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TS 1000 blues

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Created by garymalmgren > 9 months ago, 30 Apr 2022
garymalmgren
1353 posts
30 Apr 2022 6:56PM
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I loaded Raymarine TS 1000 into the Seabreeze search and came up with lots of stuff NOT connected to the autopilot.

The inward stroke sounds normal but the outward stroke sounds like some thing is wrong.
I opened the housing and found some debris at the inward end of the screw shaft.
The debris looks like a thin (0,5mm plastic washer and a 1 mm rubber washer at the inboard end of the screw shaft.
The video shows the autopilot noise in situ. The auto pilot noise on the bench and the debris that I removed.

Any suggestions


Video link

gwiongwion
30 posts
1 May 2022 5:22AM
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I am not familiar with that model, but when the ram movement sounds like it's crushing ricks it's normally the mild steel bearing between the motor and the ball screw. On my model Raymarine it is a standard bearing available over the counter at any bearing store for a couple of bucks.

Ramona
NSW, 7732 posts
1 May 2022 8:28AM
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I would suggest looking at a few ball screw/nut videos and decide how best to proceed.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2645 posts
1 May 2022 8:51AM
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Hi Gary,
Do you mean ST 1000?

garymalmgren
1353 posts
1 May 2022 7:21AM
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Yep ST 1000.
That would explain why I got a limited response on the search
Will try again.

Gary

wongaga
VIC, 653 posts
1 May 2022 10:10AM
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While the ST2000 has a ball screw, the ST1000 just has a simple lead screw. The O-ring remains are most likely from the ring that acts as a (fairly useless) buffer when the rod reaches its maximum extent on the outward stroke. Because there is nothing to stop the ram forcing at the end of travel, this ring can eventually succumb to repeated crushing (as mine did) and be shredded. Not sure what the other bits are - can you take a better close-up shot in "macro" camera mode so it's not so blurry?

The different in/out noises might be due to some crud caught in the screw thread. Maybe disassemble it and clean the threads. I suppose you've already tried some lube on the thread?

Cheers, Graeme

garymalmgren
1353 posts
1 May 2022 8:32AM
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Thanks Graeme
Will do that and make up another rubber washer.
Gary

wongaga
VIC, 653 posts
1 May 2022 12:04PM
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Why the hell doesn't someone in China copy these simple devices and sell them for what they are really worth (like a couple of hundred bucks or less)!
My rubbish $100 Hitachi cordless drill is far more complex and robust (steps quietly off milk crate).

Jolene
WA, 1620 posts
1 May 2022 10:13AM
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Drawing a shaft through guides is easier than pushing it. Any wear in the guides that keep the mechanism in alignment will cause more friction in the nut especially during the push stroke.
A bend in the shaft or screw could also produce that noise symptom.
It sounds to me like a bent lead screw.
I'm guessing that the noise peaks once every revolution of the lead screw.
Check out the noise peak with the relationship of the rotating parts.

garymalmgren
1353 posts
1 May 2022 5:27PM
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Firstly Wongaga.
I think it is a crime that a company can continue to produce the same product with the same faults year after year. That is what Raymarine is doing with their tillerpilots.

I found two problems and both are related to what Wongaga has mentioned
The O-ring remains are most likely from the ring that acts as a (fairly useless) buffer when the rod reaches its maximum extent on the outward stroke. Because there is nothing to stop the ram forcing at the end of travel, this ring can eventually succumb to repeated crushing (as mine did) and be shredded.

Both ends of the area where the ram travel ends are damaged.
I dealt with the inner end ( the end where the ram is fully retracted) first.
As it was just a matter of cleaning up and making a rubber gasket.
There was a thin (1 mm) rubber buffer gasket. About the thickness of a motorcycle inner tube.
The mulched up pieces were scattered inside the housing and had become lodged in the drive rod threads.
Here is what that end looked like with the debris removed,

Here is the debris.


I almost chopped up a perfectly good tube till I thought, "Why not replace it with something else?"
So I used a piece of 6 mm neoprene.
Here it is test fitted but not trimmed.

Here it is under compression at the end of the stroke.

You can see the two parallel guide rods in the above photo. They end up being crewed into a plastic fitting with a metal (3mm aluminum) base.
At the end of the fully extended stroke that white slider pushes against the metal base. The base bends and the plastic fitting breaks. The stoke loses it parallel motion and the result is the grinding sound that I had.
Here is the bent metal base and the broken fitting.





Here is the broken plastic fitting.

I epoxied it back together but took measurements as I plan to turn this part up on the lathe from aluminum.
I will make it a bit beefier with a thin delrin bush.



QUESTION TIME.
The ram has a fitting on each end . The connector for the tiller pin and the threaded insert for the driving threaded rod. To fit a new fitting I will need to remove one of the ends. Tried a little but neither moved easily and didn't want to spoil a reasonable repair. Which end comes off?











Madmouse
427 posts
1 May 2022 5:33PM
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"I think it is a crime that a company can continue to produce the same product with the same faults year after year."

Ford seat bases and tailgate hinges etc.

garymalmgren
1353 posts
1 May 2022 6:07PM
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Bench test

wongaga
VIC, 653 posts
1 May 2022 8:20PM
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Gary, the grey tiller pin end bit is replaceable and therefore able to be removed. You'll need to figure out a way to apply some serious torque to unscrew it without damaging the ram surface (so that it doesn't then chew up the seal that keeps water out).

My ST2000 also broke the plastic moulding like yours. These problems are all down to the lack of means to shut the drive off when it hits the end of travel. Simrad TP's do have this defect (they have stall detection) which means that whatever their other vices may be, they will not self-destruct in this particular way.
I have posted previously of success in adding limit switches to my ST2000 5 years and many hundreds of operating hours ago. I'm delighted with it, and I am positive it will outlast every other ST1000/2000 as a consequence of removing the destructive end-stroke stresses.

Cheers, Graeme

Jolene
WA, 1620 posts
1 May 2022 8:23PM
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Select to expand quote
garymalmgren said..
Firstly Wongaga.
I think it is a crime that a company can continue to produce the same product with the same faults year after year. That is what Raymarine is doing with their tillerpilots.

I found two problems and both are related to what Wongaga has mentioned
The O-ring remains are most likely from the ring that acts as a (fairly useless) buffer when the rod reaches its maximum extent on the outward stroke. Because there is nothing to stop the ram forcing at the end of travel, this ring can eventually succumb to repeated crushing (as mine did) and be shredded.

Both ends of the area where the ram travel ends are damaged.
I dealt with the inner end ( the end where the ram is fully retracted) first.
As it was just a matter of cleaning up and making a rubber gasket.
There was a thin (1 mm) rubber buffer gasket. About the thickness of a motorcycle inner tube.
The mulched up pieces were scattered inside the housing and had become lodged in the drive rod threads.
Here is what that end looked like with the debris removed,

Here is the debris.


I almost chopped up a perfectly good tube till I thought, "Why not replace it with something else?"
So I used a piece of 6 mm neoprene.
Here it is test fitted but not trimmed.

Here it is under compression at the end of the stroke.

You can see the two parallel guide rods in the above photo. They end up being crewed into a plastic fitting with a metal (3mm aluminum) base.
At the end of the fully extended stroke that white slider pushes against the metal base. The base bends and the plastic fitting breaks. The stoke loses it parallel motion and the result is the grinding sound that I had.
Here is the bent metal base and the broken fitting.





Here is the broken plastic fitting.

I epoxied it back together but took measurements as I plan to turn this part up on the lathe from aluminum.
I will make it a bit beefier with a thin delrin bush.



QUESTION TIME.
The ram has a fitting on each end . The connector for the tiller pin and the threaded insert for the driving threaded rod. To fit a new fitting I will need to remove one of the ends. Tried a little but neither moved easily and didn't want to spoil a reasonable repair. Which end comes off?













So you knew what was wrong before you posted

garymalmgren
1353 posts
1 May 2022 8:43PM
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Nah
Posted then went out into the shed and did the job.
Two hours all up
Took pics and posted here.
It's Sunday.

gary

Chris 249
NSW, 3521 posts
4 May 2022 10:07AM
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Ramona said..
I would suggest looking at a few ball screw/nut videos and decide how best to proceed.


I'd be very careful Googling "screw ball nut videos"!!!

wongaga
VIC, 653 posts
4 May 2022 12:28PM
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I'd be very careful Googling "screw ball nut videos"!!!


Why? It'll just mostly bring up Seabreeze links!

Madmouse
427 posts
4 May 2022 11:47AM
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wongaga said..
I have posted previously of success in adding limit switches to my ST2000 5 years and many hundreds of operating hours ago. I'm delighted with it, and I am positive it will outlast every other ST1000/2000 as a consequence of removing the destructive end-stroke stresses.

Cheers, Graeme


I have an ST2000 and would be interested to know how to add limit switches. Any links?

wongaga
VIC, 653 posts
4 May 2022 7:44PM
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This link is pretty good.
www.cruisingonstrider.us/ST1000mods.htm
I used it for inspiration but ended up with a somewhat different layout. I also used smaller lower rated limit switches, but put RC snubbers across the contacts for arc protection.
There are others, but they are far more complex than I think is necessary.
Cheers, Graeme



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