Hi everyone... I really need some advice. I am a BIG TIME beginner to windsurfing. I have used gear I am trying to learn on. I think it is workable gear.

I'm 240 lbs 6'1" in Texas with 10-15 knot winds typical
Sail 12.5m cam-ed sail
Board - Fanatic fun bat Lite ( older long board )

Now, I have had a lesson long ago, but my only success recently is that I rented a board (wide board) with a 6m sail in the Florida keys... I was able to go out and back several times and stay upwind in pretty light wind ( it was exhausting though)... That being said, it was VERY difficult for me to get the board to reach and impossible for me to get a run... it really wanted to point and the only way I could get back DOWNWIND to where I started was to pull up the center-board (dagger-board) and sort of crab downwind... the board tip simply would not aim where I wanted it to.

So I finally had enough wind to get out on MY rig today. I am able to stand up and up haul on this board with this big ass sail, but it isn't exactly easy. However It seems like no matter what I do, the board points upwind and even tries to back wind the sail! I am trying to bring the rig as close to vertical as I can ( not leaning away from me) and lean it forward as well, but the damned thing still wants to go straight upwind!

I have a moveable track and I have tried putting the base all the way forward and all the way back... Oddly enough, I had the most success with it far back so that I could stand further forward on the board without sinking the bow.

I have tried with the centerboard up and down with no noticeable difference.

I have tried grabbing the boom further and further back from the mast ( to drive rig forward) but if I go too far the wind just twists the rig out of my hands.

This is so frustrating... I thought It was supposed to be hard to stay upwind, but for crying out loud I cant lay off!!!

I would appreciate any suggestions... Also, I have about 6 inches I could move my rear fin fore or aft.... What effect would this have? it is all the way towards the stern now. should I move it up?

You need to put your forward foot in front or just at the foot of the mast, grip the boom wide and while you tip the mast forward, push with the front foot and pull hard with the back hand. Only sheeting in will allow to bear off the wind, tipping the mast forward on it's own is not enough. Get some dvd like 'beginner to winner'.

A beginner with a 12.5m cam sail
That's where you should start, try a sail half the size or less until you get the hang of it.

I started with a 7.5 cammed sail and thought I was doing it tough!

To steer a non planing sailboard you move the centre of effort of the sail in relation to the centre of lateral resistance of the centre board. The centre of effort of the sail is roughly 1/3 along the boom from the mast. The centre of lateral resistance of the centre board is the middle of the centre board.

So if you want to turn down wind, you move the centre of effort of the sail towards the bow of the sailboard in front of the centre of lateral resistance of the centre board. In simple terms, tilt the mast diagonally towards the bow of the board and accross the board to windward. This will push the nose of the board down wind. It helps if you move your feet forward as well.

Once you are heading in the direction you want, you adjust the tilt of the mast so the centre of effort of the sail is over the centre of lateral resistance of the centre board.

I agree with the others above. Doing this with a 12m2 sail is a big ask. Try a smaller sail until you get the hang of it.

Thank you everyone for your time.

On the sail being too heavy... its definitely heavy, but I'm a strong guy. I just don't get the kind of wind I need where I live to be able to use the 6.0... It gives me no pull. I'd need 30 knots with it.

On tilting the rig forward. I am sorry, I must not have emphasized enough that I am leaning the rig as far forward as I can. If I hold onto the boom any further aft the wind sort of "twist" the rig out of my hands taking the mast downwind...( Imagine if you were trying to hold onto the clue). I am both holding aft on the boom and leaning the rig forward as well as standing with on foot WELL in front of the mast. If I stand any further forward I bury the nose.

I just got back in off the water and tried some of the suggestions you guys gave me. I had a bit more success today, but even when I was able to keep the board from shooting upwind, I just plowed through the water sideways, even with the dagger-board down. At one point, despite having the front foot in front of the mast base, leaning the rig all the way forward as much as I could ( gripping boom wide at nearly the halfway point) and putting pressure on my front foot, I rounded up into the wind and got backwinded and in the scramble basically did a tack... great except Im doing everything I can to go DOWNWIND :confused

think i have decided that the board I have is simply too small. I think it is a 125L board. I think I need to try to find a used "boat" around 190L to learn on.

If the board is going sideways once you are in the sailing position this means you need to put more weight on the front foot to push the board downwind and tilt the sail forward. The will move the centre of effort towards the nose and force it downwind.

If as you say you are doing all this and still going sideways while going downwind then I think its an issue with your equipment. The best learning combo is a big board with a small sail. The worst is the opposite, small board with a big sail. A 12.5m sail is huge. A 125L board for learning is small, especially for someone of your weight. If you are on a big board with a small sail, ie 5m or less, you will get going in the lightest of winds. You will get you windsurfing quickly without falling in very much.

I think it is a too big a sail, too small a board (150L min for you learning) combined with a sheeting-in technique issue.
The idea with sheeting in is the mast remains motionless and is like an axle that the rig rotates around. Once you uphaul and get the front hand on the boom, you extend the front arm so the mast is away from you and also angling forward a bit. Then you leave it there and sheet in with the back hand. The board then starts to move.

What I suspect you are doing is pulling on the boom with both hands so the board is across the wind, the sail is across the wind and is acting like a spinnaker would going dead downwind. So of course the board just dogs along sideways.

Forget about not much wind - that is what you want - 10kn and 5m sail on a 180L board would be perfect for you.

^^^ Here I was waiting for barn to drop by with one of his MS Paint illustrated explanations!

Like I said it is apparent you are not sheeting in correctly. You want your front hand no more than a foot from the mast.
You should be able to sail with your hand ON the mast and sheeting in a bit with back hand, just enough to feel the wind.
Not hands halfway back along the boom sheeting in more and more and mast falling to leeward.

Look for some youtube videos that show how to uphaul, cross front hand over and grab boom and sheet in. ie the first 2sec of starting

Beaglebuddy said..

The mast board combo is all wrong amongst other things. If it's 125L that board is probably rated for only about a 7M sail max, a 12.5M sail is the largest windsurfing sail made and the only boards rated for a sail that size I know of are formula boards, even my giant windsup is only rated to 10M.
Also 10-15 knots while being ideal for the beginning stages of learning will be a serious hindrance for further progress. To get planing you will need about an 8M sail and a special lightwind board or forget about planing and get a newer longboard, a 125L board might be able to plane in 10-15 if you weighed 120 lbs.
I know you are thinking this giant sail should be great for these light winds but I'm sure it's very heavy with multiple battens and cams and it's actually designed for racing in overpowered conditions. Pros use those sails in up to 20 knots. It's heavy duty construction is designed to keep the sail stable while overpowered.

I think we can safely say it's not 125 litres, at 108kg + rig he is going to sink, and I'm sure he would have mentioned that.
It's not ideal learning equipment, but in light winds he should be able to at least sail along in a straight line with a long board and 12sqm. He is never going to plane that setup, because the fin will be too small and the board doesn't have enough width to support a bigger fin, but I don't see why it won't work in non planing conditions.

sav911 said..

Beaglebuddy said..

The mast board combo is all wrong amongst other things. If it's 125L that board is probably rated for only about a 7M sail max, a 12.5M sail is the largest windsurfing sail made and the only boards rated for a sail that size I know of are formula boards, even my giant windsup is only rated to 10M.
Also 10-15 knots while being ideal for the beginning stages of learning will be a serious hindrance for further progress. To get planing you will need about an 8M sail and a special lightwind board or forget about planing and get a newer longboard, a 125L board might be able to plane in 10-15 if you weighed 120 lbs.
I know you are thinking this giant sail should be great for these light winds but I'm sure it's very heavy with multiple battens and cams and it's actually designed for racing in overpowered conditions. Pros use those sails in up to 20 knots. It's heavy duty construction is designed to keep the sail stable while overpowered.

I think we can safely say it's not 125 litres, at 108kg + rig he is going to sink, and I'm sure he would have mentioned that.
It's not ideal learning equipment, but in light winds he should be able to at least sail along in a straight line with a long board and 12sqm. He is never going to plane that setup, because the fin will be too small and the board doesn't have enough width to support a bigger fin, but I don't see why it won't work in non planing conditions.

I'll bet we would all have the same problems he's having with that set up

Ahh Ok if it is a 160L then It has 352 lbs of flotation. I'm not exactly certain what I weigh, but I bet its around 230 (and dropping:) the rig is probably another 30-40 lbs


I will definitely get some pictures of the entire rig the next time I go out and if I need to measure the geometry and If I can find someone to film me Ill get video too.