can u tell us why epoxy is worse for the environment than polyester

at the moment the urge to drive down south or fly to bali for a surf is greater than my environemtnal consciosness.

can u suggest a better fuel source? I'm hoping the chinese will invent a better fuel source so I can keep going on surf trips, and also, so those truckies can deliver some food to the shops with a cleaner fuel than diesel.

I also was of the belief that epoxy resins are less harmful even though more people can have a negative reaction to working with them. (Bert Burger reakons that red heads have a greater sensitivity, I am sure he will spend two hours explaining his theories if you give him half a chance.)
The polystyrene offcut's are theoretically recyclable and the blanks for the major manufacturers are blown directly to size, reducing these offcut's in the first place.
The better quality epoxy boards are stronger too so reducing broken boards going to land fill.
That being said my quiver is predominantly polyester but I'm looking into some new "greener" alternatives coming to the market.

How much hydrocarbons are used in the production of an epoxy board?

How many liters of petrol would this equate to?

My feeling is that the carbon emissions from making an epoxy board would be insignificant when compared to the average (1st world) person's petrol usage.

After talking to the fellows who are putting together submissions for this article all around australia are having the same comments coming their way.

Have we as surfers become major hypocrites?

As long as we get to have a surf does it matter what our carbon footprint is?

I am personally probaly more the above, but all opinions are needed ,but it seems Oz wide very similar opinions are held.

keep em coming.

B

Bents: are you able to answer my question regarding carbon emmissions to build an epoxy board?

Thanks fellows for the feedback

I am having a chemical engeer I know write a response to the refining issue of epoxy v ester resins although his initial response was interesting on the trade off of longevity against the extra refining need to produce the Phenol A that need to be added to the mix.

It is interesting that as the shapes improve as well as the manufacturing OS of these boards the question of longevity v emissions becomes blurred and it has been stated that in the long term epoxy may be better for enviroment because of less surfboards being made overall.

I work with epoxies 100% of the time with my job and do have to sell the advantages of epoxy over ester resins all the time. Although I have not had to as yet address the emissions in the production as yet but it will only a matter of time.

A Vicco fellow who is doing the same as me here for the article has a fellow who is doing the almost same research in a uni course and should have it finished by mid year and is of the opinion that epoxy may be better for the enviroment when all factors are taken in.

And if that proves to be the case then a whole lot of standard thinking in the surfboard industry will need to be altered.

Below is some my selling points of epoxy over ester resin systems not taking into account manufacturing processes.

Polyesters contain styrene which is subject to increasingly stringent controls on emissions.
Epoxies do not generally cause any problems with atmospheric pollution (but can cause skin irritation and dermatitis), polyesters.
Cure temperatures has been a major source of energy expenditure in the production of epoxy resins. This cure temperature has reduced from over 150 °C to over 120°C and improvements on are continuing.
Epoxy resin has 75% fewer VOCs (Volatile Organic Compunds) contained in the resin itself and two-thirds fewer VOCs are released into the atmosphere than from polyester resin. VOCs are a source of air pollution and can be a significant health hazard.
Research into renewable, bio based, epoxy resins are producing successful results (Epoxidized methyl soyate (EMS) and epoxidized allyl soyate (EAS))




Epoxy Resins have performance advantages over polyester and vinyl esters in these main areas.



Better adhesive qualities.
Superior mechanical properties. (Structurally a post cured epoxy pipe exhibits tensile strength and modulus close to double that of polyester or vinyl ester)..
Improved resistance to fatigue and micro cracking.
Reduced degradation from water ingress.
Inceased resistance to osmosis
Reduced thermal and chemical shrinkage (Cosmetically polyester and vinyl resins typically shrink up to 7% whilst epoxy shrink up to 2%).



Keep up the feedback you will read a summary in the future in a publication in a newsagent.

B

Bents, have you seen this?

http://www.coastalwatch.com/news/article.aspx?articleId=2561&cateId=3

Like yourself, this article does not compare the environmental impact of the surfboard industry to other activities we as Australians undertake, such as driving to work, air-conditioning our homes, market gardening, processing millions of tonnes of iron ore each year, etc.

I want to know:

How does the environmental impact of buying a surfboard compare to the environmental impact of other activities the "average" Australian would undertake?

Maybe you don't want to answer this because the answer is: "stuff all"?

BioPak is a Sydney based company specialising in compostable packaging materials made from annually renewable resources. (www.biopak.com.au) We are in the early stages of trialling a new type of foam material that can be used as an alternative to expanded polystyrene (EPS) and we expect it to be a perfect replacement for PU's and epoxies currently used in surfboard manufacturing. The material is 50% natural plant based products and 50% synthetic. The material is compostable and degradation rate can be designed based on a products life cycle. The foam looks and feel like conventional EPS and can be produced in a range of densities, finishes and colours. The material is priced the same as conventional polystyrene and will be produced locally. We will be looking for local surfboard manufacturers who are keen to test the materials and Ill keep you all posted on developments.

It seems to me we have few choices. I don't know much about theese chemicals we are talking about but after reading the above they all sound as bad as each other. The whole enviromental debate gives us few options we can grasp on a daily basis to genually help. Even those light globes that were herald as saving angels are full of mercury. I think as surfers if we had an enviromentally friendly option we could trust we would give it a go.

If we look hard enough we are all proberbally hipocrits in one way or enother. I take out my recycle bin full off plastics every second Wednesday then drive to the beach in my 6 litre v8 mad max look alike.

I hear ya Porka. I think its about awareness and our concerted approach. The boards look good. I remember seeing a vid of Rasta a few years back riding an enviro friendly shooter so it would seem it is up to us to search a little and find options.

I watched that Jamie Oliver show on chickens last night. I hope I'm not reincarnated as a chook. Bit of a rough go for our feathered friends.

wow, there is a lot of convo about eco friendly everything these days .. for so many years i was led to believe that nobody cared and i have made my carbon print in the world for sure.. but i think its important to be concious of it if anything.

I feel guilty when i jump in the surf imagining the fuel i used to get there but its really the only plausible way, i suppose i could catch a bus etc but i mean those are comparitively small issues when weighed up against huge corporations. However I am a realist also and believe there will never be a day that everyone will feel the same way.. in life you always meet those people who really dont give a ****.

I feel that if my board lasts longer and I dont go thru so many that it somehow seems less harmful to the environment, surely if your board hypothetically causes 10% more harm to the environment but lasts 30% longer .. that is a 20% net gain, so we're winning.


i appreciate the information i have gotten from everyone. Its been educational and a small inspiration to know there are so many people out there who care.

We have just imported environmentally friendly surfboards from the USA. Made from BIO FOAM or ICE9(Sugar) core, hemp grassed with epoxy resin. They come in 8 profiles from 5'5 to 8'10 longboards. They are built to last and therefore not only do you need to buy less in your lifetime but if anything does go wrong and you break on they will break down much faster.

These boards are stonger, lighter and offer better flex. The natural hemp fibres can be seen and give a distinctive look. There are lots of pro surfers in the USA currently preferring these boards. Finally surfers have a board they can ride that doesn't conflict with their ideals. We also have a full range of surfgear made from hemp including jeans etc. For more information on our site www.unitedsurf.com.au or to get more details on the boards www.ushempco.com
cheers
GM

sea freiaght is not a huge contributor of emissions when you look at it as emissions per tonne of cargo. It is quite efficient.
in a perfect world, everything would be made locally.
until then, i think its fantastic that people are using more eco friendly materials.
the more demand there is, the more australian shapers will start using these materials.
at the moment we are sadly quite far behind ths USA, hawaii, uk, and brazil in terms of having eco friendly boards available.

even if the emissions from shipping from the USA negated the emissions saved from using these materials, I would still buy this board based on the following -

the foam and resins are less toxic to the shaper and glasser
the finished product is less toxic to the user
the eventual landfill will break down much quicker
using these materials reduces our reliance on petroleum products.

surfinggreen = supsurfa = SUPS AUST = ???

Why so many alias's?

These dudes have realised that transportation has a massive environmental impact (14% of global carbon emissions), so even though they are a US based company, they are offering boards in Australia made locally out of Australian Paulownia.

http://www.grainsurfboards.com/2008/01/07/grain-surfboards-partners-with-australias-capeboatworks/

reiterate: importing "green" surfboards is friken stupid. much better to buy a locally made one.