I see several people using and promoting a method to find the balance point of a windsurfing sail with two fingers. They supposedly find the balance point to put the harness lines apart from it. I suspect it has little usable info as wind (specially apparent wind at speed) will not make force from that spot, and also power from the sail has more to do with the shape than with the mass of the rig (the thing you can measure and balance with the aforementioned method). Any knowledgeable opinions on this?
No , not a myth. You can sail with no hands, just the harness for a length of time. Having everything balanced is the key to sailing long distances. Worth pursuing and getting the balance right
Select to expand quotekato said..
No , not a myth. You can sail with no hands, just the harness for a length of time. Having everything balanced is the key to sailing long distances. Worth pursuing and getting the balance right
Yes I know and do that.What I doubt is the method of finding the balance point: I think it must be done in real scenario and setting, trying.
It's a basic guideline, better than nothing.
Placement takes into account...preference, draft position of sail, mast used, rider weight, wind speed, board and fin, and most important...rider skill.
If I don't have the lines balanced well I get really bad tendonitis. It's really helpful to have it so you can just sink into the harness and take pressure off your grip and forearms.
Keeping them spread a little bit, about a hands width, instead of having the two straps right next to each other seems to make it a little less sensitive to position as well.
When I feel myself having to pull too hard on the back hand, I immediately shift one of the lines backward and try to match on the other side when I can. Extends my sailing time for much longer.
it's even a bigger deal when you're rigged big. My 8.0, 9.5, or my full cammed 9.0 foil sail really wear me out without a balanced line rig.
Select to expand quoteJPBARNA said..
I see several people using and promoting a method to find the balance point of a windsurfing sail with two fingers. They supposedly find the balance point to put the harness lines apart from it. I suspect it has little usable info as wind (specially apparent wind at speed) will not make force from that spot, and also power from the sail has more to do with the shape than with the mass of the rig (the thing you can measure and balance with the aforementioned method). Any knowledgeable opinions on this?
At first reading, I thought you meant that they tried to find the balance point while sailing. That's perfectly reasonable.
On second reading it seems that they are trying to find the balance point with the rig sitting on the beach and not sheeted in. As you say, that's just about the mass of the rig and not about the aerodynamic Centre of Effort so it would, at best, be very imprecise.
I've never heard of this method until you mentioned it. And I think you are right to doubt it's use.
There's another that is probably better. That's a long elastic with a mark one third along. you stretch in along the boom and put the lines either side of the mark. Again I'm sure this is only a guide for initial placement.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..JPBARNA said..
I see several people using and promoting a method to find the balance point of a windsurfing sail with two fingers. They supposedly find the balance point to put the harness lines apart from it. I suspect it has little usable info as wind (specially apparent wind at speed) will not make force from that spot, and also power from the sail has more to do with the shape than with the mass of the rig (the thing you can measure and balance with the aforementioned method). Any knowledgeable opinions on this?
At first reading, I thought you meant that they tried to find the balance point while sailing. That's perfectly reasonable.
On second reading it seems that they are trying to find the balance point with the rig sitting on the beach and not sheeted in. As you say, that's just about the mass of the rig and not about the aerodynamic Centre of Effort so it would, at best, be very imprecise.
Exactly. As LeeD says, it is a ballpark step but then you have to fine tune. I think that advice can mislead some people because it's like set and forget idea and obviously because as I've said, you balance the mass of the sail in the ground, not it's forces dynamically. What about hanging against the wind at the beach? I also suspect it is not 100% right as wind is not apparent. In reality, I hate to stop, adjust the lines and uphaul again when at a reach :-)
As I run mostly 1 boom per sail I don't have to adjust once's it set . But adjusting on the fly's not hard, just move a bit at a time to reduce or increase the load.I think that on land the finger idea should give you a rough guide for a start on the water. You could make the positions with a paint pen too. I also run a sliding bar setup on the harness for micro adjustments
Harness lines don't need to be pulled on super tight. Run them a fraction loose so you can adjust them by wiggling them along the boom while you're out on the water.
If you sail the same sail everyday you probably don't adjust but if you put the same boom on a different sail, or run your boom higher one day that it's light etc etc, you'll often want to move your harness lines 1-2cm front or back. If you get really in to it, you can even tweak your harness line positions depending on the conditions (like if it's windy and you want a bit less backhand pressure, move them 2cm back).
Finger balance is totally a thing, but depends on the kit. I like it on wave kit, but on my slalom stuff I like have them further back so I can have more comfort when you're really overpowered.
I was surprised to find I don't have any eed to move my harness lines when switching between an OD 7.0 nad 6.2. But then I have them a long way apart.
This isn't mine but it may be of some use for a new slalom setup to find a starting balance point. After this it's fine tuning on the water.
Select to expand quoteMartinF2 said..
This isn't mine but it may be of some use for a new slalom setup to find a starting balance point. After this it's fine tuning on the water.
Wow thanks a lot! Looks reasonable and practical! Takes some time but looks like it will pay off.
I'm not going to diss any of these ideas but I'm always amazed when people want to make a simple thing more complicated.
The harness lines should sit opposite the drive of the sail and that usually means equal load on both hands as you plane along.
I just rig the sail and stand it upright on the beach and I hang off the boom to get a feel, and that's an easy starting point.
If you find you have too much load on your backhand then you spinout - and the simple remedy is to move the lines back a bit.
I tend to set my lines so there is slightly more load on the front hand - which in turn helps drive the board off the front foot more. But if you over do that idea then you start catapulting.
If you start using tape measures, or bits of elastic, or hand width measurements from the mast etc, then those distractions become the focus of your sail set up - when it's better to go straight to the feel in the rig.
Just a thought.
That picture is really old, it shows the first generation of the speed-board (50 liters) from Starboard in 2007 or 2008. I have the same board, and it is the only one where I've ever had to put metal plates on it order to get a good stance.... 
I set my harnesslines roughly just eyeballing about a 3rd from the front talking only 4.9, 4.2 & 3.8 wavesail. Then on the water when planing first I shift them acording to which hand the power is on (fronthand > shift forward, backhand > shift back). To really finetune down to the mm I let go of the boom with both hands while planing. If the mast falls forward & away from me I shift the lines forward, if it falls back with the mast towards me and the sail opening up I move my lines back. For me I found the ideal setting when the sail stays in its position for roughly 5 seconds (dependent on chop & wind ofcourse). I run the harnesslines at most 3 finger widths apart, but mostly completely together, also a bit dependent on conditions. Foiling I run them together, overpowered in chop I run them 3 fingers apart.
Letting go of the sail also allows to finetune to the conditions. I set my lines for the lulls mostly, so that in the gusts I have some backhand power. I used to run front hand power back when I did slalom, but Jordy Vonk told me pretty much all pros run with backhand power in the gusts because that increases control as the sail wont lift your weight in gusts, but will just rotate around your harnesslines allowing you to keep the nose down with mastfoot preassure, even in heavy gusts. Also, having front hand power in the lulls (so setting the lines balanced for the gusts) really kills your speed in the lulls as it forces you to bend the front leg more and gets your weight over the board. Best is to stay completely straight & away from the rig in the lulls.
In my opinion harnessline setting is the most overlooked tuning tool for the windsurf kit. Everything can be setup right, but if your harnessline position is off you can have a ** session with a board thats hard to control or doesnt want to go fast at all.
Things go a little awry when it comes to sailing super-downwind, like in the Ledge to Lancelin or speed sailing.
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I set my harnesslines roughly just eyeballing about a 3rd from the front talking only 4.9, 4.2 & 3.8 wavesail. Then on the water when planing first I shift them acording to which hand the power is on (fronthand > shift forward, backhand > shift back). To really finetune down to the mm I let go of the boom with both hands while planing. If the mast falls forward & away from me I shift the lines forward, if it falls back with the mast towards me and the sail opening up I move my lines back. For me I found the ideal setting when the sail stays in its position for roughly 5 seconds (dependent on chop & wind ofcourse). I run the harnesslines at most 3 finger widths apart, but mostly completely together, also a bit dependent on conditions. Foiling I run them together, overpowered in chop I run them 3 fingers apart.
Letting go of the sail also allows to finetune to the conditions. I set my lines for the lulls mostly, so that in the gusts I have some backhand power. I used to run front hand power back when I did slalom, but Jordy Vonk told me pretty much all pros run with backhand power in the gusts because that increases control as the sail wont lift your weight in gusts, but will just rotate around your harnesslines allowing you to keep the nose down with mastfoot preassure, even in heavy gusts. Also, having front hand power in the lulls (so setting the lines balanced for the gusts) really kills your speed in the lulls as it forces you to bend the front leg more and gets your weight over the board. Best is to stay completely straight & away from the rig in the lulls.
In my opinion harnessline setting is the most overlooked tuning tool for the windsurf kit. Everything can be setup right, but if your harnessline position is off you can have a ** session with a board thats hard to control or doesnt want to go fast at all.
Great! As someone said "don't over complicate things". but also people speaks about "feeling" and you must understand that newbies or rusted oldies (like me) maybe could have never really felt the proper way, stance or pose, so adding some theory to it may help. Windsurfers we are stubborn people because we all had to pass that moment asking "do I really need to pull this thing out of the water?" but some are more experienced than others. Thanks for you all!
The "correct" position is where it feels right, numbers formulas etc etc - meh!
Too far forward back hand is doing all the work, too far back front hand is.
The change in line position between bigger slalom/race sails like an 8.6 and a 7.8 is as far as the lines will likely ever move on your boom maybe 50-80mm forward or back.
Small wave sails between 3.8 and a 5 will by comparison be a tiny adjustment.
Like moving from a 4.5 to a 5m wave sail feels noticeable moving from a 6.5 to a 7m slalom/race feels a lot less so-all relative.
