Hi everyone! I'm a very keen sailor who started sailing in 2018, got absolutely hooked and never stopped since. My ultimate goal (and childhood dream) is to sail from Australia to the Mediterranean crossing Pacific and Atlantic. In the last 4 years I've sailed consistently almost every weekend and sometimes intraweek, joining the local racing scene in Perth at RPYC, RFBYC and FSC and in Sydney, where I recently moved for work and sailed at CYCA and RPAYC + Port Stephens sail week. I've sailed on a number of different boats from S97/S80s, Thompson870s, Fareast 28R and 1D35, mostly as a main handler or headsail/ spinnaker trimmer but covered most roles including mast/bow.
After 4 years I'm now thinking of expanding my sailing skills further and pondering whether I should invest into the RYA yachtmaster courses or just buy my own boat and do some coastal cruising. Flying fish has a bundle course bringing you to Yachtmaster Ocean in 16 weeks which costs around 22k. Given that's quite costly, I was considering whether it'd be a better idea to buy a 34-40ft boat instead and start cruising, and perhaps also live aboard for a while therefore saving on rent. What would you suggest? Is the RYA fast track worth the $$? Anyone here who has done it? Cheers!
Hi Sardo
I think you have come to the right place with your questions.
However you will get every colour of answer.
22,000 $ could get you around the world.
I say go now pay later.
gary
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Hi Sardo
I think you have come to the right place with your questions.
However you will get every colour of answer.
22,000 $ could get you around the world.
I say go now pay later.
gary
Thanks Gary! :) Love the spirit, and I'd be probably inclined to do that, however I'm just conscious given I've been mostly racing in the swan river and sydney harbour / pittwater my experience cruising and planning passages is very limited :D I've done only a handful of offshore race (all of them max 1 day long)
If you are still in Sydney suggest do the relevant courses with Marc as per here;
ausseasailingschool.com.au/courses/
Tell him what you want to do and your background / experience, and he will advise which of his courses would be suitable. Would expect the cost to be a small fraction of $22k for the same or better result.
I agree with Gary, buy a boat and just go.. 22k seems over the top for YM. It sounds like you have some good experience sailing, the passage planing can come with some conversations with experienced sailors and common sense. But RYA Day skipper will point you in the right direction.
Jeff Toghills book "Coastal Navigation" if read cover to cover will give you all the theory of coastal nav', and the pre-amble in Lucas's book "Cruising the NSW Coast" will give you the trip planning info of the coastline of where you live.
Are you going to be sailing solo, or with family/friends?, if solo you could do it in a smaller yacht and get a good coastal cruiser for half of 22k.
50 years on the go so far NO COURSES DONE lots cruising lots offshore racing OWN BOAT mostly own boat
most of the people i respect as a sailor have no formal qualifications but have learnt by sailing with others and extensive reading study of hydrodynamics and the weather . my suggestion would be buy a small yacht or dingy and take small steps you will learn much more than doing a course and becoming overconfident
You have plenty of sailing hours and basic knowledge already and display by your questions a very healthy level of common sense. So I agree with the others above - just buy a boat and learn on it.
Take your time, look at plenty of boats, get some crewing hours with cruising types. And be a complete sponge in soaking up info from books, mags, forums like this, cruisers blogs/vlogs etc etc - it's incredible how much knowledge you can gain form your armchair.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
Graeme
Hi Sardo and welcome
I have similar plans, followed the path of doing several years sailing, racing around cans etc on many different boats, inshore/offshore.
One big thing I have learnt which I wasn't expecting was how not to sail, how not to set a boat up, Im not picking faults with skippers and boats, more about what suits me.
As for doing a "course". I have looked into a few, asides from the cost and time it takes Im not one to learn from a classroom, hands on for me.
A mate did some flash course a few months ago. I asked what was the biggest thing he learnt from the course to which he replied
"stay with the boat"
So there you have it, go sailing and stay with your boat (unless its on the bottom of the ocean.)
Please send me 11k (50% discount for mates rates) 
cheers
Hey Sardo,
I'd say just go and get amongst it. A Meteorology course might be a good idea, but coastal Nav is easy. Ocean nav in this modern age with all the latest tech isn't too hard especially if you are cruising and not racing. Make sure you have some redundancy for the nav gear in case of issues. Pick your weather window and go when most favourable.
I did a bunch of courses through TAFE almost 30 years ago or longer when the tech was in its infancy. Ocean Nav back then was important.
Just as soon as I retire, I will be doing exactly the same. I was involved in an ocean race lap around Australia back in '88 where i gained a tonne of experience in ocean sailing, it can be learned on the boat, especially if you start with coastal sailing.
Hope this helps
DM
Invest the money in a yacht rather than on the whole package. As BlueMoon said, get that Coastal Navigation book or similar and get experience on your own yacht, on your own - no crew. You will be compelled to think more, plan more and to trust your own judgement and skills as you manage fatigue, enter new harbours, passage plan, deal with sleep and cooking underway, etc.
A Coastal Navigation course can be useful too, but very similar to the book
I did about 4 of the YM courses. The diesel engine maintenance course was the same as several years experience dealing with/repairing/servicing the diesel I had. The coastal nav course was always at the back of my mind, (but it was easier to use GPS) and several of the modules all came into play in the background - weather, tides, plotting and chart work, etc. A few weeks of coastal hopping, and later some overnight and offshore passages (Lord Howe?) will give you all the experience you need. A few weeks of practice on your own or with a friend, gives the same experience as some of those courses (day skipper, coastal skipper theory & practical), and I can't see the value in them (for me) compared to doing it yourself.
This book too: How to Sail Around the World : Hal Roth : 9780071429511 (bookdepository.com)
3 Es of development, Education, exposure and experience, with the value being 10%, 20% and 70% respectively. Sounds like you have good exposure but throwing up between $22k spend on education or experience. And if the above percentages are anything to go by, experience is the better investment. However, a little bit of education can save you a lot in that experience can cost you. I did my competent crew and helming course through my local yacht club, cost $300 and taught me a great deal, mostly practical on the boat training, forcing us to do drills that most coastal sailors wouldn't bother doing. Drilling it into us helped refine the skills and for $300 definitely saved a few gel coat repairs on my own boat. I also bought a small yacht of my own and started coastal cruising and then went through all the drills in RYA handbook, watching YouTube and reading books to fill in the gaps. Broke a lot of things but learnt a lot.
lastly I did the RYA coastal cruiser course, only cost $1000 including food and board, lasted 10 days and was a lot fun, I did it in the Med and highly recommend it. Doing 20x med mooring drills in a marina with someone else's boat and insurance, made it a lot less stressful doing it in my own boat for the first time. The big thing I took from the RYA course was lots of small tips from an experienced cruising skipper which I hadn't picked up in racing or on my own. And navigation without electronics, especially at night. Important skills to have if you are sailing from Aus to Med, and much cheaper to break someone else's boat than your own in learning. Also buy an older boat with problems and learn how to fix them. Hardest part of sailing isn't navigation, trimming sails or anchoring. The hard part is the maintenance and fixing things, which is important to know for ocean crossings.
Just get out there!
Wow guys, thanks so much! So many answers, a lot of advice to act upon, and a few books to buy and read. From your replies sounds like that money would be better spent on a combo of education and a boat to sail on.
So, might invest 2k in education and the remaining 20k on my first yacht I've also found a free diesel course provided by Navathome (I think it's free cause they're still developing the content) and might just do a course on Marine First Aid and Marine Radio, then learn navigation and meteorology through books / internet (or just do the theory for RYA day skipper and yachtmaster).
Thx again everyone and if you have any other recommendations for good (and possibly free) learning resources please shoot them through.
@Craig66 - 11k? Damn, you're the most expensive piece of advice I've ever been given ahah
Select to expand quotesardosailor said..
@Craig66 - 11k? Damn, you're the most expensive piece of advice I've ever been given ahah
Don't be mug mate, I only want $5.5k!
Sardo, a coxswains course at Tafe or another rto will give you more than enough info to plan coastal cruises, bring things like colrgs & pollution regs into view, meteorology, survival at sea, fire fighting, etc & if you put sea time in you have a commercial ticket, but don't hesitate to get a boat and do it, as long as the vessel is sound. ( lots of boats that haven't been off the mooring for years make surprisingly good coastal voyages, before being washed ashore or towed in to harbour)
I've done most of the courses. After the basics I learnt a million percent more by buying a sound boat and getting out of my comfort zone.
Do the courses if you wish but going sailing in your own boat is a must.
As you've experienced racing you get pigeon holed into roles. On your own boat you have to think through and do everything, even with crew.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
I've done most of the courses. After the basics I learnt a million percent more by buying a sound boat and getting out of my comfort zone.
Do the courses if you wish but going sailing in your own boat is a must.
As you've experienced racing you get pigeon holed into roles. On your own boat you have to think through and do everything, even with crew.
Totally agree on getting pigeonholed into roles when racing - I think I was lucky to get exposure to all roles on a number of different boats and had a few chances to also helm on short passages. That helped in starting to build the "big picture" view you're referring to, although nothing like getting out and spend time sailing your own boat.
I think racing is great in a way that regardless of the role it exposes you to a number of different situations and challenges, and in heavy air you learn how things could go wrong (sometimes very quickly) and learn from that. There aren't many chances to helm but I guess after you've rotated roles enough you have a pretty solid understanding of what's happening :) The rest is left to intuition and good communication with the helm to make their life easier.. Agree though that racing as a crew member you'll never fully build helm's view (that's probably why some of them shout so much - they feel misunderstood :D)
Well I did most of the AYF courses and then got to some of the practical tests and was told I'd always fail my first attempt.
TOLD THEM ALL TO GET NICKED!!!
Sailed my Top Hat, single handed, three times now to the Whitsundays and hopefully going again next year.
I've lost count of the sailing schools ive emailed without reply about doing the sail part of yacht master, so I can get a sail endorsement on the amsa coxswains ticket. It mustn't be lucrative enough without presenting all the units, I've done the exams for master<24m & MED 3.
Select to expand quotesardosailor said..
I think racing is great in a way that regardless of the role it exposes you to a number of different situations and challenges, and in heavy air you learn how things could go wrong (sometimes very quickly) and learn from that. There aren't many chances to helm but I guess after you've rotated roles enough you have a pretty solid understanding of what's happening :)
hey, some good points in the replies above. Did the same transition about 20 years ago, the biggest gap I found was not being on a boat with 5+ other people that also knew what they were doing. Either short handed or just with a bunch of novices you don't have enough hands to sail the boat and explain what needs to be done and get things done in time. Not insurmountable, but really helps having even one other person with similar experience that you have.
my vote is go for the boat ( with a buddy 1/2 share?).
