Hi, I've got a fanatic 8'5 prowave... And some questions!
It has options for a quad set up. I've got some spare side fins from another surfboard, so I'm keen to try it out, but I'm not sure which conditions it would suit.
What are the pros/cons of quad vs thruster?
Which conditions for each?
What size fins should I use?
What does the fifth "nubster" fin that Kelly uses offer the quad set up?
Does it have application for SUP?
Any help greatly appreciated... That's right you provide the answers, please!
On shortboards, I run a quad in hollow fast waves where you want more down the line speed and longer drawn out turns. Thruster for all others to get up under. The little fifth (the joke fin my m8's call it) I reckon gives you a middle ground between the two. . . not sure if this holds true on SUP's... I would assume so.
Select to expand quoteskebstebamal said..
quad in hollow fast waves where you want more down the line speed and longer drawn out turns.
Yes, I found out this also. Quad gives you more speed to make fast sections, but the thruster gives you a smoother rail-to-rail transition and more predictability, so you can turn more tightly and react more quickly, especially good for vertical surfing in the pocket.
I find out that the nubster, or a small trailer fin, works wonder for wide tailed quads, where you get some squirelling or fluttering when not on the rail. You may not be aware of the squirelling, but once you try a 5th fin, you will notice it when removing it. The 5th fin will keep the drive when going rail-to-rail, and offer more control, but a bit less of looseness. Yes, kind of a middle ground between the two.
Personally, I tend to use the thruster setup when there is not a lot of room on the wave face relative to board length. This means for my small wave location, thruster on longer boards (more than 7'6") and quad on less than 7', where the shorter length allows tight turns even with a quad setup, but the quad speed compensates for the shorter rail line. And I add a nubster or trailer (depending on the tail width) when the board is used in its upper wave range.
PS: making a nubster is quite easy if you have some old cheap plastic fins hanging around. Saw and sand...
I made a 4cm and a 6cm deep ones for instance out of G5s:
Quads give more pump down the line feel , but have a shopping trolley style turn , the 2+1 or Thurster will give a tighter pivot style turn that lets you accelerate more out of it. A bit of an over simplified answer but gives an easy comparison. IMHO
Personally I think it is a myth that quads are faster - they just feel different. It is all about the rider's ability to get the best out of a wave.
The fastest fin is a single fin - less drag - but has obvious limitations for aggressive surfing.
This is just my personal experience from today I usually use a Kelly slater k2 quad set up on my naish hokua 8'5 . Today I used the thruster set up , it was awful it felt slow and and unresponsive. I love the mix of speed , slide and turns the quad I can understand the thruster set up for controlled turns on big waves but apart from that def not forme.
I'm itching to get a sup with quad set up. So I bring on the things I've learnt from my short board quads to My SUP riding.
Never thought of it like that Piros but the quads can be a bit of a shopping trolley feel as your pivoting off two points on your rails. Few other bits of gold from colas like the squirreling whilst not on rail. I've ridden them back to back on a suck powerful day and felt like the thruster fin was like a handbrake. So Quads definately have greater top end speed. But when its mushy I think the quads can lack the drive and push the Thruster have. Hey I wonder if that's why there called Thrusters
. But its just all about learning how each setup works and using it at the right time. Some of my mates reckon I waste sessions and waves playing around with it, which I do. But I love the different feel of each one and the Buzz you get from understanding them and getting it dialed in and having a magic session.
On my shorty's the question I ask myself before i throw in the Quads or thrusters is
"What sort of lines can I see myself drawing on theses waves."
If its driving then pivot style top turns trying to generate speed, I go the thrusters
If its more clean, linked driving lines simply using the power generated by the wave, I go the quads.
I imagine it would be a bit different on a SUP but can't wait to have a crack!
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
On my 9ft lopez, i find the quads a little more stable, however at 34 inches wide it pretty bloody stable with or without fins. I surfed a new sly dog 9.6 this morning, under 30 wide and found that the quad set up was a little more stable, but really hard to tell. Obviously the larger the centre fin i use in a thruster set up, the more stable. Im now a quad devotee, because of the extra speed and looseness. I cant imagine surfing a 9 foot hokua though, not enough board for me im afraid. Wouldnt make any difference the number of fins on that board id need a snorkel to surf it!
Thanks for your feedback.. What you've said makes a lot of sense and I need to play around with fins a little more myself.
DJ
hi everyone, great topic with a lot of answers, has anyone trying the 2 setups back to back on starboard pro carbon?
given the light weight and performance shape( 2013), would the different set ups act more like it would on a short board?
is the quad that fast compare to thruster and that slower to turn(i mean less aggressive?)
i'm riding thruster at the moment, love it,still playing on the position of the central fin tryin to figure it out, but wandered if it was worth ordering quads...
cheers
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said...
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
im running shapers stealth S7 quads in my 9'0 hokua. They work great, plenty of speed, much better than the stock thruster setup... ive got an S7 box fin coming which will b interesting to see how it goes... good i hope.
Select to expand quoteskebstebamal said..DavidJohn said...
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
im running shapers stealth S7 quads in my 9'0 hokua. They work great, plenty of speed, much better than the stock thruster setup... ive got an S7 box fin coming which will b interesting to see how it goes... good i hope.
Thanks.. I'll have to check them out.
DJ
I don't believe in thruster...I d'ont believe in quad...I just believe in a Twinzer
I think quad opinions vary widely because there is no industry STANDARD on where the fins should be placed among shapers. Unlike thrusters.
I think when quad fin boxes are all located near the rail you get the shopping cart trolley feel.
When quads are located to McKee standards (the only shaper publishing a standard and promoting it) you get a more well rounded feel. FYI, you can spot a shaper using McKee standards when you see the rear fins half way between the rail and stringer. Well in off the rail.
I agree the SA large front fin is a winner. No matter what board I try that fin in, I gain more speed exiting my bottom turns.
I tested quad verus thruster paddle speed. I had two identical boards. One setup quad, the other thruster. My buddy and I swapped back and forth. We both thought the quad paddled faster.
I've also found it very obvious (when using really short SUPs) that quads paddle straighter. So if you're falling a lot, paddling a little straighter might just help you catch a few more waves before you fall.
The SA large (a.k.a. SA-2) front with a PG-3 rear is a pretty nice all around combo. On a wide tail, bump the rear fin to the PG-5. This works for me using McKee placement of the boxes.
I only use thruster if I can't make quad work. I prefer SPEED
Select to expand quoteNC Surfer said..
I think quad opinions vary widely because there is no industry STANDARD on where the fins should be placed among shapers. Unlike thrusters.
Theres no industry standard for thrusters fins ..every shaper has slightly different specs even up to a 1/8 inch forward or back can make a very difference in board ...also comes down to rocker and board length too. Over the years Ive ghost shaped for about half a dozen different guys and no one has used the same fin marks or tow.
But yeah I agree with Mckee being onto in with quads most guys have used his marks and adjusted here or there to get what works for them..
Quads down the line speed and longer drawn out turns , thrusters more top to bottom and predictability , 5 fins kelly only
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
I don't think there's much difference in stability between a quad and a thruster (all fins the same size) but a 2+1 setup with a bigger centre fin is definitely more stable than a quad.
Select to expand quoteTh0m0 said..DavidJohn said..
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
I don't think there's much difference in stability between a quad and a thruster (all fins the same size) but a 2+1 setup with a bigger centre fin is definitely more stable than a quad.
Thanks.. I've only used mine as a quad and find it pretty wobbly in rough water.. But I'm thinking that's just me.. 
DJ
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..Th0m0 said..DavidJohn said..
Those who have experimented and swapped around between the two do you all agree on what set up between quad and thruster offers the best for stability? .. I'm trying to get the most stability out of my 9.0 Hokua.
DJ
I don't think there's much difference in stability between a quad and a thruster (all fins the same size) but a 2+1 setup with a bigger centre fin is definitely more stable than a quad.
Thanks.. I've only used mine as a quad and find it pretty wobbly in rough water.. But I'm thinking that's just me..
DJ
Deeper fins (as in a single or 2+1) definitely feels more stable on a SUP than say a thruster when paddling.
Stock fins in most boards seem to be pretty average, they also tend to go for the bigger end of the range.
I have a Houka 9.0 and have gone smaller and smaller with my fins, Quads seem to allow me to do this without compromising bottom turn grip and drive down the line, the smaller fins also allow for a tighter top turn (I ride windsurf quads too so maybe its a feel thing?).
Have tried thruster set ups but didn't like the feel.... less secure in over head waves, but good in small slush but much less primary stability.
Currently riding the Hokua 9 with SA Mediums in front to give more drive and a small more vertical FCS M3 (ish) sized fin in the back.
Another thing I found was how the inside foil of the back fins made a difference. Depending how close to the center line they are means you need less or more inside foil.
Generally closer to the center (McKee style) = little/no inside foil, consider it a single fin spit in 2?
Further they are apart and greater the gap becomes then they need start acting like a single fin a bit more, you might go for an 80/20 foil or more?
Fins can make a huge difference, you just need to wade through a tonne of info and try as many as possible.... I'm still learning!!!!
Select to expand quoteDoubleO said..
Another thing I found was how the inside foil of the back fins made a difference. Depending how close to the center line they are means you need less or more inside foil.
Generally closer to the center (McKee style) = little/no inside foil, consider it a single fin spit in 2?
Further they are apart and greater the gap becomes then they need start acting like a single fin a bit more, you might go for an 80/20 foil or more?
For me, 80/20, 70/30, 50/50, in the rear quads "smooth up" a bit the ride in the rail to ride transition, introducing a little bit of a thruster feeling, it helps a lot for McKee setups where too much grip/drive in the rear fins can be quickly a lot to manage.Select to expand quoteDoubleO said..
Fins can make a huge difference, you just need to wade through a tonne of info and try as many as possible.... I'm still learning!!!!
So true, also we have all different tastes and moods, some fins setup are interesting not because they are "optimal", but because they offer a different feeling, as if you bought another board for just some $!
Good topic!
I recently switched my 9'2 Coco NSP from a thruster to a Quad with Nubster.
I had two solid days in 6' - 8'+ and loved the five fin set up. It felt solid and fast. I consistently made sections (backhand and forehand) I did not think I would make and when I threw in a turn it was drawn out and controlled - perfect on the bigger wave faces.
Yesterday I hit a long walling left (backhand - 4-6') that was a bit slower and fat and didn't like this set up at all.
The wave had some fast sections and then would open right up. I needed speed to make sections and a looser feel for when the face opened.
The quad with nubster felt slower and stiffer on the slower wave.
If you like your quads in big waves and want a more controlled and solid feel the Nubster is great. But that is the only time it has felt better for me.
Select to expand quoteAA said..
Good topic!
I recently switched my 9'2 Coco NSP from a thruster to a Quad with Nubster.
I had two solid days in 6' - 8'+ and loved the five fin set up. It felt solid and fast. I consistently made sections (backhand and forehand) I did not think I would make and when I threw in a turn it was drawn out and controlled - perfect on the bigger wave faces.
Yesterday I hit a long walling left (backhand - 4-6') that was a bit slower and fat and didn't like this set up at all.
The wave had some fast sections and then would open right up. I needed speed to make sections and a looser feel for when the face opened.
The quad with nubster felt slower and stiffer on the slower wave.
If you like your quads in big waves and want a more controlled and solid feel the Nubster is great. But that is the only time it has felt better for me.
at the moment im surfing a 9'3 sub vector
i havent surfed it as a thruster because i cant find a fin that fits the box
but i do like it as a quad in pretty much everything ive surfed it in
i did find that in conditions like the long walling lefts described above that the tail would slide when i
hit a big bottom turn, this could've been because i use kelly slater quads which some might say are a little
small and the tail is pretty wide, anyway i added a nubster which i made out of an old plastic kneeboard fin
(because it fitted into the box) and i have come to the same conclusion above, but as with thrusters i have previously
surfed it gives hold in bigger surf but still keeps the down the line speed i like in the quad setup, gonna start trying
the nubster setup with different fins in different conditions and see how i like it, can only try
Jarryd
Hi, I'm riding a fanatic pro 2013 8'10 and have experimented with a variety of set ups. Firstly the standard thruster setup is good but I came from a pocket rocket with quad set up so wondered how it would work on the fanatic. Put in Stretch quad set up and this worked great on very small 1 footers but was a little tippier and very loose on normal to bigger days. I put the stock front fins back on (they're bigger) and used the stretch back fins in and found this to be a really good combo on most days. Definitely faster than the thruster setup and looser ..... think sliding out the tail as opposed to a tight grippy turn. I love the feel of it but it's not for everyone. If it gets really big I find it's best to go back to the thruster setup as it gives more control. I would love to try a 2 plus one set up to see how it goes. Just as a side note I've tried having no back fins at all, just the front fins and this is super loose but hard to control. Fun on clean little waves if you are interested in experimenting. Just the little back fins was no good for me .... pretty much the same as having no fins at all ..... yuck.
