As I'm in a vintage boards buying streak, people
usually gets also rid of old sails with them. They usually have holes or cuts. Are there any methods or tools to repair sails just to make them work, non caring about aesthetics nor resale appeal? Can my home
sewing machine and ability with it be of any help?
I mean definite repairs, not the clear tape stuff that I already know and use.
Thanks!
JP
Your home sewing machine will not be able to sew through the sail to replace a plastic panel, just the space between the foot and table will not be deep enough, maybe it can sew through just the fabric on the luff sleeve if that needs a repair, but even then it needs to be a heavy duty home sewing machine. And that assumes you can get the material into the needle area.
On the other hand, you can do it all by hand with the right needle and gloves, saw an Amazon movie about Sea Gypsy, a 120' long sail boat, a guy was hand sewing/repairing the sails for that boat.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Your home sewing machine will not be able to sew through the sail to replace a plastic panel, just the space between the foot and table will not be deep enough, maybe it can sew through just the fabric on the luff sleeve if that needs a repair, but even then it needs to be a heavy duty home sewing machine. And that assumes you can get the material into the needle area.
On the other hand, you can do it all by hand with the right needle and gloves, saw an Amazon movie about Sea Gypsy, a 120' long sail boat, a guy was hand sewing/repairing the sails for that boat.
I would not recommend hand sewing a sail, the only reason they do it on a big boat is firstly the fact that they are at sea and don't have access to a sail loft and secondly the fact that sails made with heavy canvas style materials were hand sewn many years ago.
If you want to do a good repair you should invest in a sail making machine. A Bernina 217 with a wider needle throw would be best. or a Pfaff 138 or 238. They need to have zig zag and preferably three step zig zag.
Yes, your home sewing machine can do the job, but with limitations. You won't have the power to do any reinforcement areas of the head, clew or foot but others minor repairs should be possible. Use a large needle and polyester bonded thread. Give it a go, what have you got to loose.
I'm saying this from experience, many years ago a group of us built our own sails using home sewing machines. They didn't have the high downhaul tensions used today so not overly reinforced.
yep it's possible, machine sew the thinner areas, hand sew the thicker bits.
Unless you have oodles of money to spare, or can find a good second hand one cheap, an industrial sewing machine, just for ancient sail repair, is way over spend. It would be more economical to buy new sails.
For the cost of the machine needed (even secondhand) you could by some new sails.
I'm in awe of your perseverance with some of this old stuff but you might need to get some newer gear
For old dacron triangle sails, and sometimes newer ones, you can glue a patch on reasonably successfully.
Yes! Seen the Pfaff models between 200 and 700 euro secondhand. I think the China based textile Industry is shrinking the market for those machines here, but even at those prices, spending 300 euro to fix a 30 euro sail is overkill. Unless I buy lots of sails and break them all:-)
Another question is where do you buy the fabrics or panel materials?
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
For the cost of the machine needed (even secondhand) you could by some new sails.
I'm in awe of your perseverance with some of this old stuff but you might need to get some newer gear
For old dacron triangle sails, and sometimes newer ones, you can glue a patch on reasonably successfully.
Haha! I have a few new sails but I really feel sad about old ones with small defects that could be working again or still. Being moved by the wind is something I'm really marvelled at, forever, so whenever I see a broken sail I have some nostalgia about a clever machine being not profitable anymore. Sails are magic devices, I like to be moved by something that was created 20 or 30 years ago with not so much performance decrease.
I did see a while ago at spotlight a extra heavy duty aluminium frame sewing machine on sale for $329 if only my wife wasn't with me I would have bought it & hid it in my shed .
On clear plastic panels clear sail repair tape, or 2" wide clear Gorilla tape works, and for seam areas the 2" wide silver or black Gorilla tape works and is very durable. Just clean all surfaces with isopropanol, and then dry completely before applying the tape. Two roles of tape cost maybe $12 and can repair dozens of sails.
Even if you consider the cost of a used industrial sewing machine to be too much, you could probably recoup your costs by making custom board bags. My wife made me a board bag ten years ago. I still use it.
You can also make some change by making custom foil covers or fin covers.
Tape will work well for most tears (see vid below). When the sail is fried, then you need to start patching or changing entire panels.
Need to remove battens and take good care to match existing panel size with near exact precision.
I like the idea of using temporary tape to align the two parts. It looks like he is using Gorilla clear tape, it works great on x-ply but not on the fabric areas, I use Gorilla duck tape if I have to go over fabric and seams.
I've used a technique where tears in mono hit up against fabric which takes ages to do but works very well. Some of my repairs are very big, spanning whole panels and I have sails I've repaired this way still going strong 5yrs plus later.
I use sticky back sail tape along to torn mono edge, and fold it back over to the other side. It leaves a little extra tab or sticky back folded upon itself and also allows me to hand stitch the mono, both through the mono edge and also that extra tab.
I use braided fishing line for stitching.
Its amazingly strong and allows me to get away with much less stitching.
You can hand stitch using a regular needle, but you must uses special looping locking to stop the stitches sliding around and causing the sail to get folds.
Much better is to sew with a sewing machine needle, using that same technique as a machine.
What this means is you have an under and an over thread. The needle passes a loop of the over thread through the sail, the under thread is then passed through the loop and the needle is pulled back. Each stitch acts like a little press stud , firmly pushing the sail cloth together. Its very hard to get a similar , no slip effect with regular hand stitching. You will need pliers to push the needle through and sometimes a fine drill where there are multiple layers.
I even fixed an 11m sail this way after a mast snapped in the heat and tore much of the luff away from the sail.
Its very slow though...
It avoids having to unstitch the whole sail for a proper repair, but takes an hour a day for about a week to do a big repair.
I'm guessing this clear Gorilla tape or sail tape would also be good for reinforcement?
I've got a couple of old mono sails which haven't torn yet, and I'm wondering if I took take preventative action.
Select to expand quoteWet Willy said..
I'm guessing this clear Gorilla tape or sail tape would also be good for reinforcement?
I've got a couple of old mono sails which haven't torn yet, and I'm wondering if I took take preventative action.
Yeah, clear Gorilla tape is good for reinforcing old film, light weight and UV resistant, and hard to see. I even reinforce vertical seams at the bottom panel at the sail foot with black Gorilla duck tape, since that is where I tend to hit the sail when crashing while foiling.
Select to expand quoteHeavy1 said..
I've used a technique where tears in mono hit up against fabric which takes ages to do but works very well. Some of my repairs are very big, spanning whole panels and I have sails I've repaired this way still going strong 5yrs plus later.
I use sticky back sail tape along to torn mono edge, and fold it back over to the other side. It leaves a little extra tab or sticky back folded upon itself and also allows me to hand stitch the mono, both through the mono edge and also that extra tab.
I use braided fishing line for stitching.
Its amazingly strong and allows me to get away with much less stitching.
You can hand stitch using a regular needle, but you must uses special looping locking to stop the stitches sliding around and causing the sail to get folds.
Much better is to sew with a sewing machine needle, using that same technique as a machine.
What this means is you have an under and an over thread. The needle passes a loop of the over thread through the sail, the under thread is then passed through the loop and the needle is pulled back. Each stitch acts like a little press stud , firmly pushing the sail cloth together. Its very hard to get a similar , no slip effect with regular hand stitching. You will need pliers to push the needle through and sometimes a fine drill where there are multiple layers.
I even fixed an 11m sail this way after a mast snapped in the heat and tore much of the luff away from the sail.
Its very slow though...
It avoids having to unstitch the whole sail for a proper repair, but takes an hour a day for about a week to do a big repair.
I love the way you do this. I think it can even compete with the time and dedication I'm having now manually welding a polyethylene kayak with a crack 1,5 meters long. I need to get those sturdy machine needles because I don't have any at hand. Hoy do you deploy the second line below? It is just a straight one that you "trap" with each new loop?
Thanks!
Select to expand quoteJPBARNA said..
Yes! Seen the Pfaff models between 200 and 700 euro secondhand. I think the China based textile Industry is shrinking the market for those machines here, but even at those prices, spending 300 euro to fix a 30 euro sail is overkill. Unless I buy lots of sails and break them all:-)
It really depends on how much you sail, and how many windsurfing friends you have. Typical sails last about 100 sessions before the first panel needs to be replaced (or very heavily taped). Replacing a panel or two can double or triple the life of the sail, but eventually, you may reach the point where multiple panels break within a few sessions.
Of course, severe crashes can accelerate the need for sewing repairs a lot. When a crash leads to multiple panels ripping, or monofilm getting ripped out of the seams, taping may not be able to put things together again.
My wife got a used machine at roughly the cost you describe. She probably repairs a couple of our sails and wings a year, with a few more repairs by others sometimes when we are traveling. She has also repaired sails for many of our windsurfing friends, so the machine has definitely paid for itself.
Select to expand quoteJPBARNA said..Heavy1 said..
I've used a technique where tears in mono hit up against fabric which takes ages to do but works very well. Some of my repairs are very big, spanning whole panels and I have sails I've repaired this way still going strong 5yrs plus later.
I use sticky back sail tape along to torn mono edge, and fold it back over to the other side. It leaves a little extra tab or sticky back folded upon itself and also allows me to hand stitch the mono, both through the mono edge and also that extra tab.
I use braided fishing line for stitching.
Its amazingly strong and allows me to get away with much less stitching.
You can hand stitch using a regular needle, but you must uses special looping locking to stop the stitches sliding around and causing the sail to get folds.
Much better is to sew with a sewing machine needle, using that same technique as a machine.
What this means is you have an under and an over thread. The needle passes a loop of the over thread through the sail, the under thread is then passed through the loop and the needle is pulled back. Each stitch acts like a little press stud , firmly pushing the sail cloth together. Its very hard to get a similar , no slip effect with regular hand stitching. You will need pliers to push the needle through and sometimes a fine drill where there are multiple layers.
I even fixed an 11m sail this way after a mast snapped in the heat and tore much of the luff away from the sail.
Its very slow though...
It avoids having to unstitch the whole sail for a proper repair, but takes an hour a day for about a week to do a big repair.
I love the way you do this. I think it can even compete with the time and dedication I'm having now manually welding a polyethylene kayak with a crack 1,5 meters long. I need to get those sturdy machine needles because I don't have any at hand. Hoy do you deploy the second line below? It is just a straight one that you "trap" with each new loop?
Thanks!
It sounds like the stitching that a sewing awl kit will give, heavy duty needles and thread, I got mine from Harbor Tools and Freight in the US.
Select to expand quoteJPBARNA said..Heavy1 said..
I've used a technique where tears in mono hit up against fabric which takes ages to do but works very well. Some of my repairs are very big, spanning whole panels and I have sails I've repaired this way still going strong 5yrs plus later.
I use sticky back sail tape along to torn mono edge, and fold it back over to the other side. It leaves a little extra tab or sticky back folded upon itself and also allows me to hand stitch the mono, both through the mono edge and also that extra tab.
I use braided fishing line for stitching.
Its amazingly strong and allows me to get away with much less stitching.
You can hand stitch using a regular needle, but you must uses special looping locking to stop the stitches sliding around and causing the sail to get folds.
Much better is to sew with a sewing machine needle, using that same technique as a machine.
What this means is you have an under and an over thread. The needle passes a loop of the over thread through the sail, the under thread is then passed through the loop and the needle is pulled back. Each stitch acts like a little press stud , firmly pushing the sail cloth together. Its very hard to get a similar , no slip effect with regular hand stitching. You will need pliers to push the needle through and sometimes a fine drill where there are multiple layers.
I even fixed an 11m sail this way after a mast snapped in the heat and tore much of the luff away from the sail.
Its very slow though...
It avoids having to unstitch the whole sail for a proper repair, but takes an hour a day for about a week to do a big repair.
I love the way you do this. I think it can even compete with the time and dedication I'm having now manually welding a polyethylene kayak with a crack 1,5 meters long. I need to get those sturdy machine needles because I don't have any at hand. Hoy do you deploy the second line below? It is just a straight one that you "trap" with each new loop?
Thanks!
Yes the bottom thread just goes straight through. You need to put it through the right side of the loop , or you trap the needle behind the stitch. The top and bottom thread can be started from a long thread starting with a knot in the middle, one end above the sail, one end below.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..JPBARNA said..Heavy1 said..
I've used a technique where tears in mono hit up against fabric which takes ages to do but works very well. Some of my repairs are very big, spanning whole panels and I have sails I've repaired this way still going strong 5yrs plus later.
I use sticky back sail tape along to torn mono edge, and fold it back over to the other side. It leaves a little extra tab or sticky back folded upon itself and also allows me to hand stitch the mono, both through the mono edge and also that extra tab.
I use braided fishing line for stitching.
Its amazingly strong and allows me to get away with much less stitching.
You can hand stitch using a regular needle, but you must uses special looping locking to stop the stitches sliding around and causing the sail to get folds.
Much better is to sew with a sewing machine needle, using that same technique as a machine.
What this means is you have an under and an over thread. The needle passes a loop of the over thread through the sail, the under thread is then passed through the loop and the needle is pulled back. Each stitch acts like a little press stud , firmly pushing the sail cloth together. Its very hard to get a similar , no slip effect with regular hand stitching. You will need pliers to push the needle through and sometimes a fine drill where there are multiple layers.
I even fixed an 11m sail this way after a mast snapped in the heat and tore much of the luff away from the sail.
Its very slow though...
It avoids having to unstitch the whole sail for a proper repair, but takes an hour a day for about a week to do a big repair.
I love the way you do this. I think it can even compete with the time and dedication I'm having now manually welding a polyethylene kayak with a crack 1,5 meters long. I need to get those sturdy machine needles because I don't have any at hand. Hoy do you deploy the second line below? It is just a straight one that you "trap" with each new loop?
Thanks!
It sounds like the stitching that a sewing awl kit will give, heavy duty needles and thread, I got mine from Harbor Tools and Freight in the US.
Yes you are right. I just had trouble sourcing the kit and found the heavy duty machine needles worked fine for me. The kit may be quicker.
