Hovercraft Windsurfing

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Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
8 May 2012 10:37pm
Still worry about wind too weak to get you planning ?
Not any more.
With hovercraft windsurfing board the slightest breeze will give you ride of your life.

I don't have access to materials to present you working model right now so I just explain whole concept. How it works.

Before first hovercraft can ride windsurfing board is filled with liquid nitrogen that activate low temperature superconducting magnets.
Such a magnet has this property that repeal everything including water so board will hang few centimetres above the surface.
To provide basic stability and resistance at least one fin is penetrating water surface.
Now you could jump on the board and enjoy a ride above the water in the slightest wind breeze.

It is not really sci-fi but to be fair I didn't saw even model - proof of concept yet.
Read this space on SB in few years time
or prove now that is impossible
DrJ
DrJ
ACT
481 posts
DrJ DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
8 May 2012 10:43pm
Yeah that would be great if you love going sideways downwind at a rate of knots, or if you really love the sensation of spin out. Can't wait to see you give it a go
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
8 May 2012 9:34pm
DrJ said...

Yeah that would be great if you love going sideways downwind at a rate of knots, or if you really love the sensation of spin out. Can't wait to see you give it a go
actually a hovercraft with little carbon centreboard and a little fin to steer would be a great improvement when wanting to go straight ahead at speed on water, you would need some kind of retracton setup for tight manoevers and beaching

king of the point
king of the point
WA
1836 posts
WA, 1836 posts
8 May 2012 10:25pm
olympics 2020
Roar
Roar
NSW
471 posts
NSW, 471 posts
9 May 2012 12:31am
actually a hovercraft with little carbon centreboard and a little fin to steer would be a great improvement when wanting to go straight ahead at speed on water, you would need some kind of retracton setup for tight manoevers and beaching




So add little wings to the centerboard and voila you have a Moth :)
jsnfok
jsnfok
WA
899 posts
WA, 899 posts
9 May 2012 1:03am
Problem is when the magnets counterbalance your weight and then you come off the board suddenly shoots miles up due to there not being any weight

Kill switch or even a leggy might be helpful
DavMen
DavMen
NSW
1510 posts
NSW, 1510 posts
9 May 2012 8:53am
Liquid Nitrogen!

I can see digits being lost

Emergency Ward standby


jamdfingr
jamdfingr
QLD
663 posts
QLD, 663 posts
9 May 2012 10:01am
Essentially, it sounds like you just redesigned a very expensive hydrofoil!
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 11:07am
jsnfok said...

Problem is when the magnets counterbalance your weight and then you come off the board suddenly shoots miles up due to there not being any weight

Kill switch or even a leggy might be helpful

Not at all.
This repealing force works only over short distance. That way you could not design a airplane - with such " anti-gravity" device but is perfect for land and water vehicle.
Even futuristic skate board or surf board. But without any resistance will be difficult to control.
Windsurfing board stability is assured by fins and momentum of the speed that will deliver that minimum control.
Anyway this design will come later or sooner from overseas and we all will be admiring it.
At such case we could point at least that Australian's been first at least to draft the concept>
Then there is a chance that one of out Uni's could throw few liters of liquid nitrogen and spare time to develop the concept

WindmanV
WindmanV
VIC
819 posts
VIC, 819 posts
9 May 2012 11:38am
Macro said...“windsurfing board is filled with liquid nitrogen that activate low temperature superconducting magnets. Such a magnet has this property that repel everything”.
“or prove now that is impossible".

Well, I've got a few minutes between jobs, so I'll bite:

If the magnets repel everything they also act upwards, so the owner is going to be “repelled” upwards too. Although the owner has his foot in the footstraps, the repulsive force will be so great that the footstrap screws will pull out of the board*. To overcome this, the footstrap plugs have to be deepened, the footstrap screws have to be lengthened, the weight of the board will increase, so the repelling magnets will have to be strengthened, which will mean longer footstrap plugs and screws........etc etc, etc. A vicious circle is being born.

*Mighty interesting even trying to put the footstrap screws in. How do you press downward on the screws when the magnets are repelling upwards? On the other hand, you wouldn't have to worry if you dropped the screws (although it would be mandatory to wear safety glasses when fitting the footstraps. On an OH&S level, the board manufacturer would have to include safety glasses with a new board: one windsurfer poked in the eye by “repelling” footstrap screws would cause the board manufacturer to be sued out of existence by the firm of Grabbit and Runn, Barristers and Solicitors).

Thus, the price of the board would increase, the inventor would turn to buying magnets in China, the Chinese have spotty QA so the repelling force of the magnets would vary, the board would take on a “lean” in one direction leading to increased air resistance (and the worst case scenario would be a board capable of only doing circles), etc, etc, etc.

Macro....give it up.
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 11:51am
jamdfingr said...

Essentially, it sounds like you just redesigned a very expensive hydrofoil!

Not at all.
Moths and other hydrofoils need a lot of energy to counteract gravity force.
Another difference is they could not hover stationery above surface
SC magnet repeal surface and could stay above (hover) without using any energy at all

Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 11:58am
WindmanV said...

If the magnets repel everything they also act upwards, so the owner is going to be “repelled” upwards too.

1) Repealing force is spread over whole board surface.
Unless you have extreme "duck feet syndrome" (your feet surface is similar to the surface of the board ) it shoudn't be a problem at all to stand or even walk on such board
2) By the thickness of the board disatnce to the down is different to that facing up, and repealing force is conversely exponentially proportional to that distance.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23648 posts
WA, 23648 posts
9 May 2012 10:09am
Could I put these superconducting magnets on my feet, splash a bit of liquid nitrogen on and walk across the water? That would spin people out.
I think walk on water boots would be a more popular application that levitating windsurf boards.

Then again a levitating waveboard would get some serious air time :)
Jeffrosail
Jeffrosail
QLD
169 posts
QLD, 169 posts
9 May 2012 12:58pm
Macro

You go first. One way or another you will be in the headlines.

If successful you will have followers, if not , then you won't know about it

Sounds like you can't lose!!
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 1:20pm
Mark _australia said...

Could I put these superconducting magnets on my feet, splash a bit of liquid nitrogen on and walk across the water?

With walking on the water boots you will not be that original
Was done already long time ago
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 1:33pm
Mark _australia said...
Then again a levitating waveboard would get some serious air time :)

I guess hovering wave board will be quite a fun.
Instead of wind for propulsion will be using gravitational force .
Slightest wave could carry you indefinitelly without any water resistance
I guess body boarding will be more efficient as standing up on that much slippery board will be more difficult.

evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
9 May 2012 1:42pm
Won't my feet get cold?
d1
d1
WA
304 posts
d1 d1
WA, 304 posts
9 May 2012 12:03pm
Macro,

when you talk about "low temperature superconducting magnets" you probably mean "high-temperature superconductor coiled to form an electromagnet", right? You may have to cool that with liquid helium. And lug along a portable nuclear plant to power it, unless you are tethered with a power cable. And the water would probably have to be injected with ferrous particles. But apart from such small details (sure you can solve them in a few months), the idea is of course workable Proof of concept - Back to the Future 2!

On a more practical note, I suspect that some aircraft technology will eventually filter through and modernize sailing. For example, there can be passive stall indicators on the sails allowing for optimum in-sheeting. The board can have active canards to adjust the attitude (roll, pitch, yaw) while sailing. The GPS unit can project the speed and bearing on the sail (like a HUD). The boards can have active rockerline (straightens and flexes as required). Lots of scope for improvement, IMO...
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 4:04pm
d1 said...

Macro,
low temperature superconducting magnets

In our real terms low temperature means exactly high temperature
to be fair I would to use one that could utilize room temperature to:
a) avoid "cold feet",
a) don't freeze the ocean beneth (that could cause -levitating skate board or skate shoes
c) use cold sea water for cooling instead of:
- hellium - sound funny
- or nitrogen - propagate algae growth on the bottom of the board
-or even CO2 - too expensive - carry high carbon tax
Skid
Skid
QLD
1499 posts
QLD, 1499 posts
9 May 2012 4:18pm
Macroscien said...


....
SC magnet repeal surface and could stay above (hover) without using any energy at all




Except, perhaps for the considerable energy needed to produce/separate the liquid nitrogen (and replenish it as it boils off to atmosphere)
jamdfingr
jamdfingr
QLD
663 posts
QLD, 663 posts
9 May 2012 4:36pm
This concept (and it is good to think about these things as sometimes they pan out...) is starting to sound like someone building an elevator to the moon. Yes, in concept it may be feasible (you can google it) but:

The Science Behind the Concept is a bit Sketchy....
The Engineering is about 40 years ahead of itself....
We already have the technology to do what we want it to....
The cost of doing this would be astonomical (no pun intended)....
And finally, theres no way in hell that I would be the first one to try it!

So there you go... Challege Laid Down and I hope you prove us wrong!

nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
9 May 2012 2:37pm
Macroscien said...


Such a magnet has this property that repeal everything including water so board will hang few centimetres above the surface.
To provide basic stability and resistance at least one fin is penetrating water surface.



So a quick question...

If you repel the water's surface that is directly below the board, what stops the board from squishing that surface layer down until that layer is well below the rest of the water's surface? This would mean that it would still be 'floating' (just not getting wet)

ie. What provides the vertical force to levitate the board plus rider?

I think you might find it a lot easier to just build a landboard
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 5:03pm
nebbian said...

This would mean that it would still be 'floating' (just not getting wet)



Damn , you are right

but there will be some advantages too- similarly to existing air powered hovercrat- water displacement ( in vertical terms) should be that big
At 2 square meters- 5 cm drop - means -100kg lift, so there will be some energy loss during movement due to water deformation, but that may help to get extra stability and at least friction is eliminated
Obviously you could also increase board surface to minimize sinking effect.

Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 5:21pm
Skid said...

Except, perhaps for the considerable energy needed to produce/separate the liquid nitrogen (and replenish it as it boils off to atmosphere)


Agree
We are a little bit unlucky here
but if we only had telescope strong enough
I bet that Jupiterians and other aliens surf levitatimg over their liquid hellium or nitrogen oceans already for free
d1
d1
WA
304 posts
d1 d1
WA, 304 posts
9 May 2012 3:22pm
Macro,

don't despair about the minor issue of sinking when displacing water: the Soviet-designed "Schkval" underwater torpedo successfully overcomes water resistance and easily achieves speeds of over 500 km/h ( google VA-111 Schkval ). Perhaps you could adapt this technology for your hyper-board in sub-planing conditions? It looks very easy, much easier than superconductivity-based magnetism
JonesySail
JonesySail
QLD
1124 posts
QLD, 1124 posts
9 May 2012 6:14pm
what ever you blokes are on pass some this way!

or call Michael J Fox, he had the self levitating skateboard thing dialed in back to the future...along with the time machine and flying train!
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
9 May 2012 6:22pm
d1 said...

Macro,
overcomes water resistance and easily achieves speeds of over 500 km/h

Do you really want to windsurf at 500km/h ??

that is even faster that fastest kiter do

The current speed record over a 500 meter (1,640 ft) course for a kiteboard, officially ratified by the World Sailing Speed Record Council, is 55.65 kts, held by Robert Douglas, and set in Luderitz, Namibia in October 2010.


but still slower that Spirit of Australia

317.596 mph (511.121 km/h) Spirit of Australia Ken Warby Blowering Dam 8 October 1978

I guess if you take your existing board and smallest sail you have even nowadays at right place and time,
you could beat Spirit of Australia hands down.

During the F5 tornado that moved into Oklahoma City on May 3, 1999, a Doppler On Wkm/h)heels situated near the tornado measured winds of 301 +/- 20 mph (484 +/- 32 km/h
if we take this 32+ - into account
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
9 May 2012 7:12pm
TheTank
TheTank
124 posts
124 posts
9 May 2012 7:32pm
Liquid Nitrogen... made me think of this clip :

razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
9 May 2012 11:39pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ just finished the whole movie on Youtube.
Macroscien
Macroscien
QLD
6809 posts
QLD, 6809 posts
10 May 2012 12:40am
JonesySail said...
back to the future...along with the time machine and flying train!

just as I said
walking on the water - tick off - done 2000 years ago
flying train - tick off - done just few years ago
flying windsurfer - still waiting
time machine - I am just working on this I really wish to see how our windsurfing gear looks 100 years from now.

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