After an epic session on the HA725, I put in an order for the HA525.
Anyone have any comparisons to share between the two?
I'm hoping to gain a MPH or two for when I'm out drag racing with buddies.
The slipperiness and intuitive nature of the 725 has me craving more of that feeling. I was able to do my best turns to date on the 725 with 60 fuse, 195 tail with .5 shim. Carving backside on little knee high ripples in 30mph with 3m -> Going to 12:00 into the wind all the way to 6:00 and back to 12:00 on repeat in the tightest radius, all while going up and down like pow turns (powered up with the wing). I've never had a bigger grin winging I don't think. I'm hoping the 525 will do that for me on more substantial sized waves/swell. As a lightweight, it is a truly awesome experience to have full control of the foil, rather than trying to manage it.
Not winging on 725 yet but prone surfing and towing it lots.insane wing,so fast and turns hard and quick ,never been overfoiled on it yet, can't imagine needing the 525 but would love to try !
At 175lbs +gear I've had a few great sessions on the HA725. Need to get it into some decent size waves soon. Don't see myself ever winging the HA525. Looking forward to your insights.
At 81kg I have been using the 725 quite a lot for winging. I am able to use it on flat water, but also in bigger waves and strong wind downwinders. I have been spending quite some time on the 525 too. I have used it only on flat water. My setup has been 50/v200 and 60/195. Both with red shims.
Getting on foil requires more effort compared to the 725 (as you would expect). It feels (much) faster compared to the 725. It is also more lose. Going back to the 925 afterwards it feels super slow. I am even able to tack the 525 without dropping of the foil in 50-75% of the cases (I am able to tack the 725 successfully 99% of the cases).
I would have never expected that I could ride the 525 comfortably with my weight. After riding it a few times I would have never expected that I would be able to tack it. The bar gets raised automatically. It is a matter of getting used to and spending time on it. The possibilities of the foil are far greater than you would expect. For sure they are far greater than I expected.
If there are specific questions, just shout.
Select to expand quoteHubDekkers said..
At 81kg I have been using the 725 quite a lot for winging. I am able to use it on flat water, but also in bigger waves and strong wind downwinders. I have been spending quite some time on the 525 too. I have used it only on flat water. My setup has been 50/v200 and 60/195. Both with red shims.
Getting on foil requires more effort compared to the 725 (as you would expect). It feels (much) faster compared to the 725. It is also more lose. Going back to the 925 afterwards it feels super slow. I am even able to tack the 525 without dropping of the foil in 50-75% of the cases (I am able to tack the 725 successfully 99% of the cases).
I would have never expected that I could ride the 525 comfortably with my weight. After riding it a few times I would have never expected that I would be able to tack it. The bar gets raised automatically. It is a matter of getting used to and spending time on it. The possibilities of the foil are far greater than you would expect. For sure they are far greater than I expected.
If there are specific questions, just shout.
Awesome feedback, thanks!
Curious about wind speeds and wing sizes you've used it in so far. Sinker board or semi sinker?
I chatted with an Olympic kiwi sailor who is around my weight and she loves it. Kinda mirrored your thoughts, but said it wasn't much harder to get up than the 725.
I have experienced the drop from the 925 to the 725 bigger as the drop from the 725 to 525. So relatively speaking I found the 525 to pop on foil easier.
I haven't tracked the exact windspeeds I have been using the foil, but normally I use 4.5 wings and smaller. Normally I am on the smaller side compared to other on the water. I normally don't choose the foil depending on wind speeds. I believe you just need to pump a little harder to get going with smaller foils in lighter wind. As soon as you are on the foil, it normally is okay. For example, I have been using the 725 in 12-14 knots with a 4.5 wing. Pumping on foil is brutal, but afterwards its fine.
I haven't used the 525 with a sinker board yet. I only have been using it with my 60 liter board. I have been using the 725 and other foils often with my 27 liter board. Just did not get around to try the 525 on the small board yet (with the wing). I have been using the 525 on the small board with a winch though:
It truly is a joy to ride!
First session on the 525. Flat(ish) water with gusty 10-30 mph range with averages right around 20. Mostly overpowered on a 5M OR Glide.
Few weeks ago, I couldn't get the 525 up in 15mph, almost.just kept slamming down. Today no problem with power so I got to figure out the launch technique. As others have said, it doesn't like to be deweighted upon liftoff. I had to keep steady, quiet pressure on my front leg until up to about 10mph speed, then game on. I think I was on foil at around 6-8mph, but those extra few mph while taking off really require some patience.
At first it was as if I was 6 years old again, trying out a bicycle without training wheels.twitchy and unstable. I quickly realized the foil wasn't unstable, it was me being a spaz. I chilled out and eased into the flow of the wing. First go on my heelside tack I felt like I was rocketing straight upwind. Bearing off the wind was nuts.so much speed. I didn't find the top end limit of course, but did hit 20mph on a broad reach followed by a high radius Heineken gybe, which felt amazing (entered at 19mph and exited at 15mph).
Felt like I could have gone much faster, but pitchiness was there and reaction time is magnified.
Stall speed seemed to be around 8-9mph for me. I made all of my toeside tacks with brief touch downs, mostly due to poor wing handling. Coming out of gybes with hardly any apparent wind was no problem (so long as I handled the wing right). It just glides and builds apparent wind. Also no problems goink through the holes of the wind. So efficient.
Can't wait to get this wing into some wave/bump sessions and also dial in configurations. Going to try Hubs 50/fv200 combo for sure and maybe even a 70 with -1 shim for a speed run.
So much potential with this wing. Definitely demanding, but much easier than I thought it would be. Only fell in twice during the (short) session 
I usually use for winging the 725 with 50 fuse + vflying chopped + mast 72. No shim (-1)
But I have also the 525. The 525 start to fly from 14-15 knots with a 5m (my weight 77kg).
The main difference between the 725 and 525 to my point of view is that the 525 need for my weight to do "snowboard trajectory". If the turns are short the 525 fall. It need always a good speed, it demands more physically, you go also quicker than the 725 clearly...If you don't need to turn short it's not tough to maintain the fly even if the wind drop (good pumping). The tacks are tougher in the sens that you have to do them quickly and you can not sleep doing them. :)
The 725 need maybe 13 knots to start with a 5m and you have the possibility to turn or to tack short and to find the way to keep going. It's more confortable. It doesn't demand so much physically.
I keep the 525 basically for big waves.
Select to expand quoteSonsaleta said..
I usually use for winging the 725 with 50 fuse + vflying chopped + mast 72. No shim (-1)
But I have also the 525. The 525 start to fly from 14-15 knots with a 5m (my weight 77kg).
The main difference between the 725 and 525 to my point of view is that the 525 need for my weight to do "snowboard trajectory". If the turns are short the 525 fall. It need always a good speed, it demands more physically, you go also quicker than the 725 clearly...If you don't need to turn short it's not tough to maintain the fly even if the wind drop (good pumping). The tacks are tougher in the sens that you have to do them quickly and you can not sleep doing them. :)
The 725 need maybe 13 knots to start with a 5m and you have the possibility to turn or to tack short and to find the way to keep going. It's more confortable. It doesn't demand so much physically.
I keep the 525 basically for big waves.
Yeah 'snowboard trajectory' is a great way to put it! I'm a downhill snowboard groomer ripper at heart so maybe that is why I'm psyching on it. Tuning it to your liking is probably even more crucial for these faster wings. Mast placement being a bigger deal maybe. Laying a fast gybe with balance for or aft can make or break the feel you want.
With a little helpful nudging from MidAtlantic and another friend locally on Oahu, I took the plunge and picked up an HA525. Before I start, I'm 75Kg, riding a 69L board, 60cm A+ fuse, with the HA195 tail and Reedin Wings (Superwing 2 and Xwings).
I had my first run yesterday. Wind meters were reading 12-21mph and there was a shoulder to head high swell rolling through the middle of the bay (at right tide these will stand up for good steep sections). I rigged up the Superwing 4.7 and, with a skeptical mind, headed out into the ocean. With a gust I was immediately able to get up and stay on foil even as the wind got lighter. Honeymoon report here, but I'm really impressed. Without hearing from others, I would have never imagined the 525 would be a winging option, but it is.
The good:
-much more accessible than I would have ever imagined (wind was mostly around 15mph yesterday)
-much more stable than I anticipated, not that different than the 725
-turns like a shortboard and builds speed really well when pump/pushing through turns makes small bumps a lot of fun
-every bit as much glide as the 725 and, in some ways, seems like potential for more because of how slippery it is through the water, not sure if that makes sense, but it feels that way riding it
-speed potential seems high
The downside:
-like my HA195 tail, my 525 whistles like crazy at higher speed. It took three tried sanding to get the 195 right, I did sanding (Donaldson curve) session number 1 today on the 525. It might be a week or two before I get another try to see how it turned out.
-definitely not a beginner foil, but if you're comfortable on the 725, you can handle the 525
I'm looking forward to having a higher wind session and seeing what its like in bigger surf.
For others riding these, are you having any problems holding high speed bottom turns on bigger surf?
Updated review after a few more sessions.
First off, its crazy how little wind it takes to get this foil going. I was using a 5.2M Reeding Superwing 2 today in 10-15mph winds and was on foil. That said, while it's doable in these lighter conditions the 525 really starts to shine at 15+. Trying to jibe the 525 in super light wind is really challenging for me. It's very easy to over-run your wing and get backwinded and the 525 is not forgiving in those moments, it drops right off foil in turns if you are not banking off a wave to carry you through a lull in a turn.
Something unexpected, as a result of riding the 525, I sold my 925. I realized that I can ride one size up in my hand wing and easily cover all the same wind range with a 725 and 525 as I used to cover with a 925 and 725.
Update to thought from last post... where I was describing a feeling like I had just as much glide with the 525 I think I figured out where that was coming from. One of the most exciting things about this tiny foil is that you can turn on and stay in the steepest part of a swell and not worry about foiling out. This means that you can carry a lot more speed when banking into a wave. With speed being one of the factors for glide, I think the perception of "just as much glide" comes into play. In reality, while the glide is excellent and it is very responsive to pumping (at 75kg,) the 725 has a good bit more glide and is considerably more forgiving to rider error or slowing down during jibes.
I been riding the HA725 for a couple of weeks (65kgs, 55L Core board with 3.5, 4.5 and 5.5 Core wings) and love it! Yes, first few sessions of "dolphining" starts but body + mind eventually figures it out. I just managed to borrow a HA525 from Mark at WASURF and keen to quickly clock flat water cruising speeds between the HA725 and HA525 e.g. with a 4.5 or 3.5 nicely powered up 85cm mast with HA195 stab. Will also try to clock minimum jibe speeds (not sure how accurate my Garmin Fenix 6). I have not got my 'speed run' technique figured out so 'top' end measurement is not fair to measure yet.
Some photos between the two foils ..
** Any other tests anyone interested between the HA725 and HA525? For water conditions here, we also do some winging 'summer' bumps flagging out at Freo/Cottesloe. Just something for me to work on while out there (I work in IoT and data is the life blood hhh) 
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So far, for me the HA525 is still very challenging to pop up in less than fully powered e.g. 15knts 4.5 but getting there .. once up ... damn, its so fun ...
HA525 TC60 HA195 Core 55L XC 4.5 est. 15knts
