The future of windsurfing

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Bluedog76
Bluedog76
249 posts
249 posts
11 May 2009 6:25pm
The topic of adjustable sails (one sail different sizes) has sparked an, idea, maybe a bad one but an idea none the less.

We always look back at windsurifng gimmicks and concept....so what lies ahead, who can come up with the future for a boom, mast and a sail on a board.

Here is a few that may take some time:
1. Electronic push button Downhaul and outhaul that makes a cool winch motor sound.

2. Little solar powered properllers to get you on the plan in marginal conditions

3. Dynamic hull control (DHC) - a solid middle "channel" bit of board that is down when you need a bigger planning surface and up when you want less surface area.

4. Retractable winds that come out once you are going fast enough to lift you just above the water making use of the MIG effect (I don't know much about it of if that is the right spelling?)

5. Lighweight.solid.sail.concept.dot.north.com

6. An oar that you can't let go of to fend off sharks just in case you fall off your board with the propeller going.

Well, these are probably a load of ***t but what does the future hold?

How light can a board get????????
Wet Willy
Wet Willy
TAS
2317 posts
TAS, 2317 posts
11 May 2009 10:39pm
Oil floats on the surface, right?

A board made of oil will therefore plane immediately!


Where do I collect my Nobel Prize?
swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
12 May 2009 1:10am
Bluedog76 said...


4. Retractable winds that come out once you are going fast enough to lift you just above the water making use of the MIG effect (I don't know much about it of if that is the right spelling?)

How light can a board get????????


I think you mean WIG, Wing In Ground effect.

As far as lightness goes, I don't think you will get too much lighter unless someone decides to build a hollow board with just stiffeners under certain bits. However there is a fair few hurdles to overcome in the development of something like that and really probably wouldn't be worth it in the end of the day. Thou don't really know if increasing the skin thickness and the addition of stiffeners would end up with a weight decrease that would be worth the increase in price.

I guess you could look at using honeycomb materials in the core, but I don't think they really don't get down to the low densities of some of the foams that the guys are using, however most of my research has been into higher strength cores, probably much more then required in a board. Plus it would wouldn't be as easy to shape as foam. Maybe you can use something like Aerogel (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel), not sure what the mechanical properties are like, but it sure is low density, probably around a 2kg weight saving on a 90L board.

One area for possible improvement is changing the manufacturing techniques and materials, using prepreg materials cured in autoclaves (don't think foam could handle the temp and pressure thou?), or maybe just room temp prepregs you will be able to have a lighter and stronger layup on the board. Don't think anyone uses this kinda stuff for windsurfing board yet do they?

Could also obviously change the layups and amount of reinforcements used in the boards, however I think some of the custom boards floating around these days are already pretty damn close to as light as you can go.


As far as the other stuff goes, I think most of the stuff adds too much complication to a sport which I think one of the main attractions is the relative simplicity of the equipement.

Thou one thing I can imagine is increased development maybe in cams, making them more lightweight and easy to depower so that maybe we will get the locked in high-wind range of a cammed sail, but also the softness, depower, low end grunt and pumpability of a cammless sail. Maybe a kind of tuning system in the cam to change the stiffness of the foil, or even better a progressive stiffener so that as the sail fills out it gets stiffer giving out a fast stable sail which twists off nicely up the top when its windier, but when its lighter the sail is softer making it easier to pump.

Probably a heap to be done with fins as well. Not sure how much or what type of research is going into fins, but theres probably a lot to be gained in fin developments. Personally I'm gonna treat myself one of the maui ultra fins maybe with my tax return money, also AUD is getting better against USD, money to be saved. A lot of good riders are using them these days, e.g JP is using them on his twins. Seems like the guy building them has put a fair bit of research into them.

What I really need is an undingable fin.

Wet Willy
Wet Willy
TAS
2317 posts
TAS, 2317 posts
12 May 2009 1:24am
Boards? Pah! I think we should harness live dolphins!
swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
12 May 2009 1:46am
I'm ridin' on a dolphin, doing flips an ****, the dolphins splashing, gettin everyone all wet.



hahaha,
timford
timford
NSW
510 posts
NSW, 510 posts
12 May 2009 9:23am
two piece board to fit in boot of car
elmo
elmo
WA
8890 posts
WA, 8890 posts
12 May 2009 7:33am
Bluedog76 said...

The topic of adjustable sails (one sail different sizes) has sparked an, idea, maybe a bad one but an idea none the less.

We always look back at windsurifng gimmicks and concept....so what lies ahead, who can come up with the future for a boom, mast and a sail on a board.

Here is a few that may take some time:
1. Electronic push button Downhaul and outhaul that makes a cool winch motor sound.

2. Little solar powered properllers to get you on the plan in marginal conditions

3. Dynamic hull control (DHC) - a solid middle "channel" bit of board that is down when you need a bigger planning surface and up when you want less surface area.

4. Retractable winds that come out once you are going fast enough to lift you just above the water making use of the MIG effect (I don't know much about it of if that is the right spelling?)

5. Lighweight.solid.sail.concept.dot.north.com

6. An oar that you can't let go of to fend off sharks just in case you fall off your board with the propeller going.

Well, these are probably a load of ***t but what does the future hold?

How light can a board get????????


I'd be extremely happy with 15-20knots which doesn't occur around midnight
choco
choco
SA
4181 posts
SA, 4181 posts
12 May 2009 9:09am
timford said...

two piece board to fit in boot of car


already been done,don't remember who made them but they joined in the middle,here's a modern version of the concept.

http://www.bisect.com/
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14955 posts
QLD, 14955 posts
12 May 2009 3:25pm
i've given this one some thought and i reckon the future is

triangle course racing in the surf on sups.

now that would be a blast!

bonus points for wave sailing on the way back in.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
12 May 2009 4:33pm
swoosh said...

Bluedog76 said...


4. Retractable winds that come out once you are going fast enough to lift you just above the water making use of the MIG effect (I don't know much about it of if that is the right spelling?)

How light can a board get????????


I think you mean WIG, Wing In Ground effect.

As far as lightness goes, I don't think you will get too much lighter unless someone decides to build a hollow board with just stiffeners under certain bits. However there is a fair few hurdles to overcome in the development of something like that and really probably wouldn't be worth it in the end of the day. Thou don't really know if increasing the skin thickness and the addition of stiffeners would end up with a weight decrease that would be worth the increase in price.
There have been a few of those. Most recently AHD did one early this century. Airinside was another one. They are a bit lighter and they are easy to dry out when dinged. They make a drummy noise when sailing I'm told and they are more expensive to build.

I guess you could look at using honeycomb materials in the core, [that was quite common a while back] but I don't think they really don't get down to the low densities of some of the foams that the guys are using, however most of my research has been into higher strength cores, probably much more then required in a board. Plus it would wouldn't be as easy to shape as foam. Maybe you can use something like Aerogel (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel), not sure what the mechanical properties are like, but it sure is low density, probably around a 2kg weight saving on a 90L board. [WOW! That stuff is incredible. Because it shatters you would have to use a strong one. Shape it with an angle grinder :) I guess you would have to mould it wouldnt you. You may not need a structural skin or at least just a minimal one...]

One area for possible improvement is changing the manufacturing techniques and materials, using prepreg materials cured in autoclaves (don't think foam could handle the temp and pressure thou?), or maybe just room temp prepregs you will be able to have a lighter and stronger layup on the board. Don't think anyone uses this kinda stuff for windsurfing board yet do they?

Could also obviously change the layups and amount of reinforcements used in the boards, however I think some of the custom boards floating around these days are already pretty damn close to as light as you can go.


As far as the other stuff goes, I think most of the stuff adds too much complication to a sport which I think one of the main attractions is the relative simplicity of the equipment.

Thou one thing I can imagine is increased development maybe in cams, making them more lightweight and easy to depower so that maybe we will get the locked in high-wind range of a cammed sail, but also the softness, depower, low end grunt and pumpability of a cammless sail. Maybe a kind of tuning system in the cam to change the stiffness of the foil, or even better a progressive stiffener so that as the sail fills out it gets stiffer giving out a fast stable sail which twists off nicely up the top when its windier, but when its lighter the sail is softer making it easier to pump.
Sails could be quite a bit lighter. There are some very light sailcloths about already. They tend to be expensive but durable. Improvements in adhesives might save a bit too. There's a trend towards carbon battens too. They are expensive though.

Probably a heap to be done with fins as well. Not sure how much or what type of research is going into fins, but theres probably a lot to be gained in fin developments. Personally I'm gonna treat myself one of the maui ultra fins maybe with my tax return money, also AUD is getting better against USD, money to be saved. A lot of good riders are using them these days, e.g JP is using them on his twins. Seems like the guy building them has put a fair bit of research into them.

What I really need is an undingable fin.
I have long been an advocate for a folding fin system, one that can take a whack with dignity :) If you could do it with a simple clamping system you may be able to adjust the fin length 50mm or so too.




mathew
mathew
QLD
2167 posts
QLD, 2167 posts
12 May 2009 7:00pm
One area for possible improvement is changing the manufacturing techniques and materials, using prepreg materials cured in autoclaves (don't think foam could handle the temp and pressure thou?), or maybe just room temp prepregs you will be able to have a lighter and stronger layup on the board. Don't think anyone uses this kinda stuff for windsurfing board yet do they?


Depending on your definition of "autoclave" - this is how most boards have been built since about the mid 90's.

Thou one thing I can imagine is increased development maybe in cams, making them more lightweight and easy to depower so that maybe we will get the locked in high-wind range of a cammed sail, but also the softness, depower, low end grunt and pumpability of a cammless sail.


I'm not sure what you mean by this... a primary requirement of a cam is to *not* depower.

What I really need is an undingable fin.


Some people have tried steel, which results in some other weaker part of the fin being destroyed instead. There are other materials which some people are testing, which help to eliminate surface scratches - look for some of these in the future.
Bluedog76
Bluedog76
249 posts
249 posts
12 May 2009 6:13pm
swoosh said...

Bluedog76 said...


4. Retractable winds that come out once you are going fast enough to lift you just above the water making use of the MIG effect (I don't know much about it of if that is the right spelling?)

How light can a board get????????


I think you mean WIG, Wing In Ground effect.

As far as lightness goes, I don't think you will get too much lighter unless someone decides to build a hollow board with just stiffeners under certain bits. However there is a fair few hurdles to overcome in the development of something like that and really probably wouldn't be worth it in the end of the day. Thou don't really know if increasing the skin thickness and the addition of stiffeners would end up with a weight decrease that would be worth the increase in price.

I guess you could look at using honeycomb materials in the core, but I don't think they really don't get down to the low densities of some of the foams that the guys are using, however most of my research has been into higher strength cores, probably much more then required in a board. Plus it would wouldn't be as easy to shape as foam. Maybe you can use something like Aerogel (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel), not sure what the mechanical properties are like, but it sure is low density, probably around a 2kg weight saving on a 90L board.

One area for possible improvement is changing the manufacturing techniques and materials, using prepreg materials cured in autoclaves (don't think foam could handle the temp and pressure thou?), or maybe just room temp prepregs you will be able to have a lighter and stronger layup on the board. Don't think anyone uses this kinda stuff for windsurfing board yet do they?

Could also obviously change the layups and amount of reinforcements used in the boards, however I think some of the custom boards floating around these days are already pretty damn close to as light as you can go.


As far as the other stuff goes, I think most of the stuff adds too much complication to a sport which I think one of the main attractions is the relative simplicity of the equipement.

Thou one thing I can imagine is increased development maybe in cams, making them more lightweight and easy to depower so that maybe we will get the locked in high-wind range of a cammed sail, but also the softness, depower, low end grunt and pumpability of a cammless sail. Maybe a kind of tuning system in the cam to change the stiffness of the foil, or even better a progressive stiffener so that as the sail fills out it gets stiffer giving out a fast stable sail which twists off nicely up the top when its windier, but when its lighter the sail is softer making it easier to pump.

Probably a heap to be done with fins as well. Not sure how much or what type of research is going into fins, but theres probably a lot to be gained in fin developments. Personally I'm gonna treat myself one of the maui ultra fins maybe with my tax return money, also AUD is getting better against USD, money to be saved. A lot of good riders are using them these days, e.g JP is using them on his twins. Seems like the guy building them has put a fair bit of research into them.

What I really need is an undingable fin.




I once had an adjustable cam sail. A Gaastra MCS2x - two removeable adjustable cams - they had a nylon strap going through a push button type of cleat/clamp/thing so you you increase or decrease the camber induced in the sail. I really like that sail - very light.

and I think I did mean WIG (I was getting mixed up with Top Gun). I have seen in one of the recent windsurfing mags that Rush Randle has a wing on the top (in front of the mast) of his hydrofoiling board to use some WIG!!
P.C_simpson
P.C_simpson
WA
1492 posts
WA, 1492 posts
13 May 2009 12:57am
2 Piece board? Starboard have a 2 piece SUP in there new catalogue, a few guys have made 2 Piece kiteboards successfully, i'm sure there is a windsurfer out there too somewhere.

Hollow Boards, been done a few times, old D2 race boards where hollow, Mistral made hollow freestyle boards when Nick Baker was competing in freestyle and Nude Customs from W.A has built and sailed one in the surf alot...

Think gear will just get lighter as the materials get better and stronger, bigger wind ranges for gear so you don't need so much gear.

Prob go more toward something like kevlar in boards and lighter laminating techniques... maybe different lighter stronger cores..

The actual future of windsurfing all depends on us right now passing this great sport on to younger generations so the technology will continue to progress..
hoop
hoop
1979 posts
1979 posts
13 May 2009 8:09am
I didn't build a hollow board (nude). I've done a few super light ones but not hollow. I don't really like the idea of hollow boards. One development I think would be good would be to have cores as light as they are now but so they don't suck water and also have a bit of strength to them so you could have a lighter skin.
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
13 May 2009 10:20am
We should just be working to make it cheaper.

The cost of the sport is what puts a lot of people off.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
13 May 2009 2:41pm
Harness line markers on the outside of the boom. I know the technology will exist one day.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8335 posts
NSW, 8335 posts
14 May 2009 9:48pm
Portable wind ( the sailing kind..).You have a little button & push it & immediately get 20 -30 kts ( insert your favourite amount) consistent & from the right direction.When you are finished & see the someone you don't like just going out you push the button again & he gets left to swim in..
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
14 May 2009 10:38pm
evlPanda said...

Harness line markers on the outside of the boom. I know the technology will exist one day.


Haha, funny you mention that, I was using my 'hydrodynamix' boom today (which is a pretty good boom!) and could not get a decent look at the markers to set my lines to match! I've got a NP boom, and it isn't much better!

I agree with aus301 though...if it wasn't for the fact that I'm a wind junky that is addicted to this great sport...I wouldn't fork out the high costs...

Unfortunately for me, I'll just have to put up with the over-inflated costs of the setup until I decide to retire...

mmm, beer...

swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
14 May 2009 11:03pm
evlPanda said...

Harness line markers on the outside of the boom. I know the technology will exist one day.


my mauisails boom has them.
Bondalucci
Bondalucci
VIC
1580 posts
VIC, 1580 posts
15 May 2009 12:03am
aus301 said...

We should just be working to make it cheaper.

The cost of the sport is what puts a lot of people off.


I agree to an extent, but I reckon our sport has a very decent second hand market, especially here on the seabreeze buy and sell.

Factor in that once you are set up, the cost to go out and sail is pretty much free, then it compares very favourably to other sports, (compare $nowboarding, $kiing, even golf membership etc)

Also, how many of us are sitting on heaps of superseeded gear in our sheds that is still perfectly useable, but we think is not worth selling 2nd hand (mast extensions, bases, booms, sails etc) that could be donated to newbees to get them started?
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
15 May 2009 8:37am
Should be that kiting will give us a kick along like snowboarding resulted in skis being made to work properly.
Actually i bought a copy of January Windsurf magasine (usually do a Borders Browse)
where Starboard star Teisda speaks of a prototype foiler board consisting of twin fins with 4 foils that just "lifts up" in a non critical way.
Compare with Randle's Y shape fin and difficult manual adjustment of board tilt using cords from the boom, it sounds just too easy.
Maybe the top foils are surface skimmers mounted on the fins forward of the main foil?

Should be a prize for the first local lad to make it work.
oldie
oldie
VIC
356 posts
VIC, 356 posts
15 May 2009 8:38am
nb Starboard have the patent on a bidirectional sail. Haven't seen any yet.
Richiefish
Richiefish
QLD
5612 posts
QLD, 5612 posts
15 May 2009 8:46am

grab a slab
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8335 posts
NSW, 8335 posts
15 May 2009 8:49am
Love it Richie fish ! How much for a can!
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 May 2009 1:39pm
Richiefish said...


grab a slab


Put in on eBay. Your fortune is made.
theDoctor
theDoctor
NSW
5786 posts
NSW, 5786 posts
15 May 2009 1:43pm
The future of windsurfing

is..... kitesurfing

hahahaha
(sorry, had to get in and say it before surfingboye or anyone else)
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
15 May 2009 1:45pm
oldie said...

nb Starboard have the patent on a bidirectional sail. Haven't seen any yet.


What's that for, people who don't like to flip their rig? That could revolutionise the gybe. You could turn like a proa - do a lot of fin first reaches :). Maybe its for freestyle?
aus301
aus301
QLD
2039 posts
QLD, 2039 posts
15 May 2009 3:01pm
oldie said...

nb Starboard have the patent on a bidirectional sail. Haven't seen any yet.


It was done years ago...it was a big fan shape with two masts down either side of the sail.
jp747
jp747
1553 posts
1553 posts
15 May 2009 5:21pm
aus301 said...

We should just be working to make it cheaper.

The cost of the sport is what puts a lot of people off.


that's not to mention the manufacturers haven't started using kevlar with titanium stringers and the cost will really be offensive
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
15 May 2009 7:41pm
Bondalucci said...

once you are set up, the cost to go out and sail is pretty much free


I've heard that quote before from a mate who was told that (from a w/surf shop owner) when he bought his first kit...a board/sail/boom/mast etc...

"The wind is free"...until you realise that you need a sail for every degree of wind speed, not to mention speed vs wave, and then there's the boards....oh, the boards! $$$
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