10-15knots of wind. Its freshwater so less buoyancy from the water? But its a river, so if I'm able to turn the foil upstream I get an extra 2/3mph of water speed across it. Maybe these things are negligible, maybe not, I'm a noob.
Anyway my proposed setup.
Wing: Naish 6m Matador LT. Seems to be a good wing for light winds. CWC is out of the question due to price. This seems like it might be the next best thing, or close enough. Also the price is right on these for me. Looks like I can get a 6m for close to 500.
Foil: Gong Allvator v2 X-over. 1900 Sq. cm. 4.4 aspect ratio. A step up from their recommended "beginner" foil. But still pretty big and with a bigger and supposedly better v2 85cm mast.
Board: looking at a Gong Hipe Pro inflatable, either 105L or 115L. But I hear inflatable is harder to get off the water so still looking for options for a solid board. Finding it impossible to find any "beginner" solid board for under $800, even those are hard to find. The smaller 45-65L boards look better and cheaper, but everyone says to start on a board that will float you, so thats what I'm trying to do.
My main questions: Will I be overpowered with the 6m Matador and that foil? We do get some windier days here but basically nothing over 25k, and those are somewhat rare. I figure 90% of my riding will be in 10-20k knots
Does this sound like a good first setup for a 80kg person with zero foiling experience but a lot of wakeskating experience. I do have a boat to help get used to riding on foil without the wing.
Trying to keep this under $1800 which this setup would do. Willing to go a little higher than that if it means getting a better board. Open to suggestions on any components, especially a good starter board.
Thanks for reading and any feedback.
Select to expand quotetomer629 said..
Background: I'm 6'3", ~80kg. Will be wingfoiling on the Mississippi river valley where we don't get a ton of super windy days so I'm leaning towards light wind gear. Hoping to build a setup that can get me up in 10-15knots of wind. Its freshwater so less buoyancy from the water? But its a river, so if I'm able to turn the foil upstream I get an extra 2/3mph of water speed across it. Maybe these things are negligible, maybe not, I'm a noob.
Anyway my proposed setup.
Wing: Naish 6m Matador LT. Seems to be a good wing for light winds. CWC is out of the question due to price. This seems like it might be the next best thing, or close enough. Also the price is right on these for me. Looks like I can get a 6m for close to 500.
Foil: Gong Allvator v2 X-over. 1900 Sq. cm. 4.4 aspect ratio. A step up from their recommended "beginner" foil. But still pretty big and with a bigger and supposedly better v2 85cm mast.
Board: looking at a Gong Hipe Pro inflatable, either 105L or 115L. But I hear inflatable is harder to get off the water so still looking for options for a solid board. Finding it impossible to find any "beginner" solid board for under $800, even those are hard to find. The smaller 45-65L boards look better and cheaper, but everyone says to start on a board that will float you, so thats what I'm trying to do.
My main questions: Will I be overpowered with the 6m Matador and that foil? We do get some windier days here but basically nothing over 25k, and those are somewhat rare. I figure 90% of my riding will be in 10-20k knots
Does this sound like a good first setup for a 80kg person with zero foiling experience but a lot of wakeskating experience. I do have a boat to help get used to riding on foil without the wing.
Trying to keep this under $1800 which this setup would do. Willing to go a little higher than that if it means getting a better board. Open to suggestions on any components, especially a good starter board.
Thanks for reading and any feedback.
Please refrain from using a Matador, such a big designed wing. Any other brand will do it.
Tommer629..
At 80kg. 6m Naish is not overpowered up to 20kt at least. My two bobs worth, hope it helps.
Most of us are happy to help with gear and time at the beach . You could demo a sail if someone local is trying to sell etc.
Sounds like your getting good local advise.. You need to start on a stable board, min 115 plus. (Long is OK. Like the 7' + Naish crossover). A big board helps to get your body standing and steering and taxiing with the foil in light wind. . Starting from your knees is good practice, I needed to improve my strength and flexibility for that but it came together quickly.
I spent lots of time taxiing in strong wind on my knees at the beginning to learn going upwind in both directions. No shame. You'll find 15kt is a min required for quite a while.
A large foil (1500cm2 plus) some say helps to start with but can also be problematic if it has too much initial lift. Again borrow till you find a happy balance. I found Axis HPS 990 has good gradual initial lift and is very easy to control despite HA and being touted as a fast advanced foil. Its a pleasure, much easier than some larger low aspect foils I used at first.
I went from Armstrong HS to Axis.
my setup. 71kg.
One year in.
.Last summer - Towed 8 times. Mostly on Armstrong 1550 v1 with a 34lt prone tow board.
This summer...Winging, Start foil set up .Axis png 1010 (1440 cm2) , Jimmy Lewis 2017 7'3" 105lt converted from tuttle to tracks. 6m naish.
I still have this board and foil for others to learn and practice. We also tow with this set up now because its easy to stand on at rest in still water and the 1010 has good lift at slow speed. Sold the 6m naish wing.
After 10 wing sessions now I almost exclusively use a smaller board.
Currently wing riding..
Axis png 1300 (1700cm2) for light wind..
hps 990(1214 cm2) / 880(1112cm2) above 12/ 15kt.
board 5'2" fanatic wing board 85lt. Still use the Jimmy Lewis too.
5m smik. 3.5m smik.
More good advise I should have taken more notice of.
At first..Using the wing standing on the land for an hour or two. It really helped, Trying to learn to fly the foil and control the wing together from scratch is hard even on a large board.
Save your money for a smaller board after getting proficient on a big one. By then you'll have a good idea of what you really need./need ( probably very close to body weight plus 10lt in decent wind) In my local group we've all kept a nice larger board for light days and practice. Next stage for me is adding in an under body weight board for fresh conditions.
Probably the best advise is to be well over volumed on a board and slightly over powered with a 'good' hand wing you can keep as a light wind sail as you progress to needing less.
cwc 7 or 8 /north light wind or large mode, / D lab 6.5 could be such a sail. You would add a 5m/5.5m with a higher top end range to that later. As you say mostly the local wind is 15kt. Check out Dominick Hoskins solutions.
10kt is really hard to get going in without a proper lightwind wing. You'll find the Naish 6m under 13kt. will be a struggle.
Until we get proficient being underpowered is a big disadvantage.
Re. boards for flat water. flatter rocker is better. They generate take off speed more easily. Make it as easy as you can at first.
re video help.- Dominick Hoskins has sorted his light wind setup 'see his videos there's some very good info there especially as he is similar height and weight as yourself.
Select to expand quotesaltwaterwine said..
Tommer629..
At 80kg. 6m Naish is not overpowered up to 20kt at least. My two bobs worth, hope it helps.
Most of us are happy to help with gear and time at the beach . You could demo a sail if someone local is trying to sell etc.
Sounds like your getting good local advise.. You need to start on a stable board, min 115 plus. (Long is OK. Like the 7' + Naish crossover). A big board helps to get your body standing and steering and taxiing with the foil in light wind. . Starting from your knees is good practice, I needed to improve my strength and flexibility for that but it came together quickly.
I spent lots of time taxiing in strong wind on my knees at the beginning to learn going upwind in both directions. No shame. You'll find 15kt is a min required for quite a while.
A large foil (1500cm2 plus) some say helps to start with but can also be problematic if it has too much initial lift. Again borrow till you find a happy balance. I found Axis HPS 990 has good gradual initial lift and is very easy to control despite HA and being touted as a fast advanced foil. Its a pleasure, much easier than some larger low aspect foils I used at first.
I went from Armstrong HS to Axis.
my setup. 71kg.
One year in.
.Last summer - Towed 8 times. Mostly on Armstrong 1550 v1 with a 34lt prone tow board.
This summer...Winging, Start foil set up .Axis png 1010 (1440 cm2) , Jimmy Lewis 2017 7'3" 105lt converted from tuttle to tracks. 6m naish.
I still have this board and foil for others to learn and practice. We also tow with this set up now because its easy to stand on at rest in still water and the 1010 has good lift at slow speed. Sold the 6m naish wing.
After 10 wing sessions now I almost exclusively use a smaller board.
Currently wing riding..
Axis png 1300 (1700cm2) for light wind..
hps 990(1214 cm2) / 880(1112cm2) above 12/ 15kt.
board 5'2" fanatic wing board 85lt. Still use the Jimmy Lewis too.
5m smik. 3.5m smik.
More good advise I should have taken more notice of.
At first..Using the wing standing on the land for an hour or two. It really helped, Trying to learn to fly the foil and control the wing together from scratch is hard even on a large board.
Save your money for a smaller board after getting proficient on a big one. By then you'll have a good idea of what you really need./need ( probably very close to body weight plus 10lt in decent wind) In my local group we've all kept a nice larger board for light days and practice. Next stage for me is adding in an under body weight board for fresh conditions.
Probably the best advise is to be well over volumed on a board and slightly over powered with a 'good' hand wing you can keep as a light wind sail as you progress to needing less.
cwc 7 or 8 /north light wind or large mode, / D lab 6.5 could be such a sail. You would add a 5m/5.5m with a higher top end range to that later. As you say mostly the local wind is 15kt. Check out Dominick Hoskins solutions.
10kt is really hard to get going in without a proper lightwind wing. You'll find the Naish 6m under 13kt. will be a struggle.
Until we get proficient being underpowered is a big disadvantage.
Re. boards for flat water. flatter rocker is better. They generate take off speed more easily. Make it as easy as you can at first.
re video help.- Dominick Hoskins has sorted his light wind setup 'see his videos there's some very good info there especially as he is similar height and weight as yourself.
Thanks for the detailed response. Really helpful. Unfortunately testing or borrowing gear isn't really an option. Closest place that even sells wingfoiling gear is 3 hours. I've never seen anyone near me winging so I'm pretty much on my own which is why I'm trying to gather as much info as possible before buying anything.
I don't expect to get up at 10 knots at first. But you're saying 13 is pretty much the low range for a 6m Naish LT?
You say flat rocker is best for learning. I've read that one of the biggest cons of inflatable boards is how flat they are. So this would actually be exactly what I want at first then right? I don't need crazy performance any time soon.
Select to expand quotemarco said..tomer629 said..
Background: I'm 6'3", ~80kg. Will be wingfoiling on the Mississippi river valley where we don't get a ton of super windy days so I'm leaning towards light wind gear. Hoping to build a setup that can get me up in 10-15knots of wind. Its freshwater so less buoyancy from the water? But its a river, so if I'm able to turn the foil upstream I get an extra 2/3mph of water speed across it. Maybe these things are negligible, maybe not, I'm a noob.
Anyway my proposed setup.
Wing: Naish 6m Matador LT. Seems to be a good wing for light winds. CWC is out of the question due to price. This seems like it might be the next best thing, or close enough. Also the price is right on these for me. Looks like I can get a 6m for close to 500.
Foil: Gong Allvator v2 X-over. 1900 Sq. cm. 4.4 aspect ratio. A step up from their recommended "beginner" foil. But still pretty big and with a bigger and supposedly better v2 85cm mast.
Board: looking at a Gong Hipe Pro inflatable, either 105L or 115L. But I hear inflatable is harder to get off the water so still looking for options for a solid board. Finding it impossible to find any "beginner" solid board for under $800, even those are hard to find. The smaller 45-65L boards look better and cheaper, but everyone says to start on a board that will float you, so thats what I'm trying to do.
My main questions: Will I be overpowered with the 6m Matador and that foil? We do get some windier days here but basically nothing over 25k, and those are somewhat rare. I figure 90% of my riding will be in 10-20k knots
Does this sound like a good first setup for a 80kg person with zero foiling experience but a lot of wakeskating experience. I do have a boat to help get used to riding on foil without the wing.
Trying to keep this under $1800 which this setup would do. Willing to go a little higher than that if it means getting a better board. Open to suggestions on any components, especially a good starter board.
Thanks for reading and any feedback.
Please refrain from using a Matador, such a big designed wing. Any other brand will do it.
What do you mean? Are you saying all big wings are the same or that I should specifically avoid a Matador LT?
Select to expand quotetomer629 said..
Background: I'm 6'3", ~80kg. Will be wingfoiling on the Mississippi river valley where we don't get a ton of super windy days so I'm leaning towards light wind gear. Hoping to build a setup that can get me up in 10-15knots of wind. Its freshwater so less buoyancy from the water? But its a river, so if I'm able to turn the foil upstream I get an extra 2/3mph of water speed across it. Maybe these things are negligible, maybe not, I'm a noob.
Anyway my proposed setup.
Wing: Naish 6m Matador LT. Seems to be a good wing for light winds. CWC is out of the question due to price. This seems like it might be the next best thing, or close enough. Also the price is right on these for me. Looks like I can get a 6m for close to 500.
Foil: Gong Allvator v2 X-over. 1900 Sq. cm. 4.4 aspect ratio. A step up from their recommended "beginner" foil. But still pretty big and with a bigger and supposedly better v2 85cm mast.
Board: looking at a Gong Hipe Pro inflatable, either 105L or 115L. But I hear inflatable is harder to get off the water so still looking for options for a solid board. Finding it impossible to find any "beginner" solid board for under $800, even those are hard to find. The smaller 45-65L boards look better and cheaper, but everyone says to start on a board that will float you, so thats what I'm trying to do.
My main questions: Will I be overpowered with the 6m Matador and that foil? We do get some windier days here but basically nothing over 25k, and those are somewhat rare. I figure 90% of my riding will be in 10-20k knots
Does this sound like a good first setup for a 80kg person with zero foiling experience but a lot of wakeskating experience. I do have a boat to help get used to riding on foil without the wing.
Trying to keep this under $1800 which this setup would do. Willing to go a little higher than that if it means getting a better board. Open to suggestions on any components, especially a good starter board.
Thanks for reading and any feedback.
Hi, when learning you actually want to be kind of overpowered, especially in the wing since your technique is going to be poor. 10-15kn for learning is light wind, 6m would be the least I would consider. Anything you buy, try to get the latest model, there is a huge improvement in wing design from year to year. A 6m from this year will behave like a 6.5/7m from previous years, depending on brand/model.
As far as the board, you might consider second hand to spare some money. I don't really like inflatable as they feel weird once you use a solid one, but I haven't tried one of the latest models. In such light wind you need an efficient board to lift the foil, or it will stick to the water and make your life a lot more difficult in order to lift the foil. By that I mean no double concaves, weird diagonal cuts etc... it should end with very sharp vertical edges in order to avoid any drag. It might be slightly less stable but we are talking about big volume boards, so drag would be more important in such wind range, stability will come by its size. To people with foiling experience I generally suggest to get the cheapest big board they can find as they will outgrow them as soon as they understand how to get going on the foil. In your case you will use it a little big longer since you don't know how to foil. As per size, 105 might be difficult to learn, 115l should be ok. If you have flat water conditions you can downsize a bit.
85 mast is fine, just make sure that where you are planning to learn it's not too shallow. As for the foil, area does not necessarily correlate to lower end. Depending on the shape, aspect ratio, thickness you might find that some of the older big foils are not the most efficient solutions. I have never tried the Gong ones, 4.4 seems really low aspect, something that you would see in the old-fashion foils model. As a beginner with no experience I wouldn't suggest you a very high aspect one, but something around AR=6 might be a good trade-off.
This is my 6m Matador LT with a 2140 foil on an 85cm mast and using a 125L board.. So it a similar set up to what you are planing to get..
I'm 100kgs and 6'4".. I'd hate to be learning with a big 6m.. It's going to be hard work.. but it's do'able.. and if you only have light winds you don't have much choice.. Lucky you're tall.. I love my 6m Matador LT..
With your budget $1800, why not stick with the Gong full package deal. 2023 Plus 7m wing, (or 6m), Hipe First board, (5'11 or 6'6" to make things easy as possible) X-over foil, with the V2 mast. Then if you have enough $$ left over, get a 2023 5meter Plus to complete a quiver for your area. The Hipe first board is very good in light wind, it's the easiest board I've used to take off with. (it's only sticky on some touchdowns from what i can tell) The 2023 Plus wings are good too and i think youll be using your 7m more than the 5m.
Makes sense. Go full Gong for the budget or take a Takoon wing. It's an excellent wing. I started with Takoon 6m. I am now on a North / KT quiver of three wings: 6m, 4.2m and 3.0m
I still think of the Takoon as one of my best wings, featherlight and excellent price quality.
Ps. My first board was a 105L Takoon .. excellent quality and build. And wingfoiling in freshwater lakes here.
Select to expand quotetomer629 said..saltwaterwine said..
Tommer629..
At 80kg. 6m Naish is not overpowered up to 20kt at least. My two bobs worth, hope it helps.
Most of us are happy to help with gear and time at the beach . You could demo a sail if someone local is trying to sell etc.
Sounds like your getting good local advise.. You need to start on a stable board, min 115 plus. (Long is OK. Like the 7' + Naish crossover). A big board helps to get your body standing and steering and taxiing with the foil in light wind. . Starting from your knees is good practice, I needed to improve my strength and flexibility for that but it came together quickly.
I spent lots of time taxiing in strong wind on my knees at the beginning to learn going upwind in both directions. No shame. You'll find 15kt is a min required for quite a while.
A large foil (1500cm2 plus) some say helps to start with but can also be problematic if it has too much initial lift. Again borrow till you find a happy balance. I found Axis HPS 990 has good gradual initial lift and is very easy to control despite HA and being touted as a fast advanced foil. Its a pleasure, much easier than some larger low aspect foils I used at first.
I went from Armstrong HS to Axis.
my setup. 71kg.
One year in.
.Last summer - Towed 8 times. Mostly on Armstrong 1550 v1 with a 34lt prone tow board.
This summer...Winging, Start foil set up .Axis png 1010 (1440 cm2) , Jimmy Lewis 2017 7'3" 105lt converted from tuttle to tracks. 6m naish.
I still have this board and foil for others to learn and practice. We also tow with this set up now because its easy to stand on at rest in still water and the 1010 has good lift at slow speed. Sold the 6m naish wing.
After 10 wing sessions now I almost exclusively use a smaller board.
Currently wing riding..
Axis png 1300 (1700cm2) for light wind..
hps 990(1214 cm2) / 880(1112cm2) above 12/ 15kt.
board 5'2" fanatic wing board 85lt. Still use the Jimmy Lewis too.
5m smik. 3.5m smik.
More good advise I should have taken more notice of.
At first..Using the wing standing on the land for an hour or two. It really helped, Trying to learn to fly the foil and control the wing together from scratch is hard even on a large board.
Save your money for a smaller board after getting proficient on a big one. By then you'll have a good idea of what you really need./need ( probably very close to body weight plus 10lt in decent wind) In my local group we've all kept a nice larger board for light days and practice. Next stage for me is adding in an under body weight board for fresh conditions.
Probably the best advise is to be well over volumed on a board and slightly over powered with a 'good' hand wing you can keep as a light wind sail as you progress to needing less.
cwc 7 or 8 /north light wind or large mode, / D lab 6.5 could be such a sail. You would add a 5m/5.5m with a higher top end range to that later. As you say mostly the local wind is 15kt. Check out Dominick Hoskins solutions.
10kt is really hard to get going in without a proper lightwind wing. You'll find the Naish 6m under 13kt. will be a struggle.
Until we get proficient being underpowered is a big disadvantage.
Re. boards for flat water. flatter rocker is better. They generate take off speed more easily. Make it as easy as you can at first.
re video help.- Dominick Hoskins has sorted his light wind setup 'see his videos there's some very good info there especially as he is similar height and weight as yourself.
Thanks for the detailed response. Really helpful. Unfortunately testing or borrowing gear isn't really an option. Closest place that even sells wingfoiling gear is 3 hours. I've never seen anyone near me winging so I'm pretty much on my own which is why I'm trying to gather as much info as possible before buying anything.
I don't expect to get up at 10 knots at first. But you're saying 13 is pretty much the low range for a 6m Naish LT?
You say flat rocker is best for learning. I've read that one of the biggest cons of inflatable boards is how flat they are. So this would actually be exactly what I want at first then right? I don't need crazy performance any time soon.
Im not recommending an inflatable board at any cost.
You do need a good performance board from the beginning it will make it easier to generate the speed needed to take off.
You can always de power by sheeting out and heading higher but dragging around a pig isn't getting you learning.
Ive read through all your responders theres a lot of great advice. Such a cool community
.
I would try to get a hand on second hand gear instead. I think a good used board in the 6'-6'6" range...could be a lot better,and since every body think shorter is better and it's very not the case when learning, you can find some for a good price.I would say a 6'7 at 115L will be so much easier to learn on than a 5'5 a 145L for example. I would purchase a foil where you can upgrade and having to change the system, but realistically after a while, when you really know what you are doing and know what would work for you, you will probably sell the whole foil and board and only keep the wing, so buy you hand wing carefully!!
