Railbite and spin-out

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flatout
flatout
85 posts
85 posts
14 Dec 2011 12:20am
Hi

I need some advise.
The gear: 105l tabou rocket, 7m code red, mfc rc-2 36 fin. outboard straps and seat harness.
When i reach 25.5knots I sometimes spin out. It is always at this exact speed +- 0.5 knots

If i don't spin-out the leeward rail starts to bite into the water at +28knots.

Do you have any suggestions to what could be wrong?

Thanks
Stuthepirate
Stuthepirate
SA
3591 posts
SA, 3591 posts
14 Dec 2011 4:56am
Apologies for topic bombing, but Princess Mary is Hot as!
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
14 Dec 2011 2:30am
flatout said...

Hi

I need some advise.
The gear: 105l tabou rocket, 7m code red, mfc rc-2 36 fin. outboard straps and seat harness.
When i reach 25.5knots I sometimes spin out. It is always at this exact speed +- 0.5 knots

If i don't spin-out the leeward rail starts to bite into the water at +28knots.

Do you have any suggestions to what could be wrong?

Thanks


Maybe because you are staring at the GPS when it gets to around 25 knots?

Bit like turning round because you think people are looking at you - and they look at you because you turned round?

flatout
flatout
85 posts
85 posts
14 Dec 2011 6:48am
Yeah, our crown prince really shot the parrot on that one! (good translated danish expression)

I don't think i am doing anything to cause the problems. I don't look at my gps while sailing, but topspeed after a spinout always say's 25-26. and i feel the rail bite a bit before i reach top speed on 30knot runs

I just lock in, and hang on. So i'm thinking it's the fin, but the size should be right. Could it be a weird situation where 25knot doesn't produce enough grip and 28knots produces too much lift?

Should i rake the fin back a couple of degrees? i'm guessing that the grip will not change but the lift will decrease.
elmo
elmo
WA
8890 posts
WA, 8890 posts
14 Dec 2011 7:03am
Spin out could be caused by to much back hand pressure, try shifting your harness lines a touch further back.

Rail grab possibly shift your boom up a bit or shift your mast foot back a bit to free up the front of the board.

also try pointing the front foot and taking a bit of weight of the back foot which should help the board trim flatter.

If you have a friend with a go pro see if you can borrow it to get some video of you and the board to see what is going on
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
14 Dec 2011 9:24am
Something that's stuck with me from a Peter Hart video:

He asks the two other experts if they think they can spin out on demand. They say "Sure, no problem". So off they go.

Peter says to the camera "I bet they can't"...

And so it goes. They come screaming back towards the camera, and at the appointed place push really hard against the fin, and all that happens is they rocket off upwind instead of spinning out.


Perhaps what's happening is that at that speed your fin and board are starting to fly and 'rail up'. This is normal, and part of the fun. Lean out more, keep the board trimmed flat, and accelerate to warp 9!!
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23649 posts
WA, 23649 posts
14 Dec 2011 9:38am
Just a thought based partly on Nebb's reply
as we know the fin may generate a lot of lift at higher speeds and cause the railing up, so to compensate it requires heel pressure/toes up.
However at other times this may cause spinout due to loading it up too much - so are you perhaps going too much heel pressure / fin loading too early, causing spinout...... and then when you get up to speed you have the spinout experience in your mind so are not giving it enough which causes the railing up?

doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
14 Dec 2011 9:39am
Stuthepirate said...

Apologies for topic bombing, but Princess Mary is Hot as!


+1
redsurfbus
redsurfbus
304 posts
304 posts
14 Dec 2011 10:16am
My starboard kode 112l used to do this, nearly everytime at 28knots, 100-110 deg off the wind....basically just as I was starting to follow the gust and bear off.

I tried a different fin from the stock Drake 36cm freeslalom swift and it has never since span out.......

Sometimes it could be a bad fin/board combo coupled with something in your/our technique. That was my conclusion. I even tried sanding all the paint off the fin. smoothing it. polishing it......then traded it in for a real fin.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
14 Dec 2011 3:17pm
Mine does it too...normally when I hit 40kts. Then I wake up (smiling) & get out of bed.
Subsonic
Subsonic
WA
3413 posts
WA, 3413 posts
14 Dec 2011 8:41pm
Stuthepirate said...

Apologies for topic bombing, but Princess Mary is Hot as!


+1
Geez you really were drunk weren't you!?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12873 posts
WA, 12873 posts
14 Dec 2011 8:51pm
Put the fin across your knee and try to bend it. How flexi is it?
I have a 34cm fin that is very flexi and it produces much the same symptoms you describe. I think the flex gives the fin vertical lift, this pushes up behind you forcing the leeward rail down. This can also lift the windward rail allowing air to get to the fin causing spin out.
The other possibility is a foil thick at the front, this gives good low wind performance but can make to much lift at speed, and a very strong low pressure area near the leading edge, this can cause cavitation at speed.
paddymac
paddymac
WA
943 posts
WA, 943 posts
14 Dec 2011 9:13pm
I had four MFC fins - 44 and 40 RC and 36 and 32 SL. The 36SL never worked for me, often spinning out. The others were all good. Sometimes I think you can get a lemon just like with cars.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12873 posts
WA, 12873 posts
15 Dec 2011 8:46pm
whoever red thumbed my last post, if you don't believe how much a fin can bend, have a look at darrylg's post on the 2nd page of "flying the fin", in the GPS & speed sailing forum.

Some sailors like this effect, others don't. It may depend on skill level, rider weight, board set up etc, I just know I don't like it.
flatout
flatout
85 posts
85 posts
16 Dec 2011 8:26pm
thank you very much... good insights, now i've got something to be aware of next time i go out! Maybe i need to get a "real" fin
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12873 posts
WA, 12873 posts
16 Dec 2011 10:18pm
think I've figured out how to copy the picture over.



YES!!!!

There's hope for this old bugger yet.

Look at all that weight on the windward rail, and see all the spray from the leeward rail.
That fin is working!
Stuthepirate
Stuthepirate
SA
3591 posts
SA, 3591 posts
17 Dec 2011 12:56am
Subsonic said...

Stuthepirate said...

Apologies for topic bombing, but Princess Mary is Hot as!


+1
Geez you really were drunk weren't you!?


Yep I think i need to get a breathalizer to access my computer
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