Hi guys I know this is a bit like asking how long is a bit of string, but will give it a go.
Folkboats can go anywhere up to $65,000 for a new one, but looking at the older International Folkboat are they on par in price to say a Tophat 25 or are they looked at as being less desirable because of lack of head room?
or are they still fetching a good price because of their great design and fantastic looks?
I am talking seaworthy old sails hardly any gear. I have a fair idea what a Top hat goes for but nothing on what a Folkboat is worth , are they still a sought after little yacht here in OZ?
Hi Zzzzzz
A lot more information is needed before making a guess.
How old is it?
Is it wood?
What type of wood?
What is the condition of the deck, hull stringers etc?
I mean the REAL condition.
It could very well be worth nothing?
If you have see the youtubes of the rebuilding of Tally Ho you will understand the hidden dangers.
gary
Yes Gary Tally Ho Turned me off ever buying a wooden boat, just haven't got it in me been looking At glass IF Boats So very little head room but lots I like about them , not sure how well they are made here I did hear years ago they where a bit lightly made, I do wonder if the cast ballast Rusts and causes problems, not sure if the ballast is internal or bolted? Any information would Be great I have as most boats seen very run down ones with rudder missing going for nothing ,, are they worth the $10,000 and over or are they just a $6000 all day long boat ?
The cast iron ballast is internal, glassed in. I have never heard of any problems with the keels. The boats built in Australia come in two varieties, the Marieholm Folkboat and the M26. The first one is the same as the International built everywhere in large numbers and seem to be worth about 6 grand. The M26 has a raised cabin and I think it might be slightly longer and the topsides may be higher as well. These usually have a diesel inboard and a bit more upmarket interior. They used to be very expensive on the used market but they are just so pretty! I would have an M26 any day over any Tophat.
There is a Facebook page for the Marieholm Folkboat and M26.
I know I've said it before, but it still seems that the internal/bolted keel question is of little real relevance most of the time. When was the last time anyone here heard of a boat with a bolted long keel, or even a bolted pre '85 fin keel, losing its ballast?
In contrast I know of at least one Baker-built Top Hat that had major cracking around the keel, but people seem to ignore that episode.
I've never heard of an Int. Folkboat being lightly built
I think there are more than 2 Australian versions as there is also a pop-top version to improve headroom although you would have to question ultimate seaworthiness. My dad had a pop top version that I sailed quite a bit although only coastal.day hops. It sailed exceptionally well and it was definitely faster than a friend's top hat. Very easy single handed. It was bought new but sold after only about 5 years which is many many years ago now. It got osmosis in the rudder and I think blisters were starting to appear on the hull. It had an outboard well in the lazarette with an 8 horse motor but some had inboards. The lack of freeboard midships meant that it often buried the gunnels which was particularly annoying has the winch and stanchion placement would then throw water into the cockpit but I'm sure that could be mitigated a little. I think the Mariholm 26 was the same hull moulding but extra freeboard was gained by having the deck moulding turn down a couple of inches to meet the upper part of the top sizes which I never thought was a particularly good design although the interior space in the std folkboat is truly abysmal. Hope this helps.
Thanks guys ??
my understanding was the International was built by Dumlinson or something like that.
and the Mariholm 26 was the M26 ?
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
I know I've said it before, but it still seems that the internal/bolted keel question is of little real relevance most of the time. When was the last time anyone here heard of a boat with a bolted long keel, or even a bolted pre '85 fin keel, losing its ballast?
In contrast I know of at least one Baker-built Top Hat that had major cracking around the keel, but people seem to ignore that episode.
I've never heard of an Int. Folkboat being lightly built
Chris I have never heard the story behind the MRK 1 cracking, unless it was Jamie's which cracked on the side of the bow heading out to Lord Howe.
i actually cracked mine in. A MRK 1 ToP Hat that was built by FormitBwhile beating out the back of Port Stephens in 50kts trying out the brand new storm sails. It builds up a very steep short sea in the shallows only found out when all my power tools where wrecked from the salt water.
it that's what you meant then we now know of two times .
Select to expand quoteZzzzzz said..
Thanks guys ??
my understanding was the International was built by Dumlinson or something like that.
and the Mariholm 26 was the M26 ?
Yes built by Dulmison Marine Wyong - see article on restoring one in here;
gfs.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Humbug.pdf
Select to expand quoteZzzzzz said..Chris 249 said..
I know I've said it before, but it still seems that the internal/bolted keel question is of little real relevance most of the time. When was the last time anyone here heard of a boat with a bolted long keel, or even a bolted pre '85 fin keel, losing its ballast?
In contrast I know of at least one Baker-built Top Hat that had major cracking around the keel, but people seem to ignore that episode.
I've never heard of an Int. Folkboat being lightly built
Chris I have never heard the story behind the MRK 1 cracking, unless it was Jamie's which cracked on the side of the bow heading out to Lord Howe.
i actually cracked mine in. A MRK 1 ToP Hat that was built by FormitBwhile beating out the back of Port Stephens in 50kts trying out the brand new storm sails. It builds up a very steep short sea in the shallows only found out when all my power tools where wrecked from the salt water.
it that's what you meant then we now know of two times .
Yep, it was Jamie's, and from my memory of where he indicated (we were down below on his boat at the time) and what he said it was further aft and very serious.
Did your one actually suffer hull damage inside Port Stephens itself?
My point isn't to attack any boat, or the Top Hat in particular, but to point out that on here some issues (such as the alleged problems with bolt-on keels) seem to be made out to be more of a problem than they are while similar issues are overlooked.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Zzzzzz said..Chris 249 said..
I know I've said it before, but it still seems that the internal/bolted keel question is of little real relevance most of the time. When was the last time anyone here heard of a boat with a bolted long keel, or even a bolted pre '85 fin keel, losing its ballast?
In contrast I know of at least one Baker-built Top Hat that had major cracking around the keel, but people seem to ignore that episode.
I've never heard of an Int. Folkboat being lightly built
Chris I have never heard the story behind the MRK 1 cracking, unless it was Jamie's which cracked on the side of the bow heading out to Lord Howe.
i actually cracked mine in. A MRK 1 ToP Hat that was built by FormitBwhile beating out the back of Port Stephens in 50kts trying out the brand new storm sails. It builds up a very steep short sea in the shallows only found out when all my power tools where wrecked from the salt water.
it that's what you meant then we now know of two times .
Yep, it was Jamie's, and from my memory of where he indicated (we were down below on his boat at the time) and what he said it was further aft and very serious.
Did your one actually suffer hull damage inside Port Stephens itself?
My point isn't to attack any boat, or the Top Hat in particular, but to point out that on here some issues (such as the alleged problems with bolt-on keels) seem to be made out to be more of a problem than they are while similar issues are overlooked.
Hi Chris yes it was the shallow water out the back sailing from Salamander towards Tanilba in 5okts westerly I sustained a crack in the port side bow area I thought that was what Jamie got also ?
Hello Zzzzzz,
Just in relation to Folkboat's, if you have the chance to read the book by Ann Gash (A star to steer her by) who, as a Grandmother at 55, decided to sail to England to attend a bamboo pipers school in her Folkboat, it will give you an idea of how capable these boats are, even in the hands of a relative novice.
Although a very good sea boat, they tend to be rather 'wet' due to their low topsides so, more power to Ann Gash who eventually circumnavigated in her Folkboat, 'IIimo".
Ann Gash died in2006 at the age of 84. She had a second Folkboat moored in Pittwater at the time of her passing.
She seems to have been a bit eccentric (then again, it seems all the 'interesting' sailors I have met fit into this category!) and I would have loved to have been able to meet and talk with her.
I believe most of the glass Folkboats were built by Dulmison. The International type has the large aft lazarette locker, and smaller cockpit. International type were selling anywhere between $2k and $6k before Covid. Similarly the M26 version was going for between $5k and $10k pre Covid. There are reports of water ingress from the International version lazarette/well. The M26 is more roomy, and has the enclosed, cupboard-like head compartment. Many have small diesels.
A lovely, classic looking boat in all versions, said to be wet, but fast for their age. A boat for sheltered water, spirited sailing, rather than long distance cruising, or entertaining the wife's friends.
Select to expand quoteYara said..
I believe most of the glass Folkboats were built by Dulmison. The International type has the large aft lazarette locker, and smaller cockpit. International type were selling anywhere between $2k and $6k before Covid. Similarly the M26 version was going for between $5k and $10k pre Covid. There are reports of water ingress from the International version lazarette/well. The M26 is more roomy, and has the enclosed, cupboard-like head compartment. Many have small diesels.
A lovely, classic looking boat in all versions, said to be wet, but fast for their age. A boat for sheltered water, spirited sailing, rather than long distance cruising, or entertaining the wife's friends.
Someone is going to come along and mention "Blondie" Hasler and Jester and the OSTAR races sooner or later so it might as well be me.
Admittedly it was a junk rigged Folkboat but it did well in the first two races with a 2nd and a 5th. There must be hundreds of Folkboats that have crossed the Atlantic.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-Handed_Trans-Atlantic_Race
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Someone is going to come along and mention "Blondie" Hasler and Jester and the OSTAR races sooner or later so it might as well be me.
Admittedly it was a junk rigged Folkboat but it did well in the first two races with a 2nd and a 5th. There must be hundreds of Folkboats that have crossed the Atlantic.
You can add Leo Goolden from the Tally Ho project to that list, he sailed his from the UL to the Caribbean.
The Folkboat was originally designed in the 1940s for the lovely, semi-sheltered, waters of Eastern Scandinavia. Concepts of cruising comfort have changed a lot since then. The Folkboat, and its many derivitive designs, must be one of the most popular designs ever, with tens of thousands built. With some detail exceptions, it is a very seaworthy boat, so no reason why you could not sail one around the World. However, if cruising creature comforts are high on your list, then you might consider a more modern design.
Select to expand quoteYara said..
A lovely, classic looking boat in all versions, said to be wet, but fast for their age. A boat for sheltered water, spirited sailing, rather than long distance cruising, or entertaining the wife's friends.
We have a F/glass Folkboat racing in Twilights at GFS on a Wed. Still fast, and does very well in her division, often beating much newer boats.
Select to expand quoteZzzzzz said..Chris 249 said..Zzzzzz said..Chris 249 said..
I know I've said it before, but it still seems that the internal/bolted keel question is of little real relevance most of the time. When was the last time anyone here heard of a boat with a bolted long keel, or even a bolted pre '85 fin keel, losing its ballast?
In contrast I know of at least one Baker-built Top Hat that had major cracking around the keel, but people seem to ignore that episode.
I've never heard of an Int. Folkboat being lightly built
Chris I have never heard the story behind the MRK 1 cracking, unless it was Jamie's which cracked on the side of the bow heading out to Lord Howe.
i actually cracked mine in. A MRK 1 ToP Hat that was built by FormitBwhile beating out the back of Port Stephens in 50kts trying out the brand new storm sails. It builds up a very steep short sea in the shallows only found out when all my power tools where wrecked from the salt water.
it that's what you meant then we now know of two times .
Yep, it was Jamie's, and from my memory of where he indicated (we were down below on his boat at the time) and what he said it was further aft and very serious.
Did your one actually suffer hull damage inside Port Stephens itself?
My point isn't to attack any boat, or the Top Hat in particular, but to point out that on here some issues (such as the alleged problems with bolt-on keels) seem to be made out to be more of a problem than they are while similar issues are overlooked.
Hi Chris yes it was the shallow water out the back sailing from Salamander towards Tanilba in 5okts westerly I sustained a crack in the port side bow area I thought that was what Jamie got also ?
It was many years ago but I thought the crack in Jamie's Top Hat went from ahead of the mast, down about half way along the keel oni each side.
My boat's at North Arm Cove and while it does get lumpy in those parts in a big westerly I'd still be concerned about hull damage like that in enclosed waters. I've never had a hull crack like that even doing Hobarts in a lightweight 30 footer in a bad year.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Zzzzzz said..Chris 249 said..Zzzzzz said..Chris 249 said..
I know I've said it before, but it still seems that the internal/bolted keel question is of little real relevance most of the time. When was the last time anyone here heard of a boat with a bolted long keel, or even a bolted pre '85 fin keel, losing its ballast?
In contrast I know of at least one Baker-built Top Hat that had major cracking around the keel, but people seem to ignore that episode.
I've never heard of an Int. Folkboat being lightly built
Chris I have never heard the story behind the MRK 1 cracking, unless it was Jamie's which cracked on the side of the bow heading out to Lord Howe.
i actually cracked mine in. A MRK 1 ToP Hat that was built by FormitBwhile beating out the back of Port Stephens in 50kts trying out the brand new storm sails. It builds up a very steep short sea in the shallows only found out when all my power tools where wrecked from the salt water.
it that's what you meant then we now know of two times .
Yep, it was Jamie's, and from my memory of where he indicated (we were down below on his boat at the time) and what he said it was further aft and very serious.
Did your one actually suffer hull damage inside Port Stephens itself?
My point isn't to attack any boat, or the Top Hat in particular, but to point out that on here some issues (such as the alleged problems with bolt-on keels) seem to be made out to be more of a problem than they are while similar issues are overlooked.
Hi Chris yes it was the shallow water out the back sailing from Salamander towards Tanilba in 5okts westerly I sustained a crack in the port side bow area I thought that was what Jamie got also ?
It was many years ago but I thought the crack in Jamie's Top Hat went from ahead of the mast, down about half way along the keel oni each side.
My boat's at North Arm Cove and while it does get lumpy in those parts in a big westerly I'd still be concerned about hull damage like that in enclosed waters. I've never had a hull crack like that even doing Hobarts in a lightweight 30 footer in a bad year.
Chris I agree there is no ribs in the bow area the mighty little endeavour 24 is finished wonderfully with ribs in the bow
