not sure on the kms/litre but check out the hyundai iload turbo diesel.
enough room to swing a cat (just make sure its not your own) and from all accounts heaps of power and good economy.

I've got a 2.8L Delica too. Similar fuel economy to Nebbian's.

2000 model auto Ford Econovan / Mazda on petrol and gas....

Petrol about 15litres per 100 Ks and gas about 17litres per 100ks...

Struggles for power on petrol and wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding on gas but it sure is handy so I will probably treat myself to a Euro van of some description next year.

Bertie, he is probably referring to when it hit "E" on the gauge... and it still has 10l left to go? Most people have never run it dry nor have they recorded litres used on long trips.
My 3L petrol 4WD (not van) does 12.5L/100 ..... a van is pushing a lot more air...... to get 10L/100 from a turbodiesel van is pretty damn good I'd suggest...... a 3L T/D Patrol does similar so why bother? Get the one u like.
1L/100 difference is $10 on a trip up north that you pay $600 for fuel, food and accom for one week

I have a 2003 Merc Vito 113 (petrol) and get approx 10L/100kms om the highway and about 12L/100 in stop start inner city traffic.

This is far better than the VS Commodore ute I had previously.

Hi, Bertie,

My MB140D (LWB), 2.9L naturally aspirated diesel (about 7 YO) usually gets 10L/100km running around town and on windsurfing trips (90-100 KPH). It loses economy in headwinds, but it's hard to categorise.

Since I bought mine, three developments have occurred in van diesel engines:

- common rail injection

- turbocharging

- turbocharging with intercoolers

Each one of these decreased the fuel consumption of the engine. Even if you buy an older van, it might be worth your while going to Toyo/MB/VW/Hyundai dealers to check the fuel consumption stickers on the window, to get an idea of current figures (and all of the vans in these makes are common rail/turbo/intercooled).

There have been some high claims about low fuel consumption in van articles in Boards and Windsurfer magazines (41 mpg at speeds above 100 kph) and you might also care to search the Boards Van Forum for figures (but I am a little skeptical about their claims).

If you buy a diesel van, NEVER let the fuel get below 1/4 quarter full (the diesel fuel is a lubricant and coolant for the fuel pump and failed fuel pumps can cost over $2000 to repair) and ALWAYS buy from a reputable source (such as BP/Mobil/Caltex). It's not worth a repair bill for a fuel pump if you've got a gutfull of contaminated fuel and saved $0.02 cents per litre for the privilege.

Hope this helps,

WindmanV

HCFKJ said...

Used to have a VW Transporter (diesel) which would do 10-12km/l. It was a great car with heaps on space in the back but I guess there aren't that many Transporters round here in Australia and that spare parts would be expensive.

There are plenty of them here on the East Coast and down in Victoria.

G'day Bertie, I used to have a swb Delica and have changed it for a lwb. I can fit the 127l ss in without moving the front seat forward..

On the subject of Delica's, with any grey import the fuel system differs from ours with regards to the sulfur content of the supplied diesel in Japan. Because they have a higher content their gaskets in the fuel pump need to be replaced when the get to Australia. Most reputable dealers will have this done as a requirement for Australian standards, some don't.
As a result some people have found themselves with a large bill to replace the entire pump. As much a $2000.00.

With regard to running the system dry, imo the damage that can occur is mainly the primary filter becoming clogged with inorganic matter that is allowed to build up in the fuel tank. The fuel pump is then overworked to the point of failure.
There can also be a problem for the unwary of repressurising the system after running dry. Some systems need to be manually primed before they can be restarted, usually the older models.
It's probably best to keep a decent amount of fuel in any pressurised system.

I think the best thing about the Delica is they're cheap enough, and reliable enough for the initial outlay. And I know that after two weeks away my car will still be where I parked it because it's so damned ugly, no-one will steal it

Bertie said...

OK i'm looking at buying a van real soon.
now i've just enquired with a bloke about his nice looking Mazda LWB E2500 diesel and he seams to recall it only got about 450 -470 kms out of a 62L tank which works out to be as bad as 13.8L/100kms.
Now this may have been with his tools in the van and he may have a lead foot but comparing on redbook the equivalent Hiace is 10.2L/100kms and VW transporter 9.1L/100kms.

I have a '98 2.5 petrol VW and use about 13l / 100... I know of some guys with newer Hiace and Transport Diesel engines that do less than 8l per hundred.

I guess if you intend to do a lot of long distance driving up to Gnaraloo or even Gerladton I'd go for fuel efficiency any time. Diesel will give you more km to liter hands down. However, if you want cheap get a gas conversion.

Mate of mine has a Ford F150 which guzzled a minimum of $60 per km in fuel. He had it converted to LPG and now the car costs him less to run than his Commodore.

Although as far I know you can only get conversion kits for some but not all petrol cars... might be wrong on this point.

For WA I'd go for the following criteria when buying a used car:

1) Fuel efficiency
2) Reliability
3) Space inside the car
3) Availability of parts (especially in more remote areas)/ service.

My suggestion would be the Hyundai iload. One of mate mates just bought one and I can't recommend it enough. Drives like a car, quiet, fast (manual turbo diesel) and way better priced than anything from VW or Merc. Recently we took it on a trip to Coffs Harbour from Wollongong and it averaged 7.5L/100km travelling between 110-120kph, I think around town he said it gets around 10L/100. Best van money can buy atm imo and the warranty is epic.

My '99 Mitsubishi Express MWB Diesel usually does slightly better than 10L/100km. I usually fill up at around the 550km mark, usually about 50L.

That said its almost all freeway and i dont carry much weight

Hello, Stehsegler,

Can I tell you that I am a diesel mechanic, mainly working on truck engines.

A Mazda van of 1990’s/2000 vintage will have a separate high pressure pump feeding the injectors with high pressure fuel. The high pressure pump probably has oil in it to lubricate the drive shaft and bearings in the lower half of the pump. The pumping elements (in the upper half) work to very close tolerances (a few millionths of an inch) and rely on the fuel to keep the moving parts from seizing (lube oil from the lower pump cannot penetrate the pumping elements). During the pumping process (10,000 - 15,000 psi is common), heat is generated inside the pump and heat is also picked up from the engine itself. Up to 90% of the fuel passing through the fuel pump is circulated directly back to the tank, carrying away this heat.

If the fuel level gets low, the temperature in the tank starts to rise, reducing its ability to carry away heat. The engine power begins to drop because the volume of fuel being injected starts to drop away (2% power loss for every 6 deg. C rise). The possibility of the high pressure parts seizing together increases with the rising fuel temperature and a complete run-out of fuel doesn’t bear thinking about.

Common-rail systems work a little bit differently to the above, but also have high-pressure pumping elements that need to be cooled and lubricated by fuel.

I’m not surprised that you are not aware of the lubricating/cooling aspects even though you’ve owned other vans. During the mid 80’s, I was in Fiji training customer mechanics and I was asked to assist another customer who had run their diesel engine out of fuel and had spent 3 days (!) trying to re-start it. I had the engine running in 30 minutes, simply by bleeding the fuel filters of entrained air, bleeding the cylinder heads and bleeding the fuel lines leading to the injectors. Here was a customer who had a number of that type of engine, but their mechanics (?) did not know how to bleed a dry engine.

Like my windsurfing advice, I try to pass on my experiences and things that I have found to work. Because I drive a diesel-powered van, I have been approached many times by people wanting to find out the pros and cons of owning a van and I try to give honest advice about all aspects. I’d welcome any comments from owners of MB/VW/Peugeot/Renault diesel-powered vans regarding what their owner manuals say about running the fuel low/out in the fuel tank.

Finally, this is not a rant at Stehsegler, simply an explanation of why keeping the tank at least ¼ full makes sense. Remember, failed fuel pumps are expensive to repair and personally, I’d rather use the money to buy new windsurfing gear.

Regards,

WindmanV said...

Hello, Stehsegler,
Finally, this is not a rant at Stehsegler, simply an explanation of why keeping the tank at least ¼ full makes sense. Remember, failed fuel pumps are expensive to repair and personally, I’d rather use the money to buy new windsurfing gear.

Regards,

Hm... had a quick read through the (german) service manuals of a few current Diesel engines... apparently the engine will shut-off before you run the tank dry to avoid said running dry of the pump... not sure how far back this feature goes. I guess this is the reason why you don't have to air modern diesel engines after "running out of gas" cause you didn't actually run out of gas.

Had a quick chat with a mechanic mate of mine in Germany who works for Mercedes. He said the only time they ever see the pumps die is when there is water or other gunk in the tank.

As I said, had a Ford Transit many years back and only had to air it once after running out of gas... but then again, never had a problem with the engine or any parts... sold the car with 280k on the engine to a Turkish guy who shipped it to Iran. I am sure it's still driving around somewhere in the middle east.

i crumbled and bought a delica.

i'll pick it up monday.