An interesting post from Cruisers Forum this morning.
" IMPORTANT UPDATE
We just noticed that Mr.Smith has put Elouise (or in his add Eloise ) up for sale on yachthub.com.au with the broker Leigh Smith Yachts based in Sacturay Cove QLD for an additional $89,000.00 than the original agreed price of last month. He mentions a survey in the add, a survey WE paid for!
Please be aware of this cheeky man!
Buyer beware - Catalina 470
A warning to anyone considering buying Catalina 470 named 'Elouise' Hull # 169 HIN #(US)-CTYY0169H809 berthed at Oyster Cove Marina, Kettering, Tasmania, potentially owned by a Mr Leon Leslie SMITH, mobile ending 040_ _ _ _478 of an apparent home address in Bicheno, Tasmania.
We are a couple that live in Brisbane and during May & June 2021 we negotiated with the 71-year-old Mr SMITH in good faith for the purchase of 'Elouise'. Following reciprocated excellent communications via telephone and email, we agreed to pay Mr SMITH his requested valuation of AUD $290,000 subject to satisfactory survey and sea trail of the yacht that he stated he had owned from new having purchased from Catalina agent Ausail Marine Group, Sanctuary Cove Qld in 2008.
We flew to Tasmania having arranged and paid for a full survey, including haul out on Friday 23 July 2021. At the conclusion of the survey, Mr SMITH could not produce any documents or evidence to support his ownership of Elouise. no registration papers, bill of sale or purchase documents, notwithstanding we had travelled from Brisbane specifically to purchase the yacht and we had even spoken with him the evening prior to our flight and confirmed the process, Mr SMITH had nothing to support he had good title to the yacht. Mr SMITH refused to sign a simple RYA sale contract stating he preferred a "gentleman's agreement" and that his "possession is nine tenths of the law" and other similar such comments.
We flew back to Brisbane three days later on the agreement that Mr SMITH would recover the documents from his apparent once flooded home where he stated the documents 'should be' in order that we could pay a deposit and progress the sale, however we heard nothing from the previously responsive Mr SMITH. After our initiated contact attempts towards the end of the week, Mr SMITH finally replied with a short curt communication stating he was now not selling Elouise accusing us of altering our agreement, which of course is not true.
Mr SMITH is no doddery old man losing his marbles; however, his wife is clearly unwell and it is unlikely they will be sailing Elouise together again, which means he will need to sell.. again.
Potential buyers BEWARE. This man cost us time, effort and money; he had no issues reneging on his word and undertakings. He lacks the common decency, honest transparency and integrity that is standard across the majority of the yacht owning community.
We are happy to standby and have published our experience in the sound knowledge we are not being libellous.
Happy to supply further details if you are contemplating dealing with Mr SMITH in the future.
Ingrid and Alan "
What I found most interesting was the refusal to sign a standard contract and the inability to provide an ownership paper trail.
I withdrew from a purchase of a very good boat at a good price when the vendor got testy when I wanted to check the HIN. He had no receipt for his purchase, and the rego docs did not match the boat details. Boat on a private pontoon owned by someone else, so no mooring details.
Checking on the provenance of a boat in a private sale is not easy, but if a broker is handling the sale, then one might assume that the provenance is warranted. Anyone out there with experience of this issue?
How did the seller get hold of the survey report? Are people so naive that they don't include confidentially clauses in contracts? Or did the potential buyer hand it to the seller free of charge?
In the last photo of the ad there is certainly enough paperwork that looks as though it may include all relevant supporting documentation of ownership.
Select to expand quoteLooseChange said..
How did the seller get hold of the survey report? Are people so naive that they don't include confidentially clauses in contracts? Or did the potential buyer hand it to the seller free of charge?
In the last photo of the ad there is certainly enough paperwork that looks as though it may include all relevant supporting documentation of ownership.
That's a classic example of why only to purchase a vessel through a reputable broker....and yes, many of them are dodgy too, but a few really good ones also.
I sold a boat last year just as the COVID rush of spending on bikes, caravans, boats was really amping up.
The eventual buyer was a real PITA and his finance company even more so. I had 3 or 4 cash buyers lined up in the event the sale fell through.
I was tempted more than once to reneg on the deal. The above post sounds like an over the top rant to me and there's a good chance the buyer was being unreasonable.
As the saying goes, there's always two side to the story..
Select to expand quoteToph said..
As the saying goes, there's always two side to the story..
Agree with a small addition
Always three sides to the story.
The third being the truth somewhere in the middle
^^^ I accept your correction 
And if I was to be completely honest with myself, I became more and more curt as the process dragged on. Wasn't without due reason though.
I have had PITA lookers for boats but only good guys buying. I guess empathy and mutual respect paid a part. The boats were all what the buyers wanted.
The boats were all what the buyers wanted.
At a price that they could afford!
A very important point.
It might be fun to look around, but if it is out of your price range you are wasting some one's time.
'Elouise' appears to now be back in Tas (Kettering) and under the auspices of Boat Sales Tasmania !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
The boats were all what the buyers wanted.
At a price that they could afford!
A very important point.
It might be fun to look around, but if it is out of your price range you are wasting some one's time.
Pricing a boat correctly saves a lot of time for everyone and its a win win feel good situation.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
The boats were all what the buyers wanted.
Of course its what the buyers wanted, otherwise they wouldn't be buying it .
What happened here in WA last year - and I m assuming it happened nation wide, the initial COVID travel restrictions bought out a whole new market of buyers with no idea.. Some of them painful to deal with.
Select to expand quoteToph said..Bundeenabuoy said..
The boats were all what the buyers wanted.
Of course its what the buyers wanted, otherwise they wouldn't be buying it .
What happened here in WA last year - and I m assuming it happened nation wide, the initial COVID travel restrictions bought out a whole new market of buyers with no idea.. Some of them painful to deal with.
What I am saying is that some people prepare their boat for sale better than others. As a past real estate principal I am well aware how important this is. In some ways a boat is more difficult than a house, eg gas regulations, out of water survey, gathering documentation etc.
