Hi all,
While chatting to the lads at work, the topic of exterior wood protection came up. To cut a long story short it was suggested I use deck oil instead of varnish. I plan to use a proper marine varnish on the dinghy I'm building, just the mast, spar, boom, rudder, tiller, and dagger board.
Two questions, any recommendations for varnish and has anyone used deck oil with what results.
Thanks,
Mike.
Imho if you are coating your home verandah decking then use a decking oil but for the components you have listed on your dinghy it has to be varnish for them all. What is the dinghy design? Assume it won't be permanently on a mooring but trailed and stored out of the water all the time? Decking oil will get all over your sails and hands and clothes and stain everything for no reason.
Feast Watson the great Aust company has all the products you would need whether decking oil on the verandah or proper marine varnish. For the mast and boom suggest Spar Varnish (includes a bit more flexibility than Weatherproof), and the rest Weatherproof. I have used both and they are excellent. Get them at the big green shed. If you want to buy just one product Spar Varnish.
www.feastwatson.com.au/products/outdoor-products/?ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI6ObEvpHn8QIVWSQrCh1zcA9eEAAYASABEgKrv_D_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!4713!3!513876029510!e!!g!!feast%20watson&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6ObEvpHn8QIVWSQrCh1zcA9eEAAYASABEgKrv_D_BwE
I agree with r13 don't use home grade deck oil it goes orange and washes off quick. But don't use spar varnish. I have had excellent results with deks olje on masts and spars and even oar shafts with ring rowlocks, I get around 18 months before needing a recoat and that process is is so easy and the result so nice I find it therapeutic, looks like a high quality varnish job
A durable finish for mast and spars of oregon is Cetol. Its what most of the coutaboat masts, gaff and boom are coated with. It lasts more than a season and is easier to recoat than varnish. Note that there are different tones to the finish as the standard is a bit of an orange tint.
I use it on my mast and spars with good results.
There are many variants in the Sikkens Cetol range - have used some - assume you are talking about this at $110;
www.whitworths.com.au/sikkens-cetol-marine-wood-oil-varnish-natural-teak-946ml
compared to $62 for;
www.bunnings.com.au/feast-watson-1l-spar-marine-varnish_p1561144
If the dinghy is going to be stored undercover the cost difference may not be worth it.
Thanks for the replys , the dinghy is a 10 foot coble and will be stored undercover most of the time. I work full time so will only get out on weekends, maybe every 2nd weekend, wife willing, haha.
The timber I have is Hoop Pine, the mast is 50mm dia and 3050mm long, spar and boom both around 2400mm and 35mm dia. Or will be when I cut it to size, right now it's 55mmx155mmx 4000mm.
I'm thinking its a choice between the spar varnish and the deks olje, woko recommended. for mast, boom, and spar.
I'm having 2nd thoughts about the rudder and dagger board, maybe I should give them a couple of coats of clear epoxy.
Oh I forgot to mention the gunnels, isspar varnish or deks olje okay for them?
Thanks for your help, I appreciate it,
Mike.
No not the super expensive marine option. 1 litre for $56 from bunnings does the job:
www.bunnings.com.au/sikkens-1l-cetol-tgl-gloss-plus-clear-timber-finish_p1522546
there is also the option of a pine or light oak, teak walnut or several other tints so maybe take a sample length of timber and try a few if they let you. Seriously I've seen it on my mates boat and 3 years without a re coat was quite ok and he is very particular as he works on wooden boats full time. This is the third year for my mast and as the boat is in the yard i will do a re coat but cosmetically it doesn't need one.
Clear epoxy won't last in the sunlight unless you use a topcoat. For painted areas, first coats, a clear penetrating epoxy primer. I use Norglass Norseal. Next a few coats of Norlglass shipshape primer undercoat and top coat of Norglass Northlane Gloss which is a polyurethaine.
norglass.com.au/products
Here is a pic of my mast after a few coats of cetol:
I use my own mix of 2/3 pure tung oil, 1/3 gum turpentine, a bit of Stockholm tar and a few drops of feast & watsons terebine paint hardener for my blocks. I get the stockholm tar from the produce store as it's used for treating horses hoves. I use a simmilar mix for my boats deck but with some melted bees wax added and no terebine.
.........and the boat with the Norglass paint job above the water line and cabin sides. This was four years ago and I recoated the hull after a very light sand after three years.
Sure gunwales will be fine with spar varnish or deks olje. 2 coats of epoxy on the rudder and cboard would certainly give them good surface hardness but would recommend a coat of varnish over the top to give some UV protection to them - realise they won't be in the sun for long but epoxy needs UV protection. Make sure you don't ding the leading or bottom edges and craze the epoxy and varnish else water will ingress and black wood marks commence........easier said than done I realise.
Great thanks Guitz for clarifying the Cetol - for sure will have to try that. The blurb and data sheets indicate not for seating areas and the clear has no UV protection but the pine or light oak options do and should look good. A real concoction mix for your blocks right there eh.
the concoction is a bit of mucking around but i like exploring what works. On the deck the first times i tried, needed a re-coat every 4 months or so but my later mixes are lasting 12 months ...just. It works best if i coat the deck at the beginning of summer and the end of the season around April. The deck timbers are Iroko and come up nice with a light sand of 250 grit when needed so they arn't too smooth.
Arggh now I'm back to three choices!
Thanks though, I'll do a bit of research to find whats best for my needs on this particular job. And if local weather conditions factor into it, though with it being undercover thats probably less of a factor. It may to down to ease of use and reapplication.
Nice looking boat you have there Guitz, she'd look better with her mast I should think. What is she? Nice work on the blocks too, I've made a copy of the recipe for future use, are you willing to elaborate on how much is "a bit" of the Stockholm tar?
Thanks again everyone,
Yes I have to admit that the initial lay up of the deks 1 then the drying period then the one coat a day trip of the deks 2, does seem a bit long winded compared to 3 coats of cetol and done , but I'm in now, so I will enjoy the annual top up. Mike cetol gets a good wrap out doors 24/7 ....:
Guitz, can I ask why the oil concoction on the blocks, is it because it takes being banged around better ?
we only use allwood clear expensive but gives a great finish and will last well in the sun
Select to expand quoteMike367 said..
Arggh now I'm back to three choices!
Thanks though, I'll do a bit of research to find whats best for my needs on this particular job. And if local weather conditions factor into it, though with it being undercover thats probably less of a factor. It may to down to ease of use and reapplication.
Nice looking boat you have there Guitz, she'd look better with her mast I should think. What is she? Nice work on the blocks too, I've made a copy of the recipe for future use, are you willing to elaborate on how much is "a bit" of the Stockholm tar?
Thanks again everyone,
The stockholm tar adds a darker shade to the finish and usually its 2 teaspoons per litre. The darker colour slows the sun bleaching of the iroko deck which is a beautiful brown when first sanded. And Woko, on the blocks the tung oil soaks in fairly deep and dries hard. The blocks get banged about and with a bit of wear its easier to give them a rub and another coat of oil than it is to sand and prep a varnish type finish. I think it helps to prevent the black discolouration marks when water gets in a crack or chip of varnish or other finish that coats the surface. It does need a regular touch up re coat of oil though, often when i'm waiting for the fish to bite. You have to be careful how you store any cloth used for rubbing etc as there is a possibility of spontaneous combustion. I don't store any used rub down rags on the boat. I used to build guitars for Maton and had my own repair business years ago so mucking around with various finishes was an interest. The difference in finishing a guitar with shellac french polishing as opposed to nitrocellulous lacquer is noticeable but a less durable finish.
There are 2 types of finish Envelope (varnish) and non-envelope(oil) you can also let some timber's grey like teak. Unless you are prepared to maintain varnish and that includes fixing any little chips because once moisture gets under varnish it's finished and it's time to strip it. Tung oil is great if you mix it. I add a third citrus oil which helps get it deeper into the timber. Tung oil is a drying oil so give it time to dry. what ever you use it needs maintenance it's just a case of how much.
More fun to go Sailing
George
Select to expand quoteGuitz said..Mike367 said..
Arggh now I'm back to three choices!
Thanks though, I'll do a bit of research to find whats best for my needs on this particular job. And if local weather conditions factor into it, though with it being undercover thats probably less of a factor. It may to down to ease of use and reapplication.
Nice looking boat you have there Guitz, she'd look better with her mast I should think. What is she? Nice work on the blocks too, I've made a copy of the recipe for future use, are you willing to elaborate on how much is "a bit" of the Stockholm tar?
Thanks again everyone,
The stockholm tar adds a darker shade to the finish and usually its 2 teaspoons per litre. The darker colour slows the sun bleaching of the iroko deck which is a beautiful brown when first sanded. And Woko, on the blocks the tung oil soaks in fairly deep and dries hard. The blocks get banged about and with a bit of wear its easier to give them a rub and another coat of oil than it is to sand and prep a varnish type finish. I think it helps to prevent the black discolouration marks when water gets in a crack or chip of varnish or other finish that coats the surface. It does need a regular touch up re coat of oil though, often when i'm waiting for the fish to bite. You have to be careful how you store any cloth used for rubbing etc as there is a possibility of spontaneous combustion. I don't store any used rub down rags on the boat. I used to build guitars for Maton and had my own repair business years ago so mucking around with various finishes was an interest. The difference in finishing a guitar with shellac french polishing as opposed to nitrocellulous lacquer is noticeable but a less durable finish.
I've been wondering for a while what guitars are finished with, I know they aren't out doors 24/7 but my cheap Ashton (camp fire guitar) has had a less than ideal existence for the past 20 years and still looks good, my 74 kiosuzuk upright hasn't had the same level of abuse but has seen a lot of action and looks ok. Other fender basses live in cases and torment is limited.
ps I will try the oil concoction and compare it with deks
Most guitars are finished with nitrocellulose lacquer as was Matons when I worked there.
Some good reading here:
acousticmusic.org/research/guitar-information/guitar-finishes/
Hey Guitz, the info sheet says the TGL Gloss Plus should be used over a primer coat of HLSe.
"SIKKENS CETOL TGL GLOSS PLUS GLOSS FINISH A durable oil based coloured finish for doors, windows and frames. Provides good durability, fl exibility and transparency with minimal dirt retention. Not suitable for any walk on surfaces or seating. Must be used over a priming coat of Sikkens Cetol HLSe."
I'll be using clean timber that hasn't even had a sniff of oil or varnish, does it actually need the primer?
Thanks,
Mike.
