I've had second big 'off' in a month while gybing - both at the same large lake sailing location in waist deep water, with (occasionally very evil) steeply stacked close-period freshwater chop/lake swell, up to ~50-80cm in size.
The first crash temporarily dislocated my jaw when the nose of the board submarined into some steep chop at high speed during a very committed very powered up gybe resulting in a catapult that gave me concussion for two weeks, and I fear yesterday evening's crash, when the board went total yard-sale as it launched off chop mid-gybe very powered up at high speed, may now have resulted in a broken foot (waiting on x-ray!).
Clearly I must be doing something wrong - relative to the conditions.
I've done 1000s of successful gybes at this particular location, but in the last few months I've been working on a semi-laydown style gybe - straight front arm, sheet in, 'see' the nose of the board, carve, foot change, rig flip, exit. This kind of gybe is brilliant at maintaining mast foot pressure and driving the board through this nasty chop and maintaining speed BUT I suspect the power factor combined with the conditions, means that when it does go wrong, it goes massively wrong with a big bang. I actually thought the problem with the first crash was that I wasn't committing to the gybe enough, but I think I've nixed that idea now.
Previously I used a more 'open sail' gybe technique here, keeping the rig in front of me and bouncing over the evil chop, but was told sheeting in and laying it down was better 
It certainly looks cooler, haha...
Any tips or advice, or should I just lay off the committed semi-laydowns at this particular location. Boards are Tabou Rocket Plus 113 with GA Cosmic 8.3 in ~16-18 kts wind (foot damage) and Tabou 3s 107 with GA Hybrid 6.4 in ~22-25 kts wind (concussion).
You might be like the rest of us getting too old to do crazy sheet .slow down take your time .I've only broken my neck windsurfing .
I think I am wiser now .enjoy the ride, repair ...
and get back out there .
I haven't had any issues with windsurfing (tough wood), but with windfoiling I've had some massive crashes... I've since invested in one of these harness release hooks, it's helped send me away from the gear when crashing
What kit are you on? Gybe to the conditions. Ripping big lay down & spraying a wall of water can't be done everytime, choose you gybe style each time and live to flip & plane out fast.
Select to expand quoteRolz said..
I haven't had any issues with windsurfing (tough wood), but with windfoiling I've had some massive crashes... I've since invested in one of these harness release hooks, it's helped send me away from the gear when crashing
I suspect the person posting is already unclipped from the harness when gybing ;-) so this might not help in this situation.
Select to expand quoteAoetearoaSailor said..
I've had second big 'off' in a month while gybing - both at the same large lake sailing location in waist deep water, with (occasionally very evil) steeply stacked close-period freshwater chop/lake swell, up to ~50-80cm in size.
The first crash temporarily dislocated my jaw when the nose of the board submarined into some steep chop at high speed during a very committed very powered up gybe resulting in a catapult that gave me concussion for two weeks, and I fear yesterday evening's crash, when the board went total yard-sale as it launched off chop mid-gybe very powered up at high speed, may now have resulted in a broken foot (waiting on x-ray!).
Clearly I must be doing something wrong - relative to the conditions.
I've done 1000s of successful gybes at this particular location, but in the last few months I've been working on a semi-laydown style gybe - straight front arm, sheet in, 'see' the nose of the board, carve, foot change, rig flip, exit. This kind of gybe is brilliant at maintaining mast foot pressure and driving the board through this nasty chop and maintaining speed BUT I suspect the power factor combined with the conditions, means that when it does go wrong, it goes massively wrong with a big bang. I actually thought the problem with the first crash was that I wasn't committing to the gybe enough, but I think I've nixed that idea now.
Previously I used a more 'open sail' gybe technique here, keeping the rig in front of me and bouncing over the evil chop, but was told sheeting in and laying it down was better It certainly looks cooler, haha...
Any tips or advice, or should I just lay off the committed semi-laydowns at this particular location. Boards are Tabou Rocket Plus 113 with GA Cosmic 8.3 in ~16-18 kts wind (foot damage) and Tabou 3s 107 with GA Hybrid 6.4 in ~22-25 kts wind (concussion).
If you're crashing that heavily in waist-deep water I'd quit before you stuck your head into the sand and broke your neck. As others say, the lay down may simply not be the right choice for such conditions.
If you're doing it for racing then that's maybe that's the sort of conditions where the emphasis should be on just getting around fairly quickly even if it involves sheeting out, while maintaining mast foot pressure byt bringing the inside foot forward and sort of leading the upper body with the front shoulder. But I haven't done slalom racing ih a million years so take this all with a few pinches of salt.
Thanks guys for the replies. I think I will need to take this on board and at 48 years young moderate my approach for the future. Crashing hard in waist/chest deep water is definitely not such a great idea to repeat too often. I had assumed semi-laydown gybes were the one solution to fix all gybing problems particularly in technical conditions, but it seems not. Reviewing my gps track, it looks as though I suddenly got launched 90 degrees to the right, mid-gybe at around 40 kph, which would explain the impact and foot injury. It appears that my foot might not be broken, just very sprained and sore, which is a bonus!
Select to expand quoteAoetearoaSailor said..
I've had second big 'off' in a month while gybing - both at the same large lake sailing location in waist deep water, with (occasionally very evil) steeply stacked close-period freshwater chop/lake swell, up to ~50-80cm in size.
The first crash temporarily dislocated my jaw when the nose of the board submarined into some steep chop at high speed during a very committed very powered up gybe resulting in a catapult that gave me concussion for two weeks, and I fear yesterday evening's crash, when the board went total yard-sale as it launched off chop mid-gybe very powered up at high speed, may now have resulted in a broken foot (waiting on x-ray!).
Clearly I must be doing something wrong - relative to the conditions.
I've done 1000s of successful gybes at this particular location, but in the last few months I've been working on a semi-laydown style gybe - straight front arm, sheet in, 'see' the nose of the board, carve, foot change, rig flip, exit. This kind of gybe is brilliant at maintaining mast foot pressure and driving the board through this nasty chop and maintaining speed BUT I suspect the power factor combined with the conditions, means that when it does go wrong, it goes massively wrong with a big bang. I actually thought the problem with the first crash was that I wasn't committing to the gybe enough, but I think I've nixed that idea now.
Previously I used a more 'open sail' gybe technique here, keeping the rig in front of me and bouncing over the evil chop, but was told sheeting in and laying it down was better It certainly looks cooler, haha...
Any tips or advice, or should I just lay off the committed semi-laydowns at this particular location. Boards are Tabou Rocket Plus 113 with GA Cosmic 8.3 in ~16-18 kts wind (foot damage) and Tabou 3s 107 with GA Hybrid 6.4 in ~22-25 kts wind (concussion).
I used to try and do planing gybes in chop. Now I'm older I play it safe and do non planing ones.. I save my planing ones for flatwater.
If the old way worked , stick to it..
Select to expand quoteTardy said..
You might be like the rest of us getting too old to do crazy sheet .slow down take your time .I've only broken my neck windsurfing .
I think I am wiser now .enjoy the ride, repair ... and get back out there .
+1 ( not the broken neck though..
).
I usually rig for speed in chop . I like to try and get good speeds ( for me ) doing bear aways. Usually my gybes are average . I'm happy if they are dry.
I usually use a 7.2m twin cam on a 112ltre ( 64 wide) or 90 ltre ( 57 wide) in patchy 12-18kts wind in lake chop. ( weigh c 68gs with camelback etc)
Last sail I decided to take it easy and rigged the 6.5m twin cam on the 112 and a few runs with the 90 ltre.
Yes I wasn't as fast , I was off the plane more , but I got more of my gybes, and it was nice and cruisy in the gusts.
I'm usually hanging on for grim death.
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..Tardy said..
You might be like the rest of us getting too old to do crazy sheet .slow down take your time .I've only broken my neck windsurfing .
I think I am wiser now .enjoy the ride, repair ... and get back out there .
+1 ( not the broken neck though.. ).
I usually rig for speed in chop . I like to try and get good speeds ( for me ) doing bear aways. Usually my gybes are average . I'm happy if they are dry.
I usually use a 7.2m twin cam on a 112ltre ( 64 wide) or 90 ltre ( 57 wide) in patchy 12-18kts wind in lake chop. ( weigh c 68gs with camelback etc)
Last sail I decided to take it easy and rigged the 6.5m twin cam on the 112 and a few runs with the 90 ltre.
Yes I wasn't as fast , I was off the plane more , but I got more of my gybes, and it was nice and cruisy in the gusts.
I'm usually hanging on for grim death.
+2 .I'm still crazy about going fast ,but don't take as many risks .I try and stay away from stupidly shallow areas .like before .
I like to ocean sail ,and always gybe on the wave face or swell or chop what ever pops its head up .Its so much easier getting it around .
Slow down a bit, look for a bank to carve off. Try and exit on a downhill bit of chop. No one can do full planing fast gybes through nasty chop.
Select to expand quoteAoetearoaSailor said..
This kind of gybe is brilliant at maintaining mast foot pressure and driving the board through this nasty chop and maintaining speed BUT I suspect the power factor combined with the conditions, means that when it does go wrong, it goes massively wrong with a big bang. I actually thought the problem with the first crash was that I wasn't committing to the gybe enough, but I think I've nixed that idea now.
Previously I used a more 'open sail' gybe technique here, keeping the rig in front of me and bouncing over the evil chop, but was told sheeting in and laying it down was better It certainly looks cooler, haha...
Any tips or advice, or should I just lay off the committed semi-laydowns at this particular location. Boards are Tabou Rocket Plus 113 with GA Cosmic 8.3 in ~16-18 kts wind (foot damage) and Tabou 3s 107 with GA Hybrid 6.4 in ~22-25 kts wind (concussion).
I had a go on a Tabou Rocket Plus and found it had quite low nose rocker and shoulders. Same as one of my boards, Exocet S3.
This made gybing in chop harder. So I mostly avoided that by sailing on flatter spots, but when no choice, I had to modify technique and not repeat errors.
1st gybe here I had the old rear foot right behind the opposite front strap, so weight more forward, and didnt bank the board so much, probably contributing more to the failure. So the nose just ploughed into a chop and board stopped. 2nd gybe was ok. Neither at high speed, but reckon the same would apply at higher speeds.
Your second crash on the 3S not down to board design, just hitting chop at speed I reckon. Bend the knees a lot, or just avoid gybing into large chop. Plenty of gybe technique videos from coaches on the net saying look to the exit and not at the sail but I reckon in chop its best to look through the sail to spot chop, and flip the rig when on the downwind side of a chop.
Since i bend a lot my knees and stretch my front arm i have far less problems gybing in short chop.
I have a similar problem where I sail. I think you have to be aware of it and sail accordingly. I look forward and try to spot any waves forming that would put me over the top. The distance between waves is such that you can't time it to use a wave to get around. If you start to gybe right on the base of a wave, by the time you are half-way around you are going over the waterfall on the next one. All you can do is to watch the conditions and get ready with bent knees and be prepared for the board to really slow down as the nose dips. I really don't think going flat out is going to end well.
The secret to avoid crashes at the gybes, but also work for other moves, is to stay on the parking lot.
Most important tip is to choose the moment you dig in your rail. There's a brief moment of vulnerability there. Once past it's all good.
Good downhaul help the sail slide through the turn.
Of course, there can be the old bump, the re-hookup, etc.
I hope your foot is not broken and you can go again soon.
The fastest sailors seem to not take risks, and are always in total control. But they are the ones doing high speeds and fast turns, clearly on the edge of control.
So i don't know, go total yard sale, just make sure you know you will pull it off before it starts.
