Hi all, what do the masses think about retro fitting a GoFoil onto one of the Surfboard Warehouse Bam Bam SUPs (looks like i'd need to buy second hand as they don't seem to make them anymore)

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/Atlantis-Bam-Bam?page=1

The shape looks similar to the $2700 Naish Hover: https://www.oceanaddicts.com.au/shop/stand-up-paddle/2018-naish-hover-120-sup-hydrofoiling-board/ - 120L vs 124L

Would love your thoughts.

Ben

It might be ok. But I believe the Bam Bam would be harder to get your speed up before lifting onto the foil due to the rails & rocker. Plus Naish has done their homework to get the best out of their boards to get up & foil.
In saying that. I think it would still be possible with the Bam Bam once up on the foil as it is short & the right size to manouver the foil. I think the hardest part would be getting up on the foil & also recovery when the Bam Bam makes contact with the water.
If the Bam Bam has got good paddle speed, then this will help more so.
I have tried a Coreban Hyper 7ft. It is difficult to get up & running behind a boat due to its excessive nose rocker that pushes water & slows paddle speed. The boat can overcome this. Plus the foil wasn't set exactly parallel to the board.
I am in the process of installing a track mount block in my Coreban Hyper. I will have to pack up the mount plate by up to 15mm at the rear bolts. Plus I have just received a large wing foil similar to a Slingshot H4 wing to try & get it up & running as early as possible with very little pumping I hope! Lol!
The Coreban Hyper is very similar in shape to the Bam Bam & I think it may be a little slower. The Bam Bam seems to have less rocker so maybe more speed to get up & running.

"The stick on mount did delaminate the board within a month" - Stick on mounts will delaminate all boards, especially those without a sandwich construction on the bottom. Basically, you need to anchor also the box(es) to the deck to have any hope of having a durable setup.

"it paddled like I was dragging a sea anchor" - this means your foil wing was at a negative angle. With a neutral or slightly positive, paddling with a foil is not much slower than without (but the balance is different). This is the problem with retrofitting foils on standard SUPs: people do not realize how much they must tilt the mast forwards to compensate the rocker, especially if they place it close to the tail

Learning to foil is much easier with a board long enough that you can apply full paddling power to get maximum paddling speed without any row effect. At least for the 10 first sessions. It is very similar to learning to surf actually: you cannot hope to take off on a shortboard until you master your body movements so that popping up helps taking off rather than stop you: in the meantime, using the longboard that you just motor up to speed for taking off, impervious to your body movements is the key to learn fast.

stevet73 said..


Have the same bam bam but just finished getting thr h4 slingshot hover glide installed on retro fitted 7"8 hypernut.....10 mins ago!

Feedback seemed to be, getting a board with parallel rails and reasonable wave catching ability....so sourced the used hypernut.

All screws lubed. My virgin ride behind a boat fell through so going for it with the short (L plates) mast early tomorrow.... note safety gear ready in photo.

A bit nervous but bloody excited mainly. Going to a place with no people around....to kill....or laugh at me....

Not sure if I will throw two smaller quad find on the back.....

Great tips in this thread, thanks to all.

Steve: board looks great! I am only 5-6 sessions ahead of you. My last one, I took off the fins, found it made the board very squirrelly to paddle. I figure it might be good take them off later, but while learning I think it's better to keep them on. Good call on the safety gear. Those first couple sessions, I cut my wetsuit on wing or mast. Scary wipeouts....I thought maybe a mouthguard or face shield would be nice security for teeth. A tip that helped me: once you start to lose it, don't try to save it, jump off and push it away, above all you don't want to fall on the wings. Also, going too slow can be dangerous: leads to what I call the "Switchblade" wipeout, where you fall to the side, pushing deck to other side away from you, which quickly lifts the wing to where you're falling. That's the bad one. Fun once you know how. :-)

stevet73 said..
just finished getting thr h4 slingshot hover glide installed on retro fitted 7"8 hypernut.....10 mins ago!

Hi steve, it is difficult to see on the picture, but it looks like your foil wing will not be parallel to the water surface when paddling, but angled downwards, which will be horrible. Check it by setting up the board like it would sit on the water like paddling and checking the wing angle, like:



And add a wedge under the plate to correct the angle.

Thoughts on my foil angle

It looks like it's a bit angled forward which is much better than laying back , so I would reduce wedge size , it means you with have to surf nose up when you are up on the foil . 90 degrees to the deck is optimal.

Second picture seems perfect!

I also use cheap plastic keels grinded to 2" depth on my 6'11" SUP foil on rear boxes. They are quite useful when you touch down by the tail actually, as often a wide tail will have a tendency to skip sideways.
I guess you do not need fins on longer boards, or board specifically designed for foiling (thick square or bodyboard-like rails). But on short boards with wide tails and surf rails, they have no drawbacks and help a lot on takeoff in imperfect conditions where the waves are unpredictable, so you can apply power on a whim.

No worries :-)
I would add that the rear boxes will be better, as they have often less toe-in.
Also, avoid any cant. I tried some bonzer fins with lots of cant, and it was horrible, the rear rails would catch and dig deep all the time.

colas said..
I also use cheap plastic keels grinded to 2" depth on my 6'11" SUP foil on rear boxes. They are quite useful when you touch down by the tail actually, as often a wide tail will have a tendency to skip sideways.
I guess you do not need fins on longer boards, or board specifically designed for foiling (thick square or bodyboard-like rails). But on short boards with wide tails and surf rails, they have no drawbacks and help a lot on takeoff in imperfect conditions where the waves are unpredictable, so you can apply power on a whim.

Im not sure i understand your reasoning on using fins Colas. The foil mast itself is like 15 fins stacked on top of themselves which make any board track reasonably well. Maybe your foil is placed too far forward in the board? I personally prefer no fins as they just add to drag when paddling in. With foiling we want to paddle in super early so the fastest paddling board possible will make that easier.

Cheers,

Ryan

OceanAddicts said..
I personally prefer no fins as they just add to drag when paddling in.

Just try them, and you will realize that fins can actually reduce a lot the drag: having a board perfectly aligned with the water flow has a lot less drag than if it is slightly moving sideways. Plus the surface of the 2" fins is negligible compared to the wetted board surface.
And big fins in front can benefit from small fin(s) in rear: just think of the benefits of a small trailer fin for twin fins, or a nubster for quads. Add to this that the foil mast is a single point of rotation around which the board can pivot freely...

Of course, I only need them on my 6'10", and in rough conditions. No need for fins on a 8', or on my 6'10" on glassy water where I can better control my paddling. But I leave them even for glassy conditions, as they have only advantages and no drawbacks.

OceanAddicts said..
restrict you in terms of late takeoffs as you often have to pivot the foil off the mast axis very quickly.

Then I guess you never tried the fins stevet73 and I use. With them, the board still can make a U-turn instantly.
Sounds like you used regular, deep fins.
As for paddling technique... I have been using 6'+ SUP boards for six years.

And for your opinion on trailer fins, I would just say:
- With the FCSII system, I have had lots of sessions where I was swapping fins around between waves on the water. Adding/removing a trailer, using assymetrical fin setups, ... Try it, it will both open your mind and have a reality check instead of preconceptions.
- There is a reason people now use thrusters and quads rather than twin fins (or single fin). Having fin(s) at a central pivot point is less reliable than having fins at different place longitudinally. And nubsters definitely help when your quad board have a "shopping trolley cart" feel in the rail-to-rail transition. But not all boards have it.
- "The increased drag of even a single fin is huge when paddling!!" so you should paddle faster with no fin, then. This is absurd and show that, as always in surfing, everything is a compromise. In case of fins for paddling, a compromise between drag from the fin and drag from the board moving somewhat sideways. What I say, and stevet73 discovered, is that 2" deep mini keels can provide this optimal compromise for some boards.

And on piloting from the rear of the board, I think foiling is more flying a plane than surfing. Look at the future of foiling as shown by Austin Kalama lastest videos in Florida for instance. His front foot is now even closer to the nose than his rear foot from the tail... (pic below) If you want to foil with your back foot, you should try canard foils, that will have the main wing under your rear foot, and that people who ride them tell me they feel like surfing (and I am eager to test them myself).In a nutshell: keep and open mind, and actually test things.

coxy31 said..
We are foiling here, what is the board doing in the water??

Yeah, why do planes have even wheels, or brakes, they don't need them!

colas said..

Yeah, why do planes have even wheels, or brakes, they don't need them!

haha I'll pay that one Colas , yes fins do help when you paddling especially on super short foil boards , BUT paddle technique does overcome this as you get better on the foil. I don't use them but some of my mates still do who are really good sup foilers. If you feel more comfortable with them just leave them in .The majority of custom boards don't have them because they are built for advanced riders.

I'll take anything to soften the learning curve. The little fins did seem to make the hypernut a little less rowy with the foil.

Got out, finally, with the longer 60cm mast..... that's why I wasn't crashing on the learner mast! 100% crashes on the tall mast! But! It was still fun. Conditions were overhead peaks. Clean but with a lot of side and in/out wobbles/wedges. So I wasn't disappointed that I didn't have to much success.

I'm pretty sure that wedge factor, plus the larger peaks, did not make for a easy virgin session on the big mast (Note: Feel free to agree with me here to massage my fragile male ego).

I was a bit anxious to be honest. I was completely solo, had the big mast, and would have preferred a little smaller. But, after a few spectacular swan dives with the safety kit on I realised I could eject safely from if/when needed. So, it was a good confidence booster (even if not aesthetically pleasing).

With favourable learning conditions next time, I'm still really enjoying being a complete kook!