Sail clew hitting the water and footstraps

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GrumpySmurf
GrumpySmurf
WA
230 posts
WA, 230 posts
11 Nov 2016 1:18pm
General question as I have this problem with a few combo. Specifically, I'm using a Reflex 2 7.0 on a 2014 isonic 107 with Enigma 460 mast and enigma boom, 28in harness. I'm short at 163cm and the mast track was 1cm forward of center and tried various boom height. The extension had between 0-2cm of rope between the cleats.

Problem is I seem to be "closing-the-gap" too much and the clew hits water. I also gets the sail foot stuck on the foot straps.

What am I doing wrong?
John340
John340
QLD
3412 posts
QLD, 3412 posts
11 Nov 2016 3:43pm
Think of the triangle created by the mast base, the connection of the boom to the mast and the clew of the sail. If the clew of the sail is dragging in the water then your options are:
1. Move your mast base back or
2. Move your foot-straps forward or
3. Lower your boom attachment or
4. Raise the position of your harness hook
5. Lengthen you harness lines

All the above have the effect of rotating the mast more upright in the vertical plane along the centre line of the board, which then increases the height of the clew in relation to the water. Work with one parameter at a time and make small adjustments and gauge the effect when fully powered up and locked in position on a slightly broad reach. You will find different optimum combinations of the above for each sail in different conditions (i.e. underpowered, comfortable or overpowered). Take note of what works and use when the next the conditions apply.

Haggar
Haggar
QLD
1670 posts
QLD, 1670 posts
11 Nov 2016 4:30pm
John340 said...
Think of the triangle created by the mast base, the connection of the boom to the mast and the clew of the sail. If the clew of the sail is dragging in the water then your options are:
1. Move your mast base back or
2. Move your foot-straps forward or
3. Lower your boom attachment or
4. Raise the position of your harness hook
5. Lengthen you harness lines

All the above have the effect of rotating the mast more upright in the vertical plane along the centre line of the board, which then increases the height of the clew in relation to the water. Work with one parameter at a time and make small adjustments and gauge the effect when fully powered up and locked in position on a slightly broad reach. You will find different optimum combinations of the above for each sail in different conditions (i.e. underpowered, comfortable or overpowered). Take note of what works and use when the next the conditions apply.




+ 1 John very well explained
Sparky
Sparky
WA
1122 posts
WA, 1122 posts
11 Nov 2016 2:52pm
I've had that feeling before, it gives you no room to crank more power on. I agree with above, especially mast track back a bit. i think it is also a sign of maybe not having enough fin. I happily use a fairly gutsy 40cm fin on my 2014 isonic. What are you using?
TRIMMER
TRIMMER
QLD
217 posts
QLD, 217 posts
11 Nov 2016 5:31pm
Don't you mean raise the boom?
kato
kato
VIC
3527 posts
VIC, 3527 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:20pm
John340 said...
Think of the triangle created by the mast base, the connection of the boom to the mast and the clew of the sail. If the clew of the sail is dragging in the water then your options are:
1. Move your mast base back or
2. Move your foot-straps forward or
3. Lower your boom attachment or
4. Raise the position of your harness hook
5. Lengthen you harness lines

All the above have the effect of rotating the mast more upright in the vertical plane along the centre line of the board, which then increases the height of the clew in relation to the water. Work with one parameter at a time and make small adjustments and gauge the effect when fully powered up and locked in position on a slightly broad reach. You will find different optimum combinations of the above for each sail in different conditions (i.e. underpowered, comfortable or overpowered). Take note of what works and use when the next the conditions apply.



+2
Lower boom is right too
wantmorewind
wantmorewind
VIC
115 posts
VIC, 115 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:30pm
,Its a Severne thing, try a bigger fin or sail size, happens when your under done.. Reflex's have a massive wind range, I also get this every now and then I find it is because I should have rigged bigger.
TRIMMER
TRIMMER
QLD
217 posts
QLD, 217 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:01pm
Nah your all wrong .raising the boom lifts the clew when your hooked in and extend your lines.
If you don't ext lines yes it makes it worse.
I thought you guys know your stuff.
I sail severn
Mike105
Mike105
59 posts
59 posts
11 Nov 2016 5:09pm
Have you got two clew eyelets? I'm about your height and used to use the lower eyelet and it felt like I was holding the clew end of the boom up when not fully powered. Changed to top eyelet and haven't looked back.
TRIMMER
TRIMMER
QLD
217 posts
QLD, 217 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:16pm
Im 190cm or 6ft3 always use top clew cleat unless really over powered
Cocky2
Cocky2
QLD
191 posts
QLD, 191 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:44pm
Is the 7 R2 recommend for 430 mast? Tried the 7 R5 on 460 and was not good.
My experience has to been raise the boom. Normally have the boom midpoint on all serverne and not changed for me with R3,R4,R5,R6.
Pull downhaul down to rollers no spare rope.
I have only used serverne and had not the issue you discribe. I am 172 cm and use 28inch harness lines. Tried 26 and to short. 30 were to long. Harness hook low is better with seat harness.
Only ever use the top clew.
You need to try different settings as every person has a different technique.
Paddles B'mere
Paddles B'mere
QLD
3586 posts
QLD, 3586 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:53pm



Haggar
Haggar
QLD
1670 posts
QLD, 1670 posts
11 Nov 2016 8:11pm
TRIMMER said..
Nah your all wrong .raising the boom lifts the clew when your hooked in and extend your lines.
If you don't ext lines yes it makes it worse.
I thought you guys know your stuff.
I sail severn


Actually Trimmer I agree with you, raising your boom has the same effect as moving your mast base back.
JonE
JonE
VIC
598 posts
VIC, 598 posts
11 Nov 2016 9:24pm
Just thinking outside the box, too much downhaul? Collapsing the top of your sail => no forward drive in the top half of the sail to pull the rig forwards....?
Imax1
Imax1
QLD
4938 posts
QLD, 4938 posts
11 Nov 2016 8:28pm
^^^^^^
could be onto something
col5555
col5555
WA
386 posts
WA, 386 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:25pm
Try a bigger fin
snides8
snides8
WA
1731 posts
WA, 1731 posts
11 Nov 2016 7:40pm
what wind strength are using this set up in?
if your constantly dragging the foot over the straps your probably under powered..use a bigger rag
moving the mast step back as well will help as it stands the rig up.
Subsonic
Subsonic
WA
3414 posts
WA, 3414 posts
11 Nov 2016 8:06pm
I've found this too, all of the above is completely relevant to the situation, the two things that sort the situation for me I've found are a: don't sail underpowered, and b: try and hold a more upright stance (which ends up letting the rig stand more upright as well).
petermac33
petermac33
WA
6415 posts
WA, 6415 posts
12 Nov 2016 12:32am
The problem is sail makers cut the foot too low!

I loved my 6.3m KA - but the foot was simply cut too low for me.

Most of the other sail models are cut too low - for me anyway.

Use Maui race sails - welcome to try mine. The foot is cut higher by a decent amount.

Using the higher clew ring can help too. I only use the middle of the mast track.

They needed to raise the foot of modern slalom sails with most modern slalom boards now having recessed decks.
Boombuster
Boombuster
QLD
585 posts
QLD, 585 posts
12 Nov 2016 6:47am
I have 2016 KAs when I first got them I found they would drag or hit the water so I soon learnt too rig them with extra extension so the down-haul pullies were not together as with older style sails which I use to always have touching this immediately fixed the problem and also leveled out the bottom of the sail with the bottom of the extension. Having said I rig my sails with a gap between pullies I find this is around luff spec's but I have been experimenting with the amount of down haul for lighter or stronger winds.
sailquik
sailquik
VIC
6171 posts
VIC, 6171 posts
13 Nov 2016 11:43pm
JonE said..
Just thinking outside the box, too much downhaul? Collapsing the top of your sail => no forward drive in the top half of the sail to pull the rig forwards....?


That would be my guess as the the likely culprit as well.

Also: First thing is move your mast base back!

evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
14 Nov 2016 2:36pm
There is probably too much water causing it to hit your sail clew. Sail at low tide instead.
jusavina
jusavina
QLD
1505 posts
QLD, 1505 posts
14 Nov 2016 1:59pm
JonE said..
Just thinking outside the box, too much downhaul? Collapsing the top of your sail => no forward drive in the top half of the sail to pull the rig forwards....?


^^^ What I was going to say.
pweedas
pweedas
WA
4642 posts
WA, 4642 posts
14 Nov 2016 3:34pm
evlPanda said..
There is probably too much water causing it to hit your sail clew. Sail at low tide instead.


Yes. It's almost certainly due to dangerous climate change causing rising sea levels.

You can also see evidence of this at the start of every season by the way the board sits lower in the water.

I'm pretty sure that's it.

We'll all be rooned.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8338 posts
NSW, 8338 posts
15 Nov 2016 1:01pm
evlPanda said..
There is probably too much water causing it to hit your sail clew. Sail at low tide instead.



Bad luck if where you sail isn't tidal...
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
17 Nov 2016 5:57pm
sboardcrazy said..

evlPanda said..
There is probably too much water causing it to hit your sail clew. Sail at low tide instead.



Bad luck if where you sail isn't tidal...



Sail closer to the beach where it is shallower and there is less water.
Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
17 Nov 2016 7:48pm
Or else just take a bucket and fill it up. When you are finished sailing, you can pour it back in.
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