Board leash to back of waist harness or thick belt so board stays away. Planing winds, board can drift faster than 3 mph after falls.
Strap wing leash to front.
6' is tall.

hilly said..
Start her learning to foil first behind a boat if possible. Then do the wing after she can foil. Learning 2 new things is harder than one at a time.

I thought about that but I sort of felt behind boat was a bit more dangerous and logistically difficult right now. I've seen some ugly falls foiling behind boat. But maybe. Plus legally I need a third and I don't have one. Hmmmm. I respect your experience though. Maybe will try on Wednesday. The big obstacle is I only have a 20 foot competition ski boat and it sucks in any type of chop And this entire next seven days is nonstop wind

rockwind1 said..

hilly said..
Start her learning to foil first behind a boat if possible. Then do the wing after she can foil. Learning 2 new things is harder than one at a time.

I thought about that but I sort of felt behind boat was a bit more dangerous and logistically difficult right now. I've seen some ugly falls foiling behind boat. But maybe. Plus legally I need a third and I don't have one. Hmmmm. I respect your experience though. Maybe will try on Wednesday. The big obstacle is I only have a 20 foot competition ski boat and it sucks in any type of chop And this entire next seven days is nonstop wind

Behind the boat is the key, too difficult to learn two things in one. I tried to teach my daughter just using the wing without any foil on a SUP and that was hard enough.

Learning the foil dynamics behind a boat is absolutely the fastest, best, and arguably safest way to begin the journey. If windy, go to the lee side of your waterway and start towing. I have spent the past two weeks teaching some of my cousins how to foil, ranging in age from 10-50. All of them were able to foil in 1-3 sessions, those with watersports experience and balance were foiling in 2-3 pulls, with proper instruction. So fun to watch them progress and to spread the stoke. All behind an aluminum fishing boat with an 8hp 2-stroke outboard. Yes, 8 horsepower. Speeds from 5-16mph. Bad falls and injuries are avoided by a somewhat lengthy safety talk including how to fall, when to bail, and starting slow. Boat boat boat!

airsail said..
No need for a boat. Yes to the leash and a small foil wing, you don't want the board to lift in the first stages.

All you want is for her to cruise back and forth, no foiling. Just get used to controlling the wing in the light stuff, the foil will provide a lot of stability to the board and help her point upwind.

so my naish came with the little fins,, 4 of them, in little tuttle boxes. i can't find them now of course,, but those are not really necessary with the foil attached? i mean,, to help stay up wind? while not on foil, just basically sup'g aroundwith the wing?

marco said..

rockwind1 said..

hilly said..
Start her learning to foil first behind a boat if possible. Then do the wing after she can foil. Learning 2 new things is harder than one at a time.

I thought about that but I sort of felt behind boat was a bit more dangerous and logistically difficult right now. I've seen some ugly falls foiling behind boat. But maybe. Plus legally I need a third and I don't have one. Hmmmm. I respect your experience though. Maybe will try on Wednesday. The big obstacle is I only have a 20 foot competition ski boat and it sucks in any type of chop And this entire next seven days is nonstop wind

Behind the boat is the key, too difficult to learn two things in one. I tried to teach my daughter just using the wing without any foil on a SUP and that was hard enough.

thanks marco,,, will try it. it's a pita but i have a boat and it is do able. assume you are the same marco on kite forum who is quite the rabble rouser? or is it mateo who is the rabble rouser?

Key coaching tips include:

-Starting with a large, floaty board so that it can be stood on easliy (I use a Takuma ZK 7'5" 125 liter)
-Feet 90 degrees to stringer, and centered rail to rail
-Having student stand up when boat is moving forward at trolling speed - 2-4mph (board is way more stable with tiny amount of forward motion)
-Stressing good, strong, straight upper body posture while being loose and flexy at the ankles and knees (SUPER IMPORTANT!)
-Maintaining flat board on the roll axis before flight is attempted (Also VERY important)
-Start with low altitude touch and go's to understand how flight is achieved and controlled
-Concentrate on straight, level flight at first - between bubble line (turbulent) and wake (other challenges)
-Reinforce how subtle the weight inputs are to change attitude/direction/altitude/pitch/roll and how slowly the foil reacts to these inputs to reduce pitch and roll oscillation
-Let them know that it takes quite a bit of persistence and frustration, especially since once it clicks it appears to be so easy
-Physical and mental breaks after 20-30 minutes to rest the body and digest all of the instruction
-Precise location of feet (especially front,) and when flight looks difficult, moving in very small increments
-Can't stress enough the good posture aspect. ANY "breaking" at the waist ALWAYS results in a fall
-Positive verbal reinforcement, smiles, and patience from instructor - students often feel guilty for taking too many turns, or too long of a turn, or too much of instructor's time
-Slowish towing speeds but far above the stall speed of wing, near the stall speed instability dramatically increases
-For those of age, one beer to take the edge off often seems to help! (I'm not into booze, but one unit can relax and not affect balance and coordination too much)
-Telling students to keep their body within an imaginary 3D box extending up from the rails and feet at ALL times (and good posture again)
-When things start to go awry, let go of rope and stand over board or push away hard with feet and start again (explain the taco, how it happens and why it is Bad)
-Explain that once it clicks, it IS easy, much like riding a bike. In this analogy the first few times you ride a bike it seems impossible to balance, but once you get it, you hardly even think about it you just ride!
-Also helps to know that it is a lifetime journey, like most fun individual action sports (skiing, mtn biking, etc) and there will always be room to grow & improve, and there will ALWAYS be someone better than you (that wonderful humbling aspect)
-HAPPY FLYING

will post more as I think of them

edit: don't try to introduce pumping until comfortable with straight level flight. Too much too soon. Rope slack is quickly picked up by boat in most cases

LeeD said..
If I had read the above before starting surfing, windsurfing, snowboarding, windfoiling, motocross, roadracing, tennis, I'd never have taken up the sport.
Structure is ok, but rules take away the fun.

not helpful, LeeD, as per usual - try posting something useful/positive

they aren't rules, they are coaching tips, lighten up!

the smiles generated, speed of progress witnessed, and stoke felt over the past two weeks teaching first time foilers using the methods above are testament to their effectiveness. They can be introduced one or three at a time, so as not to be overwhelming.

rockwind1 said..

LeeD said..
Board leash to back of waist harness or thick belt so board stays away. Planing winds, board can drift faster than 3 mph after falls.
Strap wing leash to front.
6' is tall.

Could I get a little bit more clarification on that?. So the typical board leash to the ankle is not a good idea? Why does a board leash attached to the back of a belt keep the board staying away from her in the event of a crash?

Typically LeeD is confused again! A back leash has no greater effect at keeping a board at distance compared to a leg leash. Distance is controlled by leash length.
My take on waist leashes is that they keep the leash from tangling a little better than a leg leash. My leg leash used to tangle in my feet more often and also around the foil occasionally. IMO the waist leash tends it better.
I still strap the wing leash to my arm, but I've heard of others strapping it to their shoulder of an impact vest and the front of the waist belt.
Lots of different combos.

FoilColorado said..
Key coaching tips include:

-Starting with a large, floaty board so that it can be stood on easliy (I use a Takuma ZK 7'5" 125 liter)
-Feet 90 degrees to stringer, and centered rail to rail
-Having student stand up when boat is moving forward at trolling speed - 2-4mph (board is way more stable with tiny amount of forward motion)
-Stressing good, strong, straight upper body posture while being loose and flexy at the ankles and knees (SUPER IMPORTANT!)
-Maintaining flat board on the roll axis before flight is attempted (Also VERY important)
-Start with low altitude touch and go's to understand how flight is achieved and controlled
-Concentrate on straight, level flight at first - between bubble line (turbulent) and wake (other challenges)
-Reinforce how subtle the weight inputs are to change attitude/direction/altitude/pitch/roll and how slowly the foil reacts to these inputs to reduce pitch and roll oscillation
-Let them know that it takes quite a bit of persistence and frustration, especially since once it clicks it appears to be so easy
-Physical and mental breaks after 20-30 minutes to rest the body and digest all of the instruction
-Precise location of feet (especially front,) and when flight looks difficult, moving in very small increments
-Can't stress enough the good posture aspect. ANY "breaking" at the waist ALWAYS results in a fall
-Positive verbal reinforcement, smiles, and patience from instructor - students often feel guilty for taking too many turns, or too long of a turn, or too much of instructor's time
-Slowish towing speeds but far above the stall speed of wing, near the stall speed instability dramatically increases
-For those of age, one beer to take the edge off often seems to help! (I'm not into booze, but one unit can relax and not affect balance and coordination too much)
-Telling students to keep their body within an imaginary 3D box extending up from the rails and feet at ALL times (and good posture again)
-When things start to go awry, let go of rope and stand over board or push away hard with feet and start again (explain the taco, how it happens and why it is Bad)
-Explain that once it clicks, it IS easy, much like riding a bike. In this analogy the first few times you ride a bike it seems impossible to balance, but once you get it, you hardly even think about it you just ride!
-Also helps to know that it is a lifetime journey, like most fun individual action sports (skiing, mtn biking, etc) and there will always be room to grow & improve, and there will ALWAYS be someone better than you (that wonderful humbling aspect)
-HAPPY FLYING

will post more as I think of them

edit: don't try to introduce pumping until comfortable with straight level flight. Too much too soon. Rope slack is quickly picked up by boat in most cases

FoilCokorado
Awesome. Really like the body form tips. My nephew did 2 sesh today. 2 nd one he's cutting across the wake nailing his control. So cool to see. Big grin

my sister well a work in progress. Think the body form tips will be key

I prefer both leashes to the impact vest, not to any limb.

I also wish I had learned the foil behind a boat. I think I'd still be winging instead of back to windfoiling.

One more helpful tip:

If student is having major difficulty balancing whilst standing, knee foiling is a great option to learn the dynamics of the foil. Only drawback is that the fore/aft weighting is a bit trickier using torso in kneeling position than feet in surf stance.
Happy Foiling!

I think longer is better

helps to stay away from wake and bubble line turbulence, both of which are quite unnerving

Hey Rockwind,
I gave a couple of teenage friends a hand at getting up on my foil (Axis 1060 - 1800cm area - with long 88cm windsurfoiling fuse and 60cm mast) paired with 144L Smik Mongrel SUP (about 8'8" long) last weekend. We were towing behind a 3m tinny with a 15 hp motor. Rope about 15m long.
We would start off with them standing on the board in the volume balance point. Slow tow speed. Then slowly build speed and as speed built, slowly shuffle feet back more towards the balance point of the foil. I reckon (from experience and what I've seen on tube and Foilcolorado's tips) get them out wide away from the prop turbulence and boat wake. Gabs was standing a little further forwards on the board (slightly in front of the foil balance point) and this worked well. It meant she would require more lift from the foil to fly. It took a bit more boat speed to get her that lift as there was more load on her front foot pushing the foil down. But it worked well as the forces of lift from the foil and downward pressure balanced out well. She flew at about 16 km/h. Having her out wide meant that she was able to 'edge' away from the boat as the foil flew her, and she could keep tension on the rope. There were a number of times she was slow to edge and the rope went slack. She managed to stay on the board, and I think the longer fuse (88cm) gave her that bit of extra stability. Plus when the board dropped, it was big volume and forgiving at that slower speed so assisted in not pitching her off.
Oliver gave it a run and he was able to move closer to the balance point of the foil and fly much earlier. But you could see the front and back foot pressure for him had to be more precise otherwise he'd get chucked off. He flew at about 10km/h. Again, stay out wide and edge/lean slightly away from the boat, then as the foil comes up and the resistance of the foil drops there's a tendency to 'catch up' to the boat. Edging and leaning away from the boat at the right time will assist in overcoming the rope slackness.
Both of them were having multiple minute long rides after 10 mins each trying.
Conditions were super calm - no wind or waves so perfect for learning - except for sub 10 deg C temps. They do have some gymnastics skills and natural athleticism. Don't want to brag, but the gear I have is really good to learn on and the conditions also massively assisted. Flat calm makes it MUUUCH easier.
Dont give up. It's such a great skill to acquire and will serve them well for any foiling stuff they get into.

The other thing I'd add to that was when the board was almost out of the water and foiling, I'd get them to just edge out wider to increase tension in the rope, and that would give them the lift to fly. Kept boat speed static at that point so they could make the thing fly, not me towing them up.
I can't comment on trying a smaller board. Yet to do that.