My Davidson 32 'Spindrift' came with a lot of extra kit. It is not my intention to soften it integrity as a world cruising yacht but I have two of everything on the mast. Some of the rigging is rope and some is a combination of rope and wire. I would like to simplify it. How do I choose which spinnaker line to keep and which one to remove etc. A little advice would be appreciated.
Excess Halyards
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
My Davidson 32 'Spindrift' came with a lot of extra kit. It is not my intention to soften it integrity as a world cruising yacht but I have two of everything on the mast. Some of the rigging is rope and some is a combination of rope and wire. I would like to simplify it. How do I choose which spinnaker line to keep and which one to remove etc. A little advice would be appreciated.
Excess Halyards
As far as halyards go, remove nothing. Stow correctly and embrace the fact that someone set up your yacht correctly, allowing for the inevitable dilemmas that will happen.
Remember, someone with a lot more experience than you set up the boat, so think long and hard before you undo that which was done.
Being a 1974 build I Stand corrected but am guessing you might have two rope to wire halyards ,both of which run up in the mast which were used with a twin track luff bolt rope extrusion forestay to hoist one sail before dropping the other The other is all rope with the mast block on the outside for the spinnaker. You may have another for the blooper. Why ditch any just update to Dyneema.
I have a similar set up. I'm moving the winches to the cabin top with the cleats, no jammers. Making or buying a mast slide cassette. I like the deck prisms, might have to find a couple. The genoa sail tracks raised up like that is something I'm also going to do. I'm guessing that's a plywood deck?
I have two of everything on the mast.
So, that would be
2 mainsail halyards (or one halyard and one beefy topping lift.)
2 foresail halyards.
and you mentioned two spinnaker halyards.
Six lines in all.
I think because they are stowed at the mast it looks a bit crowded. Lines that come back to the cockpit have bags or what not to look tidier. But that is only looks. Functionally, you have a great set up.
Wire to braid lines are out of fashion, but I like mine. When they give out I will make up some dyneema to braid lines to replace them. You can live with yours for years. After all halyards are used for a very short time each time you go for a sail.
If you have two spin halyards, you could remove one to get it out of the sun and get more life from it.
Do you have roller furling?
Gary
PS I forgot Spin pole topping lift and downhaul. makes 8 lines.
A lot of issues here to sort. Imho the halyards can be significantly reduced for local Aust east coast sailing. If the intention is to still keep the rig as world cruising capable then maybe leave as is would be the cost effective solution. But Spindrift has done that already and it maybe isn't the plan going fwd? All those halyards terminating at the mast in their end loops are not efficient.............and that layout would have been designed for far more crew than the 2 person crew who went to Alaska and back. Look at Southern Cross Cup and Admirals Cup yachts of around the year 1974 and there were more winches than 2 sticks could be poked at, with crews of 8+ in that size of yacht, on the foredeck, at the mast, in the pit, in the fwd cockpit, in the mid cockpit then in the aft cockpit steering who was normally the source of all problems.........
1 For the boom topping lift suggest remove it and replace with a Selden rod kicker type boom vang which provides compression capability to hold the boom up as well as operating as a normal vang - see here - we have an earlier model and it is a gem. Not cheap - there are surely other types in the market.
support.seldenmast.com/en/products/rigid_vangs_-_rodkickers/rodkicker_rigid_vang.html
2 With masthead rig and hanked on genoas/jibs you only need one genoa/jib halyard. I see via prior posts that you have a furling genoa system via Bryce at infinity Rigging - one of the real good guys and does a top job along with Peter. So maybe still you only need one genoa/jib halyard for this furling system.
3 Only need 1 kite halyard for a masthead rig.
4 Then just the kite pole topping lift.
Kite pole downhaul is not associated with the mast - just lead it along the foredeck 1/2 way back from forestay to mast and up to the kite pole downhaul bridle. Better still lead it from the mast base straight to the pole bridle then it won't need to be adjusted as much when the kite brace is adjusted.
So 3 halyards and 1 kite pole topping lift internally in the mast, 4 in total.
These should all be able to be lead aft to 2 winches each side of the companionway on the cabin top - assuming the cabin top compression strength from the mast to the winches is able to take these loads. Would expect so but would check the cabin top structure for longitudinal members as well as the (assumed as per Ramona) ply skins of the cabin top and deck.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
I have a similar set up. I'm moving the winches to the cabin top with the cleats, no jammers. Making or buying a mast slide cassette. I like the deck prisms, might have to find a couple. The genoa sail tracks raised up like that is something I'm also going to do. I'm guessing that's a plywood deck?
Yes the deck is plywood glassed over.
The deck prisms are effective. I feel I have a bright cabin area.
Thank you all for your valued comments which I am considering. I am in no hurry to change the system but when my plans are clearer I will let you know.
The first time you're scrabbling about on your hands and knees amongst those winches on a black arsed night trying to put in a reef you will wish you had the winches on the cabin top. You will be clipped on to a jackstay and the winches do provide a handhold and the occasional foot brace but you still have to carry a winch handle. I would suggest using the Selden handbook and using that as a guide.
Those deck prisms are still available. shop.classic-boat-supplies.com.au/boat-hardware/deck-lights/glass-only-for-deck-light-prism-rectangular/ Might work well just epoxied into the plywood deck on my boat.
The Selden rod kicker would make reefing easier as well. I prefer the bendy rod kicker that I have used on my last two yachts and Ricochet will get the same. Just timber with epoxy and fibreglass cloth and some carbon fibre laid up both sides. Start off with a slight bow in the timber and work up from that. The photo shows the rod kicker on Ramona.
Great thanks Ramona. Putting aside all the plurality of ropes and pulleys and cam cleats and clutches on the cabin top which are doing my head in.............assume the sail trim adjustment lines are duplicated each side so that will explain a lot..............the timber bendy rod kicker seems to be your superb shed version of this
www.bartonmarine.com/products-boomstrut.asp
If your version is not patent protected or IP are you able to provide more details? Assume you had it on the MW26 before the Currawong? So maybe with Ricochet you are going to build the 3rd size up?
If it could be advised the timber type (oregon?), cross section (is it same cross section all the way or tapered aft?), geometry of "slight bow" and if this (as I assume) is laminated into the original timber laminates like a curved tiller, glass layup (so epoxy and E glass tape wrapped all around helically?), carbon fibre both sides (assume uni or biax carbon how thick?) that would be appreciated.
Am sure there would be hundreds of persons on this forum who would be interested so they can build one straight up which will work - including me for the 13th and last yacht I will refurbish a fractional rigged quarter tonner.
Select to expand quoteCraig66 said..
Snow ski ????
I tried a snow ski and it was a complete failure. It was basically too soggy!
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Great thanks Ramona. Putting aside all the plurality of ropes and pulleys and cam cleats and clutches on the cabin top which are doing my head in.............assume the sail trim adjustment lines are duplicated each side so that will explain a lot..............the timber bendy rod kicker seems to be your superb shed version of this
www.bartonmarine.com/products-boomstrut.asp
If your version is not patent protected or IP are you able to provide more details? Assume you had it on the MW26 before the Currawong? So maybe with Ricochet you are going to build the 3rd size up?
If it could be advised the timber type (oregon?), cross section (is it same cross section all the way or tapered aft?), geometry of "slight bow" and if this (as I assume) is laminated into the original timber laminates like a curved tiller, glass layup (so epoxy and E glass tape wrapped all around helically?), carbon fibre both sides (assume uni or biax carbon how thick?) that would be appreciated.
Am sure there would be hundreds of persons on this forum who would be interested so they can build one straight up which will work - including me for the 13th and last yacht I will refurbish a fractional rigged quarter tonner.
The layout on the cabin top is actually easy to use. It looks complicated because of the twin halyards for the main, headsail and spinnaker and two topping lifts etc. 3 reefs in the main, tack lines to port. Clue lines to starboard. The 3rd reef lines are in the middle [red] for when things are serious.
The rod kicker on the MW26 was made from a section of fishing rod glued into SS tube fittings I welded up. A direct copy of the barton product. The taper of the fishing rod gave the bend.
Ramona's kicker is maple planed to a slight taper. I put a slight bend in the timber with clamps and put a couple of layups of epoxy and cloth both top and bottom but nothing on the sides. I used some carbon fibre both ends where I did not want it to bend much. I'm into archery and this is basically the same principle as a recurve bow. The sides of the strut are just painted.
With Ricochet I have been thinking of using two strips of 9mm birchwood marine ply glued together over a jig to get a slight bend. The layup of epoxy and cloth on the top and bottom. This stuff is as stiff as hell and there might be some guesswork involved in getting the amount of give right. If I start with 60mm wide strips and it's too stiff then I will just tune it by grinding down the sides to get it right.
Photo is my old MW26 quarter tonner.
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Great thanks Ramona. Putting aside all the plurality of ropes and pulleys and cam cleats and clutches on the cabin top which are doing my head in.............assume the sail trim adjustment lines are duplicated each side so that will explain a lot..............the timber bendy rod kicker seems to be your superb shed version of this
www.bartonmarine.com/products-boomstrut.asp
If your version is not patent protected or IP are you able to provide more details? Assume you had it on the MW26 before the Currawong? So maybe with Ricochet you are going to build the 3rd size up?
If it could be advised the timber type (oregon?), cross section (is it same cross section all the way or tapered aft?), geometry of "slight bow" and if this (as I assume) is laminated into the original timber laminates like a curved tiller, glass layup (so epoxy and E glass tape wrapped all around helically?), carbon fibre both sides (assume uni or biax carbon how thick?) that would be appreciated.
Am sure there would be hundreds of persons on this forum who would be interested so they can build one straight up which will work - including me for the 13th and last yacht I will refurbish a fractional rigged quarter tonner.
I spent a lot of time looking at the barton site.
Thanks for that
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Ok thanks I will probably go the fishing rod route.
The rod blank in the photo was a broken JS 80 from a game stick we all used in the '80's. Heavy duty tubular fibreglass. Plenty of choices about these days.
Ok thanks yes was thinking of a Butterworth FSU 9120 cut down. But may be hard to find now. Have some full length battens saved out of a totally delaminated kevlar mainsail sent to the tip which will epoxy laminate together well, in a staggered layup to provide the taper needed.
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Ok thanks yes was thinking of a Butterworth FSU 9120 cut down. But may be hard to find now. Have some full length battens saved out of a totally delaminated kevlar mainsail sent to the tip which will epoxy laminate together well, in a staggered layup to provide the taper needed.
What a good idea.
On Rhapsody it was two of everything, 2 main halyards one used as uphaul, two head sail halyards two mast-head spinnaker halyards and a stay sail halyard, and the spinnaker pole up & downhaul.
Of the doubles, one set led back to the cockpit one set on the mast.
I found it brilliant, yes, there is a lot on the mast, but so what?
Once sorted and kept in good order there should be no worries.
When you have them, keep them John, and maintain them. One day you will be glad you did so!
These two halyards are interesting. They come out of the mast just below the radar. They are a coarse rope attached to wire. They can only extend to the deck at the inner stay.
My guess is that they are there as a backup for the furler should it fail. A inner sail could then be hanked onto the inner stay.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
My Davidson 32 'Spindrift' came with a lot of extra kit. It is not my intention to soften it integrity as a world cruising yacht but I have two of everything on the mast. Some of the rigging is rope and some is a combination of rope and wire. I would like to simplify it. How do I choose which spinnaker line to keep and which one to remove etc. A little advice would be appreciated.
Excess Halyards
I removed the two rope to wire halyards that came out of the mast bellow the radar. I will stow them with all the other excess items I don't need but the next buyer may want.
I now have six halyards. Works well and looks better.
Interesting how the dorade boxes are situated there. Would be ideal to brace against while you're on your butt doing a reef. Is there room to do a full swing with a winch handle on the winch with the yellow rope? I like the way the prisms are installed on raised bases and the mast base is on a piece of teak. It looks like this boat might have had a teak deck at some stage and it has been removed and 'glassed over. It's the look I'm aiming for with Ricochet.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Interesting how the dorade boxes are situated there. Would be ideal to brace against while you're on your butt doing a reef. Is there room to do a full swing with a winch handle on the winch with the yellow rope? I like the way the prisms are installed on raised bases and the mast base is on a piece of teak. It looks like this boat might have had a teak deck at some stage and it has been removed and 'glassed over. It's the look I'm aiming for with Ricochet.
There is room to do a full swing with a slightly shorter winch (3cm). The 2016 survey states the boat has three layer of kauri then glassed over.
Looking forward to seeing how Ricochet progresses.
Port side ply is done on Ricochet. Working on the starboard side now but the non stop wet weather is driving me crazy. I'd post photos but it looks depressing.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Port side ply is done on Ricochet. Working on the starboard side now but the non stop wet weather is driving me crazy. I'd post photos but it looks depressing.
This weather is very changeable. Maybe we will see the sun again today
I wonder what would be involved in getting a glass worker to make up some deck prisms?
By that I mean how much time and money?
canberraglassworks.com/
Gary
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
I wonder what would be involved in getting a glass worker to make up some deck prisms?
By that I mean how much time and money?
canberraglassworks.com/
Gary
Reading the blurb I decided the easiest way is to just cough up and pay the money. The mounting adds some complexity too. I went with the shallow mount.
