Board vs Skill

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warwickl
warwickl
NSW
2360 posts
NSW, 2360 posts
3 Nov 2011 9:51pm
What has the biggest performance advantage - is it the board (my wish) or the individuals skill design.

The combination is obvious but which has the biggest influence?
Al Hunter
Al Hunter
NSW
367 posts
NSW, 367 posts
3 Nov 2011 9:54pm
bad luck,it is the individual skills and I agree it is not fair
tha dogman
tha dogman
NSW
2912 posts
NSW, 2912 posts
3 Nov 2011 9:55pm
you can only do so much on a crap board
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
3 Nov 2011 9:08pm
gee, it depends on how skilful you are or how bad the board is or how long is a piece of string!!!!!!.

disc-dumb smart arse answer by me,but i just wanted too
62mac
62mac
WA
24860 posts
WA, 24860 posts
3 Nov 2011 7:16pm
laceys lane said...

gee, it depends on how skilful you are or how bad the board is or how long is a piece of string!!!!!!.

disc-dumb smart arse answer by me,but i just wanted too


You must lack serious skill, you've pretty much owned every board there is.

Seriously,a good surfer can ride anything well.Yes even I can ride a sup Lacey
DavidJohn
DavidJohn
VIC
17570 posts
VIC, 17570 posts
3 Nov 2011 10:18pm
I'm guessing it's about 60% the paddler.. That leaves quite a large % for the board.

DJ
CMC
CMC
QLD
3954 posts
CMC CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
3 Nov 2011 9:28pm
I agree with Mac, a good surfer can ride anything.

A good paddler will kick your butt on pretty much anything as well. Kelly Margetts has been training on an 11' PU heavy old Mal styled surf SUP against people on 14' and 12'6 race SUP. Nobody can keep up with him still. These are good paddlers also...

There's more in being able to read the waves or feel the water with than there is in some fine design detail or a couple of kilos of weight. Way more than 60% I reckon as well.
laceys lane
laceys lane
QLD
19804 posts
QLD, 19804 posts
3 Nov 2011 9:29pm
62mac said...

laceys lane said...

gee, it depends on how skilful you are or how bad the board is or how long is a piece of string!!!!!!.

disc-dumb smart arse answer by me,but i just wanted too


You must lack serious skill, you've pretty much owned every board there is.

Seriously,a good surfer can ride anything well.Yes even I can ride a sup Lacey


ah, see your wrong there, mr smart arse. mostly dc's with a lot proto's.

bet you've had few mact's in your time hey.

i've yet to see this mythical sup ping of yours mac

its all fair
ScarbsSUP
ScarbsSUP
WA
354 posts
WA, 354 posts
3 Nov 2011 10:35pm
A paddler with lousy fitness and poor paddling technique can be on the fastest board and still get owned.

A great paddler will dominate all but other great paddlers on good boards if on a crappy board.

I reckon the ratio is more like 80:20 paddler to board.

DM
tightlines
tightlines
WA
3509 posts
WA, 3509 posts
3 Nov 2011 11:10pm
I blame my board.
Area10
Area10
1508 posts
1508 posts
4 Nov 2011 2:50am
The answer depends on your sample. If all the people you are considering are elite athletes, then the performance difference between them is really quite small and the board could certainly have enough influence that, say, the guy given a 11ft surf SUP will get spanked every time by his colleagues on 12-6 race boards. So from this sample you might conclude that the board makes a huge difference to performance.

But if your sample is a large group of people who range in ability from unfit beginners to elite athletes, then 99% of the result would be predictable by knowing who was on the board rather than what board they were on. From this result you might then conclude that it is all about the athlete, and the board makes little difference.

So the differences in people's opinion to this question are probably just because they are thinking about who they paddle with, and the differences they have personally witnessed. There can be no simple "right or wrong" answer, only estimates that vary in their accuracy in describing particular circumstances.

Sorry - I'm a scientist. I can't help myself...

goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
4 Nov 2011 7:03am
Area10 said...

The answer depends on your sample. If all the people you are considering are elite athletes, then the performance difference between them is really quite small and the board could certainly have enough influence that, say, the guy given a 11ft surf SUP will get spanked every time by his colleagues on 12-6 race boards. So from this sample you might conclude that the board makes a huge difference to performance.

But if your sample is a large group of people who range in ability from unfit beginners to elite athletes, then 99% of the result would be predictable by knowing who was on the board rather than what board they were on. From this result you might then conclude that it is all about the athlete, and the board makes little difference.

So the differences in people's opinion to this question are probably just because they are thinking about who they paddle with, and the differences they have personally witnessed. There can be no simple "right or wrong" answer, only estimates that vary in their accuracy in describing particular circumstances.

Sorry - I'm a scientist. I can't help myself...




Definately couldn't have said it better. In terms of surfing the difference in performance between a light, low volume, rockered SUP and the typical heavyish over volumed large area popout would be substantial.

Imagine Kelly on a 6'6" old school single fin that weighs about 4kg - he would still rip by normal standards - but by his own and that of his peers he would be well below par.

Same for many sports - people underestimate the value of well designed equipment once they get to a reasonable level, even beginners and intermediates can benefit from a well designed piece of equipment. Or as Dogman said "you can only do so much on a crap board"

rager
rager
QLD
437 posts
QLD, 437 posts
4 Nov 2011 8:04am
A beginner would almost certainly be unable to even paddle a high performance surf sup let alone rip on it and would also struggle to make an elite race board move quickly and smoothly through the water even though this is what both these boards are designed to do. There is no substitute for skill, experience and training so what you really need to get the best performance is the right board for your level so yo can improve to the next.
Dazza65
Dazza65
QLD
389 posts
QLD, 389 posts
4 Nov 2011 8:15am
ScarbsSUP said...

A paddler with lousy fitness and poor paddling technique can be on the fastest board and still get owned.

A great paddler will dominate all but other great paddlers on good boards if on a crappy board.

I reckon the ratio is more like 80:20 paddler to board.

DM


I am with you on this one DM.
In most instances skill and experience will always prevail.
BenKirk
BenKirk
NSW
600 posts
NSW, 600 posts
4 Nov 2011 9:16am
A lot of it is skill but you can't underestimate the difference of a good board (and even good fins). The difference in manoeuvrability between the boards I have used is huge! Mana 9'5”, Hokua 9'3”, PSH 9'3” (ripper?) are nowhere near as good on a wave as a Hokua 9' or 8'10” (which I guess would be nowhere near as good as some of the smaller DCs/Laguna Bays coming out).

The other major factor (in waves) in ability is whether or not you actually have the balls to go out in the big stuff and try new things!
goatman
goatman
NSW
2151 posts
NSW, 2151 posts
4 Nov 2011 10:04am
rager said...

A beginner would almost certainly be unable to even paddle a high performance surf sup let alone rip on it and would also struggle to make an elite race board move quickly and smoothly through the water even though this is what both these boards are designed to do. There is no substitute for skill, experience and training so what you really need to get the best performance is the right board for your level so yo can improve to the next.


Obviously a beginner couldn't even stand on a low volume high performance SUP but they would still benifit from a board with design features that give them both stability and some degree of performance. I have had mates who started on big boards with no rocker and struggled big time because of crap design - swapped to a better design and improved twice as quickly. I agree with your last point.
rager
rager
QLD
437 posts
QLD, 437 posts
4 Nov 2011 10:02am
After you've taken your beatings and get the paddling part sorted out it just comes down to your surfing ability. If you have never surfed before riding a SUP then a performance board will be a waste of time and be more of a hinderance than a help. Surfing is surfing and that part of it including knowledge of the ocean takes years to learn. Some people are better than others at "getting it" but there are no shortcuts.
Jradedmondo
Jradedmondo
NSW
637 posts
NSW, 637 posts
4 Nov 2011 2:58pm
i would have to say that a good surfer will surf good on most boards, there obviously gonna surf different on a 9foot custom to a 5 year old 11'6, but if the skills there you will still surf good, it just might be a different style of surfing.


Jarryd
weiry
weiry
QLD
5396 posts
QLD, 5396 posts
5 Nov 2011 8:17pm
A tradesman should never blame his tools

Rob Machado say no more


SandS
SandS
VIC
5904 posts
VIC, 5904 posts
5 Nov 2011 9:34pm


Well , the board I ride was really cheap , and is a crap design, really bloody heavy and the fins look like something some Chinese guy cut out with a GMC jig saw on a really slow speed, just after he opened his pay slip.
I have no skill what so ever .

This mix seems to be a perfect combination as this mornings session on the ebbing tide in 2 foot slop was unreal fun !
Leroy13
Leroy13
VIC
1174 posts
VIC, 1174 posts
5 Nov 2011 9:59pm
90% ability 10% board. In my case 100% board 0% ability
hilly
hilly
WA
8120 posts
WA, 8120 posts
5 Nov 2011 7:16pm
weiry said...

A tradesman should never blame his tools

Rob Machado say no more





That was sh1t hot thanks
Newmo
Newmo
VIC
471 posts
VIC, 471 posts
5 Nov 2011 10:43pm
Thats the pure art of surfing.
weiry
weiry
QLD
5396 posts
QLD, 5396 posts
8 Nov 2011 9:51am
Will the next set of Kelly slater Kevlar/carbon signature FCS thruster fins make that much of a difference?

Not for me






matt18
matt18
VIC
534 posts
VIC, 534 posts
8 Nov 2011 11:17am
weiry said...

Will the next set of Kelly slater Kevlar/carbon signature FCS thruster fins make that much of a difference?

Not for me









200% skill
hilly
hilly
WA
8120 posts
WA, 8120 posts
8 Nov 2011 8:32am
^^^^Best Alaia riding I have ever seen, no spinny sh1t real turns and barrels awesome
rodriguez
rodriguez
VIC
883 posts
VIC, 883 posts
8 Nov 2011 11:52am
amazing down the line speed !!! super little waves.
fozzy
fozzy
SA
501 posts
SA, 501 posts
8 Nov 2011 11:25am




weiry
weiry
QLD
5396 posts
QLD, 5396 posts
8 Nov 2011 11:37am
fozzy said...








fozzy, is that a naish
weiry
weiry
QLD
5396 posts
QLD, 5396 posts
8 Nov 2011 8:59pm
This ones for the guys thinking theres no way you can SUP that
And No concave
And No channels
And No Kelly Slater Fcs kevlar/carbon fins
and the paddle doesn't look like its carbon

And no leg rope Bugger why did i say that[}:)]

AND ALL SKILL




tallebudgera
tallebudgera
1 posts
1 posts
8 Nov 2011 8:01pm
100% skill


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