If you watch the top sailors they approach the mark/buoy very high.

This will help to dump the power/wind from the sail.

That is,if you also pull the back-hand in radically with all your strength,while at the same time pushing really hard with front hand.

Forget about laying it down,just concentrate on above 3 techniques.

And 4th technique is use a smaller sail.

30 knots with a 5.7m and 82kg? That sounds challenging to me, even if it were smooth water, and not choppy.

One strange thing about gybing, at least for me, is that you lose a fair bit of that power as you bear away from the wind. It feels scary initially, but bearing away calms things down a bit and is more comfortable than not bearing away.

Isn't a lay-down gybe just what you are doing with the sail. The footwork is still step-gybe or strap-to-strap, but you are oversheeting the sail and laying it down to make it a lay-down gybe.

I would suggest going with the wind, to lose some of that power, and then attempting the gybe.

what works for me: (I step, but occasionally strap-to-strap in the heavy stuff, it's not preconceived, just what works at the time). i weigh 76kegs, and was out in a very lumpy 30+kt a week ago with a 6m free race and 100ltr board. however my kit is excellent at handling bumps and I've been sailing a looong time, so although I was not exactly comfortable, i was in control, which is important. you must be ready to gybe, it's a kind of zen moment - and you can't enter with confidence if you're having trouble just going in a straight line.

1. time the approach carefully. even in nasty chop, flat spots can be found in between 'sets'. find them, and let the rail bite before really loading the inside rail. pressure should be gradually increased thru the first half of the turn, not all at once

2. I use the sail to pull me inboard into a strong gybing position (hips should always be over the centre line, outside heel lifted off the board). get this right and gybing becomes a *lot* easier, plus mast foot pressure loads the nose of the the board to allow it to slice thru chop and keep up speed. personally I do this by letting the sail fall to the inside (and slightly forward) and my body will follow it in. this naturally extends my front arm and kinks the rear and without really trying - voila! i've depowered the sail. score!

3. despite my best intentions, it doesn't always go to plan, so real deep knees in the turn lets me recover if/when the board hits a big piece of chop and tries to buck me off.

4. on rig flip anticipate the power: I get low to control the surge that is certain in heavy conditions.

in any conditions gybing's a lot to get right compressed into a handful of seconds, and technique is most important in heavy conditions. but we have an important ally: speed. it's amazing how much I can get away with if I just come in hard and fast.

petermac33 said...
If you watch the top sailors they approach the mark/buoy very high.

This will help to dump the power/wind from the sail.

That is,if you also pull the back-hand in radically with all your strength,while at the same time pushing really hard with front hand.

Forget about laying it down,just concentrate on above 3 techniques.

And 4th technique is use a smaller sail.

Thanks peter
mac. I was discussing this exactly matter with my son that is much more capable and he point exactly to the same VERY IMPORTANT POINTS:
That is,if you also pull the back-hand in radically with all your strength,while at the same time pushing really hard with front hand.

jsnfok said...
when you are seriously overpowered, bearing away just increases your speed really you wanna go hard and sheet it, bend your ankles and knees through the turn

LOOK through the turn it will help you to keep carving around

most sailers start good then get stuck when it comes to completing the carve and flipping the rig

On your photo you have exact example what I did try today... but at specific wind speed is just seems impossible to press this sail down ... for lay down gybe....when the water is all white around..

but when discussing that matter with my son that is much more capable the same motive appears .......
naturally extends my front arm and kinks the rear and without really trying - voila! i've depowered the sail. score!

Carantoc said...

Macroscien said...

How to jibe when you are seriously overpowered ( on the choppy water)?
I need your advice.

Why do you want to sail seriously overpowered ?

Even the 10,000 times world champion and the fastest person to ever sail a windsurfer say it is about control not about power.

Why not just sail seriously in control ??

A lot of the time you can't not sail overpowered if your a lightweight in strong winds. Maybe that's the smallest gear he has?
I seem to spend most of my time overpowered once it hits 25kts +.

Pretty sure you could pick-up a smaller sail for significantly less than 10,000 batteries, a new electric outboard and the rest of the gubbins for a non-functioning solar powered catamaran, a one man helicopter garden ornament or a TIG welder (with MIG function).

Macroscien said...

How to jibe when you are seriously overpowered ( on the choppy water)?
I need your advice.
I thought that I have this scenario tested on the recent stormy weather but it seems that is not that easy yet.

Here is that situation . Wind as per graph ( 30 + knt ?) 5.7m2 and 92L JP, me 82 kg, quite a big chop.



Just freshly reviewed Alwarez Youtube video with 8 different jibes and plenty of time today I did try my best in practising jibbing.
Since I am moderate jibing begginer I am open for critics and advice as well.
How to jibe?
lay down jibe or step gybe ? ( I did try lay down the sail but it seem almost impossible to release that extreme power from sail )
try to loose some speed or get into jibe at full speed ?
commit to the gybe 100 % or keep relaxed and slow down?
I did test all possible scenarios with a bit miserable results if comnited too much then rail dig in into water, if lay down - then impossible to release power, if relaxed then ok but looks awfully

Firstly the wind was nothing like the graph shows. It hit maybe 26 at best but the problem was the holes in it which the graph doesn't show. Gusty is ok so long as there is some power in the lulls but it would have been lucky to be 10 knots in the lulls then 3 seconds later it would hit 26 then back to 10 again. It was hopeless hence why i packed up and left after less than 2 hours. I was hoping it would fill in but it got worse.
It was not the right conditions to be trying new stuff because it is hard to tell whether it is technique or extremely poor conditions when you fail a jibe. The last 2 days have been that patchy around here it crazy. I have been getting a good percentage of my jibes lately but yesterday and the day before made them VERY difficult to pull off. I got a few but in the end it was so unpredictable i just got the sh!ts with it and tacked instead. The direction of the swell and tide going with the wind, which takes away some of your power when you enter the jibe, made them hard to do. Guys that are much better than you and i would have been ok but it wasn't ideal so i recon wait until the conditions are more suitable then try the new stuff i think stick with what you know how to do in conditions like that.

Thr hardest part of gybing in strong winds in the JP slalom is getting the back foot out and into the opisite strap, on these boards your back foot really controlls the the load on the fin that keeps it stable.

In rough conditions you need to bear away and pick a flat section thru a trough and get the foot onto the opisite pad so yout foot is near the strap, pushing down on the edge to initiate the gybe,

At this point your body position should be bent knees and leaning into the gybe, this will keep the tail from sinking and stop the board from losing speed.

Saill wise at the same time pull in back hand push out front hand as mentioned above. what this does is puts a lot of downward pressure onto the board and helps keep the board from bouncing - lets you punch thru the chop rather than bounce over it.

As you rotatate slowly sheet out to maintian pressure in the sail. if you keep the sail too close to you as you rotate you will have a lot harder time when it comes to the flip.

Personally in strong winds i like to flip the sail really early. As you hit about 90 degree off the wind i release and and reaquire the sail on the opposite side before the board turns another 45 degrees. Ideally you want to be sheeting in while still on the reach and keeping speed up. By maintaining speed the apparant wind is very low and makes it A Lot easier to power it up for the exit.

As you sheeting in again you can just rotate your foot into the strap at this point you have both feet in straps and have the leverage you need to pull the sail into position. As soon as you feel comfortable pull youy back foot into the back strap and accelerate!

The biggest mistake most ppl do when learning is lack of commitment. almost never bend the knees enuf and lean forward into the gybe. Learning it is hard becase it really feels like you are going to get catapulted byt this only really happens because you sont commit enuf and the board slows down.
Simply put less speed = more apparent wind = harder to control.

Roar said...
Thr hardest part of gybing in strong winds in the JP slalom is getting the back foot out and into the opposite strap,.

I'll agree with that, getting the back foot out and into a reasonable position on the leeward rail is the first difficult task. With the board bouncing around taking a foot out of the back strap is not something you look forward to. If this part does go OK the rest is easy....relatively.

Macroscien asked the question, he's an ideas man, so here goes, here's an idea. A travelling back strap. Travellers aren't new, yachties use them for all sorts of things.

So an " X " shaped track would be recessed into the deck. A footstrap on a small turntable can travel around the rear deck on a course that takes in the two standard back strap positions and the two back foot gybing positions.

So from normal starboard sailing position a slight lift of the heel would unlock the turntable and allow you to foot-slide the back footstrap on its little turntable diagonally across the deck and lock into the perfect gybing position on the port rail. Imagine that! No over-stepping the mark, no short-stepping the mark, no skating on non-skid.
The board always has back foot pressure so stays under control. The gybe will be perfect!

Take your foot out for the switch, the back strap on its turntable will slide back on a bit of shock chord, rotate on some cams and be in normal rear position for port tack sailing. Could be possible for this to go via the centre of the deck but maybe the "X" track should have top and bottom additions so the strap can go back to the rear position along the rail.

I can see the day DaKine footstraps are sold in sets of 3.

dowhaull the bollocks of your sail till its a 5.0 and wear a helmet!

sboardcrazy said...

Carantoc said...

Macroscien said...

How to jibe when you are seriously overpowered ( on the choppy water)?
I need your advice.

Why do you want to sail seriously overpowered ?

Even the 10,000 times world champion and the fastest person to ever sail a windsurfer say it is about control not about power.

Why not just sail seriously in control ??

. Maybe that's the smallest gear he has?

You are right ! This is a result of the gybe practice session in rough terrain a few weeks ago. Full speed, 100% commitment , strong wind , no mercy on my favourite high wind 84L Naish.... but foot slipped and I landed knee on the board




I guess few patches of the fibreglass will do and she is back on the water soon

^^That guy sucks because he doesn't

PhilSWR said...

seanhogan said...

Bit off track Marco, but the answers to the following may be of interest to ya.

Right, that short clip is great. Now tell me, as a Gumby at any form of gybe, is the laydown any easier than a normal gybe? Any advantage to them? They do look sweet when done like the above.

IMO Lay down gybe is much more difficult to perform, because need real commitment, possibility of catching chop with sail in rough terrain, sometimes dig rails too deep into water because sail actually try to sink the board when done too rapidly...
on another hand is very useful to release power, and keep board nicely sticking to the water in that choppy conditions as well pressing board nose down....
that is my opinion and that is way I am trying now to learn to do it properly....
Well done in the video above but condition quite comfortable. ON another hand world masters do this at extreme : Our speed master do this lay down gybe to brake speed down after beating world speed record in the narrow channel, PWA do this at very choppy condition above... for me just whole essence of the windsurfing... well performed gybe

beautiful example for usefulness of lay down gybe



Antoine could initiate this deep jibe any using sail....
no time wasted for moving your foot to the rail
almost all the time remains in the straps...