SS 34

I assume this is the one you are looking at.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/parkerville/sail-boats/yacht-s-s-34/1316623128

It is an earlier version with the engine on top of the keel just behind the mast. A very good configureation. Looks like it may have been converted from the oval fwd hatch to a rectangular one. It is very tidy below and obviously for genuine sale. It appears to have two inner forestays which give options for heavy weather sailing.

Then there is this one which would be a later version with two spreader rig and under cockpit engine for substantially less money.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/como/sail-boats/s-s-34-world-travelling-yacht/1307646201

Not quite as tidy below but the cockpit is a good set up for single/short handed sailing. It could be Morning Star.

Bit of a toss up really. You would have to look at both of them to make an informed decision.

Thanks for the speedy response. The cheaper 34 has an electric drive engine. When I questioned the owner I found the range , due to battery capacity, was roughly 30km. Has been on the market for more than a year. Hoping to view the $45 000 one over the weekend.
Did have a deposit on UFO34 but engine let it down when survey came back. Looks quite similar to SS34.

I saw the cheaper one up close a few months ago. It's Wandering Star. Exterior looked pretty rough and was covered in bird poo. Not sold on the electric drive either if doing any sort of distance sailing.

Getting a complete rerig done by a qualified rigger I'd expect now would be about $6-8,000. I paid about $6,000 in 2016.
If you are going to do offshore passages of any distance a good reliable engine of 20bhp or more is, in my view, essential. A 20bhp Sole diesel would push Morning Bird along at 5-6 knots in the open ocean at 2200rpm (max was 3,000rpm) using 1.5 litres/hour.
I'd prefer nearer 25bhp if I was doing it again.

Replacement of the standing rigging on Kinora (a 30' Currawong) cost about $10k in 2021. That included some refurbishment of the mast (new cap to take upper shrouds, new wiring, new leather covers for the spreaders, new LED masthead and deck lights etc) and new chain plates (6 mm replacements for 3 mm originals) for the shrouds and backstay. Might as well include a new furler and fittings while you're at it.

In hindsight, I should have taken Lydia's advice to fit a stainless steel ring frame and based on MB's replies elsewhere, I should have fitted an inner forestay as well. All part of the learning process. My father used to say "Do it once, do it right", I should have listened.

All up I spent $24k on the standing rigging (including new Profurl 320) and a complete renewal of the running rigging plus 2 new Harken self-tailing winches for the cabin top and 8 second hand Spinlock clutches for lines back to the cockpit.

On the matter of engines, I replaced the prop on Kinora last year and found that the diameter was constrained by the distance from the prop shaft to the hull. The biggest prop that would fit was a 3 blade 13", same as the original 3 blade that was coupled to a 10 hp Bukh. Adjusting the pitch means I can use a bit more of the 20 hp from the DV20 fitted by a PO but at some stage just adding hp without being able to fit a bigger prop might not result in improved performance. That said, as Henry Ford once said, there is no substitute for cubic capacity. Especially in a seaway, against the tide and with a wind blowing.

Cheers,
Kinora

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MorningBird said..
Getting a complete rerig done by a qualified rigger I'd expect now would be about $6-8,000. I paid about $6,000 in 2016.
If you are going to do offshore passages of any distance a good reliable engine of 20bhp or more is, in my view, essential. A 20bhp Sole diesel would push Morning Bird along at 5-6 knots in the open ocean at 2200rpm (max was 3,000rpm) using 1.5 litres/hour.
I'd prefer nearer 25bhp if I was doing it again.

Is there such a thing as a qualified yacht rigger?

The owner replaced engine to under the stairs yanmar 20hp saildrive. Has a 2021 survey which looks encouraging as the hull and decks reported to be osmosis free and solid.

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sailingspoon said..
The owner replaced engine to under the stairs yanmar 20hp saildrive. Has a 2021 survey which looks encouraging as the hull and decks reported to be osmosis free and solid.

A good option. It should be fine.
A bit more power gives you a few more options on long passages when you don't want to be stuck in the doldrums. The extra 0.5-1.0 kts can make a big difference when you want to get somewhere that is a few days away. E.g. Lord Howe Island.

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MorningBird said..
Very good point. I am not aware of any TAFE or other training standard. Some have do have general rigging qualifications in various fields.
However, I do recognise those who have been doing it successfully for a long time as 'qualified'. Joe Walsh has had a very sound reputation for the quality of his work for a very long time with very experienced yacht owners using his services. (I acknowledge that the customer needs to manage Joe very well). His work on MB was always very good.
Beashel's in Pittwater are also very well regarded.

I find that rather odd that there's no qualifications for ship/ yacht rigging. We have sail makers, shipwrights/ boatbuilder depends on what side of the Tasman you hail from, painters, welders, electricians, gas fitters even upholsters have to do a trade. Who would be in charge of rigging a tall ship ? And to think insurance companies require the standing rig to be replaced every 10 years, by anyone, insanity !

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woko said..

MorningBird said..
Very good point. I am not aware of any TAFE or other training standard. Some have do have general rigging qualifications in various fields.
However, I do recognise those who have been doing it successfully for a long time as 'qualified'. Joe Walsh has had a very sound reputation for the quality of his work for a very long time with very experienced yacht owners using his services. (I acknowledge that the customer needs to manage Joe very well). His work on MB was always very good.
Beashel's in Pittwater are also very well regarded.

I find that rather odd that there's no qualifications for ship/ yacht rigging. We have sail makers, shipwrights/ boatbuilder depends on what side of the Tasman you hail from, painters, welders, electricians, gas fitters even upholsters have to do a trade. Who would be in charge of rigging a tall ship ? And to think insurance companies require the standing rig to be replaced every 10 years, by anyone, insanity !

It is highly unusual. Insurance companies insist on rig currrency but don't have a view on the quals of who does it.
others might know better what the situation is on rigger quals.

I have a 30 HP motor and my chosen cruising speed is about 4.8 knots ,, when I push the boat faster,, say to 6knts, the helm gets heavier telling me that HP is being wasted as that energy is now trying to move the boats stern sideways rather than forwards. I find 4.8 to 5 knts sweet and the motor shows little effort in getting me there. If I want to do 6 knts ,, with the motor running I throw a sail up.,,, but usually if I'm doing 4.5knts under motor, I'm happy and I will sit there all day and all night.

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cambid said..

sailingspoon said..
Owner just informed me its a 2ym15 yanmar which has 14 horse power.

Is this a deal breaker?

Don't know why anyone would use a 2YM15 in an S&S 34. Price and size/weight I guess, but a 3YM20 fits under the cockpit no problem. 14hp will move you along but you'll probably struggle to get much more than 6 knots out of it at max revs.

Agree.
You can't judge motoring speed in inshore conditions with the open ocean.
In the open ocean against a headwind of even 10-15 kts a S&S34 with a 20hp engine with well-matched prop will struggle to get 4.5kts through the water. A 25hp engine with a good prop should get at least a kt faster.
Cisco might recall that on our 2015 Lord Howe trip we had to motor for a great deal of time, often with a set against us of 1-2 kts. We struggled to make 4kts over the ground. At one stage Havefun and I thought if the wind didn't come back to help us we wouldn't make it to the island with any fuel remaining. As it turned out the wind returned and we sailed on. That was the longest of my three Lord Howe trips, by about a day. Previous trips I'd leave Tuesday middayish and arrive Friday afternoon/evening, that one we got there Saturday late.
With a 25hp engine we could have improved that SOG by 20% or more and saved 12 or so hours.
Based on my experience, a 15hp engine in an S&S34 would be a waste of time in open ocean conditions. Good for harbour and berthing operations only.

Buying a sailboat isn't the luxury. Finding the time to sail it and appreciate it is.

I agree on horsepower. Maybe the rule of thumb is 1 hp per foot of waterline length.
Yanmars have always been great reliable engines but the YM and QM series are a bit dated and quite heavy.

If needing to re-engine today I think Kubota is one of the best options. There is a wide range and several companys that marinise them. I have had a Nanni and was not very impressed with it. Beta I believe do a much better job of it.

As for the "is it a sail or motor boat"arguement the real question is are you a purist or a pragmatist.

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Yara said..
If you are caught on a lee shore, with a strong wind, and something malfunctions, you are going to need more than 15hp. Plenty of people are sailing boats with "under-powered" motors. Just depends on your risk appetite, and sailing area, whether it works for you. Old engines add another level of risk. That said, "under-powered" boats can often be had for a good discount if you are buying.

Defiance got a brand new 27hp Vetus.
Used existing 3 blade feathering prop with adjustable pitch.
Very happy with the set up, but wanted good power and performance as it a retirement cruising boat.
Low risk profile.
Also new engine weigh a fraction of older models.
Vetus 27 134kg
Yanmar YSM 12 130kg